Here we have another example of a fanboy of a fanboy who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Kane Starkiller wrote:Jim Raynor wrote:Which review are you talking about? Because in TPM, the one which I have gone through, he argues exactly that. He pretends to be Palpatine, and supposedly improves the story by ordering the Trade Federation to completely admit their hostile intentions and send Qui-Gon back to Coruscant to report them. It's idiotic.
How on God's green Earth is it idiotic from Palpatines perspective? He WANTS there to be an incident and a war. Therefore it would be in his interest to tell the Trade Federation to tell the Jedi they will invade the planet and send them back. It makes no sense for him to have the Jedi killed and then for Nute Gunray to pretend that nothing happened.
Have you watched the actual movie? Did you bother trying to remember
anything before you decided to post this trash?
The Trade Federation was reluctant to follow through with the plans to invade Naboo. Palpatine offered to use his influence over the Senate to protect them from the law so that they would go through with it. The treaty was a legal loophole to get them off the hook. A legal loophole might screw up the courts, but people will STILL know that something dirty had gone down. Even with the Trade Federation escaping the law (for a while at least), Palpatine would be able to point out how corrupt and useless the government is. God, it's not that hard. Young children understood this damn plot.
As Stoklasa (and you in this post) are arguing, Palpatine should've ordered the Trade Federation to
openly confess to military aggression, and not even TRY to dodge the law. Why the hell would the Trade Federation screw themselves over for him then?
On the other hand, and the reviewer points this out in other reviews, there is never any motivation given for why Trade Federation goes along with Sidious and ESPECIALLY why Nute Gunray would agree to kill off two Jedi Knights, the official representative from the Chancellor. You don't want to talk? Fine don't talk and send them back. What fucking sense is there to kill them?
If you were paying attention, you would've realized that the Jedi were
not there to "talk". Qui-Gon calls the Trade Federation "cowards" outright and states that the negotiations would be short. The Jedi were sent there to
intimidate the Trade Federation into backing down, possibly with violent force. The Trade Federation even knew it, and clearly expressed their fears to Palpatine. Palpatine gave them the momentary courage to fight. Palpatine also says that they will "accelerate" their plans by landing troops on Naboo. Accelerate existing plans, not launching an attack at the spur of a moment.
The Trade Federation was already in on the plan to invade the planet, probably seeing that action as profitable.
Jim Raynor wrote:At the end of TPM Nute Gunray is told he'd lose his "trade franchise". What does that mean if Trade Federation is actually some kind of state with its own planets? Lucas couldn't even figure out whether this was some kind of company or a political organization.
A brief look at the dictionary gives multiple definitions of "franchise," including these:
-"a privilege of a public nature conferred on an individual, group, or company by a government"
-"a privilege arising from the grant of a sovereign or government, or from prescription, which presupposes a grant"
-"a legal immunity or exemption from a particular burden, exaction, or the like"
The "trade franchise" was obviously some kind of deal or special arrangement that the Trade Federation had with the government, which made business more profitable. You don't even need the above dictionary definitions to tell what it is during the movie, just from the context.
TPM clearly states that the Trade Federation controlled territory, and shows that it has Senate representation. It's another group of worlds in the Republic, heavily reliant on the trade business.
Jim Raynor wrote:Are you for real? She successfully led an uprising against him and humiliated him. A teenage girl outwitted him and held him at gunpoint. People in real life have developed murderous obsessions over less than that.
You're not paying attention: What does that have to do with the decision to leave or not leave the Reupblic? He demanded her head in return for joining the separatists and that doesn't make a lick of sense. He wants her dead? Fine sell one of those huge donut ships hire 50,000 bounty hunters and have her killed. Why the fuck is he pestering Dooku about it?
Murderous obsessions are supposed to make sense now? And it doesn't matter if someone else can kill Padme, the fact was that
Dooku had given his word to kill her.
Watch the damn scene. Right before the line you're nitpicking, Dooku privately tells Gunray that "
We must persuade the Commerce Guild and Corporate Alliance to sign the treaty." Gunray and the Trade Federation weren't outsiders that Dooku was trying to win over right then and there; they were already involved in plotting the creation of the Confederacy. The decision had already been made.
Less than a minute later, in the same scene, the various leaders sit down and declare their allegiance to the Confederacy.
Without Gunray even saying anything, Dooku states "Our friends from the Trade Federation have pledged their support." Gunray, was just obsessively whining like a bitch, not seriously negotiating.
I can't believe people are willing to nitpick a few throwaway words like this. But things hold up even against the nitpicking.
I'm not talking about "people" but Separatist LEADERSHIP. Who gives a fuck how strong he is and that he has kool four hands with lightsabers? That doesn't give you political power.
Nor did he HAVE political power. Read damn it, I dealt with all of this in my previous post. The same previous post that you are dealing with
this time. The Separatist leaders directly questioned his ability in front of everyone. Grievous stood up for himself, but did
nothing back to them. The entire meeting was about how to best protect those same Separatist leaders.
Either way, concepts such as civilian rule, who properly wields political power, etc. tend to break down during desperate total wars, especially if the war is going badly. Dooku was dead, the fleet was routed at Coruscant, the Republic's Outer Rim Sieges had been "going well," and the Separatist leaders were on the run for their very lives. Of course a strong military leader is going to start taking charge.
Talk about a dumb thing to bitch about.
How did Sidious get such power that he can eliminate the Separatists literaly with a press of a button when he no longer needs them? What those Separatists on Mustafar are the entirety of the civilian leadership? And there is an TURN_OFF_ENTIRE_MILITARY switch on Mustafar? Talk about fucking dumb.
What's fucking dumb is your inability to comprehend what is said onscreen. Sidious doesn't have a "power" or a "button" or a "switch" to turn off the Separatists. He tells Anakin to "send the message to the ships of the Trade Federation: all droid units must shut down immediately."
Send the message, NOT push the button. Anakin sent an official message out from a high level command post.
Furthermore, right before he was slain, Nute Gunray says "The war is over. Lord Sidious promised us peace!" The war had been going badly, the Separatist leaders probably didn't even want to fight much longer, but Gunray was under the impression that Sidious could produce an acceptable settlement. It's not unlikely that the Separatist leaders had
already sent out previous messages to their military units telling them to prepare to stand down.
This is the ultimate problem for the Trade Federation and Separatists: they were never shown to exist as an realistic entity with leaders and population and planets but rather just a tool that Palpatine used and could literaly switch off when he didn't need them anymore. With Rebellion you actually got to know them as an actual entity that went beyond Doddona, Mon Mothma or Luke Skywalker; it had a life of its own.
This is the problem with nitpicking fanboys. They unnecessarily play up problems, or even imagine problems that don't exist in the newer movies. Yet they look at the older movies with rose-tinted glasses and play up favorable things that didn't really exist or weren't present in any significant way.
"With Rebellion you actually got to know them as an actual entity that went beyond Doddona, Mon Mothma or Luke Skywalker; it had a life of its own." Yeah, like how. The Rebel Alliance was a bunch of guys who died on one ship at the beginning of ANH, one base with a number of fighter pilots at the end of ANH, one base on a frozen rock in TESB, and a bunch of warships in ROTJ. I'd like for you to explain how the Rebellion was so fleshed out, with "a life of its own."