StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Read through the entire thing. Thank you for making it and writing!

The epilogues actually made me choke up a bit. Very fine writing, thank you for a great story!

If anyone has any questions about what I figure happened further in the timeline, feel free to ask. And thank you for your kind remarks.

If Cascadia can afford a Nimitz-class equivalent it has to be a well-off country

So what happened ? I assume a WW2-like global war, Germany and Japan against the others after the classic breakup of the Danube Monarchy, with parts acquired by Germany and Poland and the Rest balkanized.

An excellent 'let's play'.

Raesene wrote:If Cascadia can afford a Nimitz-class equivalent it has to be a well-off country

So what happened ? I assume a WW2-like global war, Germany and Japan against the others after the classic breakup of the Danube Monarchy, with parts acquired by Germany and Poland and the Rest balkanized.

I would assume that France would either have enacted serious pressure upon Germany to get Alsace-Lorraine (at least the majority french-speaking parts) back or made war upon them at some time.


But yes, overall an excellent LP.

Raesene wrote:If Cascadia can afford a Nimitz-class equivalent it has to be a well-off country

So what happened ? I assume a WW2-like global war, Germany and Japan against the others after the classic breakup of the Danube Monarchy, with parts acquired by Germany and Poland and the Rest balkanized.

Yes. Germany and Japan, at the least, form the Axis. Italy might have still become a fascist state, but much later than historical. I figured that between the stresses of the Great Depression and Franz Ferdinand fighting his own monarchist supporters to get his son on the throne, Danubia splits apart. Although it's possible that what we get is an Austria under Otto and Maximilian hailed as ruler in Croatia or Bohemia/Czechoslovakia. Kiev and the Ukrainian provinces probably get eaten by the USSR and Poland, which also asserts control of the historic Polish frontier on the Carpathians.

Of course, this means that Eastern and Central Europe no longer has a consolidated power that can confront the rise of Adolf Hitler.

Japan behaves pretty much as historic. Pearl Harbor probably happens in a similar fashion, as a means to knock out the Cascadian Battle Fleet, with an even stronger position of "they'll sue for peace". The US is probably brought into the war by the undeclared naval war with Germany and Pearl Harbor, plus attacks on US shipping by both Axis parties.

I had in mind that Rafael Garrett Sr. (the eldest son) becomes the big hero of the Pacific War, but I was contemplating his career ending more tragically at the hands of a kamikaze pilot.

Thomas also plays a role in WWII, but not in the war aspect. In 1938, the renewed Japanese war on China and the failure of Green and the Democrat-Socialist coalition to rearm leads to a sweep in the provincial and national elections, with a new Liberal-led government to drive rearmament. Thomas gets the blame of being an appeaser for his role in the Port Arthur Treaty (or Dalian Treaty) and not only loses his Cabinet post as Foreign Secretary but is kicked out of the Senate by the new Liberal Party governor of Upper California. With his political career in tatters, Thomas gets a sympathy appointment as Cascadian Ambassador to France.

It's in France that he makes his one major contribution to the history of Europe in "The Great War": he becomes one of those diplomats who issued visas to Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis. Cascadian visas, and tickets on Cascadian ships, get thousands of Jews out of Nazi Europe, up to and after the Fall of France, and I figure he and Anne-Marie take active roles in protecting the refugees who get their help, up to and including riding in trains and keeping Nazi authorities or Vichy French state authorities from barring the refugees' departure (claiming the documentation is fake, etc.). The Nazi protests and pressure on this TL's version of Vichy inevitably result in the Vichy government requesting his immediate recall in the last half of 1941.

After the war, Thomas ends up in the House again, and will be an Attorney-General for a Cabinet in the 1950s before his health forces him to retire. I imagine he passes away within ten years of the final epilogue. Whether he lives long enough to be declared one of the Righteous Among The Nations is up to debate.

Sophie, as some of the fluff has shown, is a historian for the rest of her life. I haven't decided whether or not she re-marries. I figure she dies by the early-to-mid 1980s.

Gabriela and Isabela maintain their ranch and remain partners until their deaths in the 1980s.

Thanas wrote:
I would assume that France would either have enacted serious pressure upon Germany to get Alsace-Lorraine (at least the majority french-speaking parts) back or made war upon them at some time.


But yes, overall an excellent LP.

Thank you for the praise, regardless of the RNG constantly setting me up to fight Germany. It could have gone other ways, I swear! I mean, I once had a test game as Cascadia where I fought only France... four times, but the RNG and luck kept making Germany the opponent. Honestly, I suspect I'd have had more big naval fights if it hadn't been Germany so often, the Germans are set up with the Cautious trait for AI control and don't commit to battle as often.

As for the Alsace bit, I did mention it, but now that I think about it I really should have made France more active on that to explain why the Prussians didn't get ROFL-stomped in the rebellion. Although I did have the 1910 war end with Francophone Lorraine and Metz being ceded back to France. Granted, I wrote that months ago....

Anyway, I'm glad so many people enjoyed this LP. Thank you for your kind words.

It makes little sense to for Germany to go Nazi in this timeline though, seeing as the Junkers more or less loathed them and the communists seem rather more popular than they were in OTL.

Thank you for the praise, regardless of the RNG constantly setting me up to fight Germany. It could have gone other ways, I swear! I mean, I once had a test game as Cascadia where I fought only France... four times, but the RNG and luck kept making Germany the opponent. Honestly, I suspect I'd have had more big naval fights if it hadn't been Germany so often, the Germans are set up with the Cautious trait for AI control and don't commit to battle as often.

Eh tbh I don't mind, having crushed the USA multiple times in LPs before.

Thanas wrote:It makes little sense to for Germany to go Nazi in this timeline though, seeing as the Junkers more or less loathed them and the communists seem rather more popular than they were in OTL.

My thought was that it was the German Civil War at the end of the 1920s time period that clinched the Nazi rise. The Communists lose a great deal of popularity over the peace they signed and the junkers also suffer as a result - the Nazis end up playing the balance in the early 30s as their popularity in the vote rises, allowing them to take power by playing the factions.

Of course, this also means that Hitler's rise to power is far less likely if not for the Cascadian Hawks led by Abernathy pushing for another punitive peace that stripped Germany of its empire and inflicted further reparations upon its finances. In short, the history books of this world will be blaming Abernathy and the Cascadian government of the late 1920s for the rise of Hitler, much like how our modern historical accounts tend to pin some blame on the behavior of the Allied governments over Versailles. And once I had all the events done to compile a story with... that was, yes, very much the intention.

If I hadn't had that late war with Germany, the East Prussian revolt event, and the Communist takeover of Germany (as made clear by the new title of "General Secretary" for Germany's leader) and the Communists making that punitive peace deal, I think I would've ended up not having Hitler rise to power, because as you say, it doesn't make sense. But with a Communist Party discredited for an unpopular peace imposed by a bullying country and the junkers looking like twits for letting that happen, the Nazis presenting themselves as another alternative to a faltering Republic makes more sense to me.

Forgot this.

Thanas wrote:

Thank you for the praise, regardless of the RNG constantly setting me up to fight Germany. It could have gone other ways, I swear! I mean, I once had a test game as Cascadia where I fought only France... four times, but the RNG and luck kept making Germany the opponent. Honestly, I suspect I'd have had more big naval fights if it hadn't been Germany so often, the Germans are set up with the Cautious trait for AI control and don't commit to battle as often.

Eh tbh I don't mind, having crushed the USA multiple times in LPs before.

I was following your EUIV and Victoria LPs, so I know.

I think the US is the one power I've fought the least in my Cascadia games. And I've only fought the British once or twice, and at least once was when I was just out to have fun and was playing a "Super Cascadia" game (basically a second created country file that gives Cascadia more game-start resources and more territories, I made it to have fun with being able to build even larger fleets early on). France, Japan, and Germany tend to be my usual adversaries.

Great LP, and great story. Thank you.

Steve wrote:If I hadn't had that late war with Germany, the East Prussian revolt event, and the Communist takeover of Germany (as made clear by the new title of "General Secretary" for Germany's leader) and the Communists making that punitive peace deal, I think I would've ended up not having Hitler rise to power, because as you say, it doesn't make sense. But with a Communist Party discredited for an unpopular peace imposed by a bullying country and the junkers looking like twits for letting that happen, the Nazis presenting themselves as another alternative to a faltering Republic makes more sense to me.

Pretty much disagree with that as the Nazis revolted just as much as the Junkers, so not much to go for them either. I think it far more likely the monarchy would be restored instead.

But hey it is your story.

Since you're taking questions, what happens to my guy?

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Since you're taking questions, what happens to my guy?

He becomes Emperor of the Cascadian Imperial Dictatorship and has a million worlds each in a million universes to command.

For the Emperor!

Okay, okay. I imagine they name the second Garrett-class supercarrier after you. El Presidente.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Since you're taking questions, what happens to my guy?

I figure Wallace remains Chief of Naval Operations for much of the decade before retiring due to health and age, although it's not a happy time for him. After the start of the Great Depression, the new elections bring in a Democrat-Socialist coalition government in 1930 that vigorously slashes military spending. Most of the fleet is forced into inactive reserve or outright mothballed status. The Port Arthur Treaty with Japan effectively gives the Japanese control over the Liaotung Peninsula and further cuts Cascadian military presence in East Asia. He'll spend his time in office fighting with the Government to keep at least some military force viable, and it probably wears him out.

You can decide if Wallace would get fed up enough to resign by 1938; if so, he might have stood for an election as a Liberal or a Hawk Democrat during the 1938 election, which smashed the Democrat-Socialist Government and brought in a Liberal-Conservative one that rearmed in time for the war with Japan. If so, I can see him being named Naval Secretary in the new Government and serving in that post for the Pacific War. Alternatively, the wartime President elected in 1940 (I haven't named him) may have brought him out of retirement to fill a role similar to the one historically held by FADM William Leahy (who served as Roosevelt's military Chief of Staff).

And sarcasm aside, I too imagine the second big CVN is named the Phillip Wallace.

As for how long he lives... I imagine he passes away by the late 40s. He made Captain in the mid 00s, so he was likely born sometime in the 1860s.

Thanas wrote:Pretty much disagree with that as the Nazis revolted just as much as the Junkers, so not much to go for them either. I think it far more likely the monarchy would be restored instead.

But hey it is your story.

Hitler didn't outright "revolt" until after the Communist takeover and the humiliating peace treaty that the KDP signed, and he did so as part of a larger right-wing anti-Communist coalition. I figured this would keep the stigma off, unlike the junker group and the KDP. As for how he gets into power I imagined it would be because, like IRL, the conservatives and other non-junker forces hostile to the Left figure they can manage him.

Granted, I'm not an absolute expert on German interbellum history, but we're also in a timeline where Germany fought multiple wars in the first thirty years of the decade and never managed more than a compromise stalemate, but yet didn't have the same all-at-once humiliation of the OTL Versailles Treaty. Throw in enough changes and at some point all I can do is shrug my shoulders and put in something. Although I do admit I am a sucker for second order-counterfactuals.

Steve wrote:

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Since you're taking questions, what happens to my guy?

I figure Wallace remains Chief of Naval Operations for much of the decade before retiring due to health and age, although it's not a happy time for him. After the start of the Great Depression, the new elections bring in a Democrat-Socialist coalition government in 1930 that vigorously slashes military spending. Most of the fleet is forced into inactive reserve or outright mothballed status. The Port Arthur Treaty with Japan effectively gives the Japanese control over the Liaotung Peninsula and further cuts Cascadian military presence in East Asia. He'll spend his time in office fighting with the Government to keep at least some military force viable, and it probably wears him out.

You can decide if Wallace would get fed up enough to resign by 1938; if so, he might have stood for an election as a Liberal or a Hawk Democrat during the 1938 election, which smashed the Democrat-Socialist Government and brought in a Liberal-Conservative one that rearmed in time for the war with Japan. If so, I can see him being named Naval Secretary in the new Government and serving in that post for the Pacific War. Alternatively, the wartime President elected in 1940 (I haven't named him) may have brought him out of retirement to fill a role similar to the one historically held by FADM William Leahy (who served as Roosevelt's military Chief of Staff).

And sarcasm aside, I too imagine the second big CVN is named the Phillip Wallace.

As for how long he lives... I imagine he passes away by the late 40s. He made Captain in the mid 00s, so he was likely born sometime in the 1860s.

I think I'd take the second option, rather than standing for Parliament since a) I hate politics and b) I think it would fit Adm. Garrett's dictum that the Navy should be apolitical. And I get me a big damn boat too, sweet

Note that the dictum wouldn't apply to retired officers, his view was that while on active service, an officer should remain politically neutral. Granted, that would probably leach over into retirement periods.

But okay, sure, Wallace becomes Cascadia's Leahy.

I can dig that, but on a personal level the idea of politics makes my skin crawl, so yeah, the Leahy route works

So I also got Rule the Waves, but it's Rule the Waves II, that extends things out to 1950.

Currently playing 1920-1950 as COMMUNIST RUSSIA.

General Secretary Badanov shares Admiral Shepilov's predilection for submarines, and with the outbreak of war between the Soviet Union and British Empire in October 1924, the Glorious SOVIET SOCIALIST STATE has 41 submarines in service (to Britain's 27).

Yeah, I've not tried RTW2, been busy with other stuff.

Ultimate Admiral:Dreadnoughts could also be a good basis for one of these once they get the campaign mode working.

Definitely been waiting on Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts, hopefully a good multiplayer option pops up at some point.

You are aware what kind of designs will pop up if you let THIS crowd loose on Ultimate Admiral?

Aladeeeeeen!