Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by ray245 »

Fuller thoughts:

Rise of Skywalker is what happens when you want a bunch of cool-looking (even that is debatable) happen, but couldn't care less about a plot that makes sense. Everything is resolved by plot contrivance, because lazy story-telling gets rewarded within the Hollywood system. The guy who wrote the "save Martha!" scene in BvS gets a job to write Star Wars, and this is what happens when you pair him up with a director who is essentially a teenage fanboy. What JJ Abrams did was to act like a schoolboy and back-stabbed Rian Johnson in the back creatively, instead of acting like an adult and disagreeing with him and saying one of them needs to depart for creative reasons. If you disagree with RJ, either fire him in a polite manner, or do not come back to direct Ep 9 and let another director who can respect what RJ did handle the plot.

There is no level of maturity about this movie, in terms of creative writing. There is no attempt at originality, of making a film that can reach out to people beyond the SW OT fanboys that only appreciates the superficiality of the original Star Wars. It's pure nostalgia bait, which utterly fails at reaching out to a new generation of potential fans.

Why should people care about the victory of the heroes at the end of the movie? It's entirely hollow because when Ep 10 comes out, everything will be reset. Nothing the heroes does matter because there is no consequences that matters in a story. The heroes are trapped in an eternal hell-hole that are brought back to life to entertain fans who can't grow beyond what they've watched as kids. Why should people care about the technology in Star Wars? Everything self-contradicts itself according to the need of plot. World-building and setting limitations on what your technology can or cannot do in order to tell interesting stories? Who cares!

I've said from the very beginning, that Kennedy and Abrams are the wrong person to handle the franchise. Kennedy might be an established producer, but she needed to understand you cannot create a trilogy the way she produced one-off movies. As a producer of a franchise, you absolutely need to have a clear vision ( not necessarily a clear plot arc) and communicate it with your directors. Instead, she hired a bunch of directors that could not work together as a team. She publicly voice support for Rian Johnson and said she'll help him make his own Star Wars trilogy, but yet at the same time, she approved of JJ Abrams' script for Ep 9 that undermined everything RJ did with Ep 8. She threw out the old EU, only to essentially remake some of the stupidest stories from the EU. She kept hiring the wrong directors and ending up having to fire them again and again. She created a "story group" with no powers whatsover to get the different directors on-board the same page.

She succeeded in the short-term with Star Wars, but she did long-term damage to the brand. She approved of a script that basically ( on a deeper and more thematic level) destroyed the accomplishment of the old movies. The movies she produce had made money ( except for Solo because that project never had any public interest to begin with), but in the long run, people will lose interest in Star Wars. She and Disney tried hard to break Star Wars in new markets like China, but that failed because the new movies are confusing mess to an audience that never watched the OT.

The value of the SW brand does not lie in the superficiality of the OT, namely the plot of the OT, the ship designs and the OT special effects. It's the world-building together with the characters that made Star Wars what it is. It's not Han, Luke and Leia that made Star Wars. It's what Luke, Han and Leia did in a story-universe that was engaging to all the kids growing up. It's about giving kids a big sandbox to play with, because Lucas established a clear and generally coherent universe.

This reviewer said it well:
It represents the cultural theft of Star Wars from today’s kids by today’s arrested-development-stricken adults.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmende ... 4561a5113c

The older generations in their selfishness had stolen the future of the kids today by wrecking the environment. Now they are stealing the entertainment from kids today as well.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by PREDATOR490 »

Watched it.

This film completely failed to engage me and thus I just end up nodding along with no interest. I was not even entertained.

From the very first line of the opening crawl I was put off...

Emperor Palpatine has returned... and announced it to the galaxy that he is coming for revenge.
----

Palpatine effectively self killed himself because he mass spammed everyone into rallying against him. Further, the entire plan of Palpatine was fucking stupid.

I sent Kylo to kill you because I wanted you to come to me.... what the fuck ?
You sent KYLO to kill REY because you KNEW he would not... or you sent KYLO to kill REY because you KNEW he could not... then would go through a massive convoluted bullshit to attract REY to you... so you could convince her to 'strike' you down and soul jump into her.

However, Palpatine states that Snoke was under his control... so this fucker made the link between KYLO and REY that magically allows them to teleport shit ?
Where the fuck did the 'balance' aspect of the Force go with it being a case of - Emperor has all the power of the Sith and Rey has all the power of the Jedi ?
The film ends with Rey having all the power of the Jedi and... I guess the Sith balance point just fucked off ?

Frankly, the majority of this film feels like it has no fucking idea what it is doing or consistent idea of what kind of story it is trying to finish.
As a result, you have Finn going through this stupid drama of needing to tell Rey something... and never does ?
Thanks for wasting screen time on playing that shit out ?

My biggest issue with the film.
The space battle was shit. The OT and PT at least managed SOME decent space battle candy.
The ST has failed consistently to deliver a decent space battle. It is disgustingly sad that the Mandalorian and Rogue One have both been able to achieve better space action pieces.

The entire horse assualt - Just as stupid as expected with the added element of... what was the fucking point ?
They want to attack a transmitter by landing a ground force on a space ship to attack it... rather than just have one of the many friendly ships strike the transmitter ?
They needed to take the horses because "land speeders are jammed" - Uhh okay... so is this supposed to be a common thing with space ships 'jamming' speeders ?
Could the resistance transports not have landed on or closer to the transmitter ?
Could the resistance not have just slammed one of the transports INTO the transmitter ?

The entire film is a collection of things happening that really make no sense in context of the larger established lore, capabilities or characters.
The film devloves into acting and behaving like cartoon logic applies which ultimately sucked any interest from me.

The only aspect that I found remotely emotional was Chewie coming back to find Leia dead. At this point, everyone he cares about is dead and he loses his shit. Although, Chewie might as well have been dead in this film because he seems to have just thrown in the towel and goes along with whatever the plot requires him to do. Same with R2D2... who has actually been completely irrelevant in ALL of these films.
The irony, is I feel the same way about this entire new Star Wars. They have consistently fucked up each of these movies in their own way by killing characters and any sense of narrative to the point I just throw in the towel and have no real interest or investment in what is happening.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by ray245 »

Here's another that's pointless.

The one year time-gap. What's the fucking point of having a time gap? The story could easily have taken place right after TLJ and it would have made no difference whatsover.

The OT and the ST made use of the time gap between the movies to let you know there were plenty of stuff that took place off-screen, and you can see the characters mature and act differently as they become older. What's the point of having a one year time gap if you don't know how to make use of it?
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by LadyTevar »

Fuck all of you.

My only bitch was the pacing was rushed. That's it. The rest? the "Pandering" as you called it? Fuck all'y'all. I loved it.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by ray245 »

LadyTevar wrote: 2019-12-19 09:50pm Fuck all of you.

My only bitch was the pacing was rushed. That's it. The rest? the "Pandering" as you called it? Fuck all'y'all. I loved it.
Ok boomer.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by blahface »

Just got back from it. Not as bad as The Last Jedi, but still pretty bad. The Leia parts just felt weird. It reminded me of the "Return of Chef" South Park episode. They didn't really explain how Palpatine came back and he was also way too powerful. Rey being a Palpatine is fan service to make up for Last Jedi and they should have just accepted her parents being nobodies instead of just trying to fix it. Overall, there was just too much going on.

I believe Poe said something about why they couldn't pull a Holdo, but I missed it. Did anyone else catch why?

Edit: I guess I should be thankful though for no time travel.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Vympel »

LadyTevar wrote: 2019-12-19 09:50pm Fuck all of you.
Well I assume you're just teasing.
My only bitch was the pacing was rushed. That's it. The rest? the "Pandering" as you called it? Fuck all'y'all. I loved it.
It was pandering. That shit on Ach'To was some of the downright rudest, most insulting film-making I've ever seen in my life. "A Jedi's weapon should be treated with more respect"? That is some serious fuck you, blatantly unprofessional, grovel to angry fans level writing. And it only got worse until the scene ended. You could almost hear JJ and Terrio, bowing and scraping, "do you see what we did?! We're so sorry that Luke threw the lightsaber behind him at the beginning of the last film! Does this make you happy??"

It's some of the the most hacky, reprehensible, OOU things I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie, bar none
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by loomer »

It was okay. I went in expecting a bad film, got drunk, and enjoyed myself.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Darth Yan »

Dumb but fun. Visuals were great and there were a few individually brilliant moments

Still better than last Jedi though
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Mange »

ray245 wrote: 2019-12-19 06:22pm What JJ Abrams did was to act like a schoolboy and back-stabbed Rian Johnson in the back creatively, instead of acting like an adult and disagreeing with him and saying one of them needs to depart for creative reasons. If you disagree with RJ, either fire him in a polite manner, or do not come back to direct Ep 9 and let another director who can respect what RJ did handle the plot.
To be frank, that is what Johnson did to Abrams as well. Johnson not only threw out story elements and plot points from TFA, he also ignored the treatment for VIII that Abrams wrote. Abrams has expressed his dissatisfaction with how Johnson handled Luke and in the past week Abrams also criticized the storytelling in TLJ (as did Boyega and Ridley).

That doesn't negate the fact that Abrams is a hack...
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

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Mange wrote: 2019-12-20 02:34am To be frank, that is what Johnson did to Abrams as well. Johnson not only threw out story elements and plot points from TFA, he also ignored the treatment for VIII that Abrams wrote. Abrams has expressed his dissatisfaction with how Johnson handled Luke and in the past week Abrams also criticized the storytelling in TLJ (as did Boyega and Ridley).

That doesn't negate the fact that Abrams is a hack...
There's basically no real evidence at all that Abrams wrote anything resembling a coherent 'treatment' for VIII (literally just Daisy Ridely saying she thought there was one), but even if there was, the idea that he 'ignored' something we know nothing about is at all equivalent to this incredibly on-the-nose exercise in pandering and missing-the-point snide refutation is impossible for me to take seriously.

What we do know is that Abrams was EP and had meetings with Johnson and Kennedy about Jonhson's ideas for Episode VIII and by all accounts gave Johnson his blessing:

https://twitter.com/jgrebes/status/1204 ... 75969?s=20

If Abrams wanted his ideas followed, he should've done VIII and IX, like he was originally offered and which he declined.

It's a particularly absurd narrative given that the "Rey is a Palpatine" idea is so clearly a confected, incoherent asspull that could never have been his original intent, and couldn't even work at all if say, Snoke hadn't been killed in TLJ.

There is virtually nothing in TFA that TLJ 'threw out'. Fan theories != TFA itself. Like, the idea that Abrams had any idea what to do with Luke is a bad joke. This guy says he was convinced to do Episode VII based on the question "who is Luke Skywalker" and then went ahead and turned in a film where the guy didn't even appear in the movie. Mark Hamill said that when he asked Abrams for direction on what to do in the final scene of TFA, how to play his reaction to Daisy Ridley, Abrams had no clue. And I'm supposed to care about his dissatisfaction about how Johnson handled Luke? The character he wrote as having abandoned the galaxy because he felt responsible for what happened to Ben Solo*? LOL.

It's incredible how it's somehow Johnson's fault that he took TFA seriously and didn't just create some absurd TROS style retcon bullshit that actually Luke was off on Ach'To making a New Jedi Order or something and he allowed a big stupid years long easter egg hunt for a map where he was only rumored to be because of ... reasons?

* More liklely, Kasdan wrote, in hindsight

EDIT: also, Ridley never criticised TLJ's storytelling AFAIK. That was a dishonest framing of her words re: the uncertainty after Trevorrow's sacking
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by loomer »

Luke's turn in TLJ was a satisfying conclusion to the jedi arc, anyway, fan whinging aside. The moment with the lightsaber trying to take a shot back at it was just ridiculous.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Darth Yan »

The thing is Luke was TOO jaded. In Knightfall Mark Hamill plays a character named Talus. He's a surly asshole but he's clearly a good man who wants to do good. People outright said that Luke would have been better if he were a bit more like Talus (I.E. kinda surly and jaded but still determined to fight the good fight rather than just crawling under a rock.) TLJ's problem was that it was so focused on themes it did so at the expense of story. As a result watching it a theaters felt like a slog. Leia floating in space was also deeply stupid (a friend of mine who LIKED the movie said he agreed that that part was utterly stupid)
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Gandalf »

LadyTevar wrote: 2019-12-19 09:50pm Fuck all of you.

My only bitch was the pacing was rushed. That's it. The rest? the "Pandering" as you called it? Fuck all'y'all. I loved it.
How would you describe it, if not pandering?
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by loomer »

Darth Yan wrote: 2019-12-20 03:12am The thing is Luke was TOO jaded. In Knightfall Mark Hamill plays a character named Talus.
Why? He seemed quite reasonably cynical to me, given what took place and happened to his literal life's work.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by AniThyng »

So I'll just pretend Rose and Finn agreed to just be friends off screen, huh.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by NecronLord »

ray245 wrote: 2019-12-19 10:17pm
LadyTevar wrote: 2019-12-19 09:50pm Fuck all of you.

My only bitch was the pacing was rushed. That's it. The rest? the "Pandering" as you called it? Fuck all'y'all. I loved it.
Ok boomer.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by AniThyng »

That scene where old admiral what's his name kneels before old Palps and declares he will serve him as he did in the old war was a nice touch. As was the appearent acknowledgement that the first order and final order's mooks are very.. diverse. Like how often are literal guard mooks basically 50/50 gender wise. .. Well Skyrim, I guess.

Pity the movie also made sure we knew how most of the poor conscripts who didn't rebel presumably due with the fleet, but that's war.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by blahface »

Wasn't Anakin's lightsaber destroyed in TLJ? How did Rey get it back?
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by ray245 »

Plot magics.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by NecronLord »

Doesn't the prop have it obviously welded back together with a plate on it?
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Darth Yan »

Or she just repaired it.

Anyway I'm NOT opposed to Spoiler
Palpatine coming back IF they explain it. Rey being his granddaughter didn't bother me as much as I thought it would; having Palpatine's house be related shows that blood is not important and there is a delicious irony in the house of evil becoming a house of light. However I think that a better way to kill him would be the way Publius did it in a test of wills or his first death in dark empire. He furiously tries to destroy the rebel fleet, but Rey uses the light side of the force to cut him off from his power. Palpatine is than obliterated by the sheer power he himself unleashed, obliterating his soul and ensuring that this time nothing is coming back.
I think that what SHOULD have happened is that the First Order are basically a band of terrorists. They don't have a death star; they're basically guerrillas trying to restore the Empire. Given today's era making them stand ins for the alt right WOULD be topical and it makes sense that the Empire wouldn't want to give up its privileges. Hell you can even have it that some former imperials adapted to the new republic.

Hell this fanfic did Rise of Skywalker better. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13351316/1 ... -Skywalker
Spoiler
Basically Palpatine bound his soul to a holocron in the event something would happen. He cons Ren into taking him when he needs help to defeat Snoke and uses Ren as a meat sack.
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by ray245 »

One thing I find boring is the light-saber duel. Oh god it is utterly devoid of any emotions or tensions whatsoever. There's not even any dramatic music playing in the background.

JJ Abrams has utterly wasted the talents of John Williams. Do we even hear any new themes from John Williams? Because what JJ Abrams did was to essentially reuse the tracks from previous films. You don't even need John Williams for the movie!
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by blahface »

NecronLord wrote: 2019-12-20 11:53am Doesn't the prop have it obviously welded back together with a plate on it?
Am I remembering wrong, or wasn't the broken lightsaber on the ship with Kylo when she left?
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Re: Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

Post by Anacronian »

So Rey appropriate the Millennium Falcon from Han Solo, Luke's light saber, Leia's Light Saber, The Tattoine homestead and finally the Skywalker name?

Jeez I want her as a divorce lawyer.
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