SMAC in review

[Enforcer Talen]

So, this game has been out about 12 years. It still holds up well; it’s one of the only non Blizzard games that I play consistently. My question is, how has your play style changed over the course of its life? Obviously, we’ve all had gaps of years where we don’t play and then come back to it; how has that impacted your performance and viewpoints in the game?

I came into it about twelve or thirteen years old. My strategy was lifted from Civ2, the prior game that I had played a lot. I chose the hive, had the home city build a colony pod, and then rovers. Each city following did the same. I hadn’t really gotten the feel for facilities yet, so my rover swarm did its best. I got tech primarily through conquest. Even if each city build one rover every twenty turns, I had 30 cities, and that was often enough to knock down the AI factions on easy mode.

I got to about talent difficulty doing this, some three years later. Morgan was across the sea, with perimeter defenses, sensors, mobile reinforcements, and good armor. I think I eventually beat him, but it took about 75 game turns (and I had five times as many cities). After seeing what was in the conquered territory, I had a sudden change in playstyle.

I played a Momentum Morgan; many cities of low population, low garrisons, and a tech rate fueled by the economy. Free market/wealth was my sexy thing, and a couple rovers and needle jets with chaos guns could clear the map pretty quickly. I preferred conquest victories, occasionally did economic, and had never seen the transcendence game. I built formers, but kept them automated.

I played mainly to wonder monger; ie, get every secret project build or captured. Once you have those, the cities themselves don’t have to be built that well; the projects do most of the work. I also had an intermittent interest in trade; watching planet busters go boom was more fun, and I hadn’t learned how to suspend the charter yet.

In my early twenties, I asked around on sdnet for ideas, improved performance some. I started using formers individually, to plant forests and connect everything with roads. They didn’t do much else. I also learned to use rover nerve gas, which cleared up enemies nicely. As I played on higher difficulties, the longer the game went, and the more interesting tech became. Cloning Vats became my favorite project, and I conquered enemies with jump shock troops, choppers, swarms of Chiron. I could keep to a free market that way, I didn’t need a large army for that.

Archaic Eternal was nice enough to help me out at this point, talk to me about intermediate terra forming. Making use of boreholes and farms was the main thing I got from him, which improved my game dramatically. I started to play somewhat competitively with a few friends, and my industry was unreal compared to theirs.

Archaic also showed me the Velociryx guide, which blew my mind. I’ve read it a dozen times over the last few years, and am reading it again for review. I just bought the SMAX expansion, and SirRedK and I have played ten or so games up to the flight tech. My new favorite faction is the free drones, and his is the Nautilus Pirates.

It’s been about a year since I talked to Archaic, so I don’t remember the fine points. I usually get the weather paradigm, and build boreholes from there, but the minutiae on condensers, mirrors, aquifers, and the rest are lost on me. This last game I mostly built the farm/mine/road or the farm/solar/road, with a few boreholes or forests scattered here and there.

My bullet points for playing at the moment are as follows.

Game settings I like: No aliens, no conquest victory, no stealing tech when conquering, no do or die, slow tech rate, high mountains, worms, nutrients, large or huge map.

Initial set up: In multiplayer, I rush build colony pods out of my capital until it’s down to 1. New cities are a former/garrison/garrison/recycling/crèche. I usually rush the former and the first garrison, and I like to build two garrisons because I forget later.

Early terra forming: Every city connected by roads. Two forests each. I read in the strategy guide you can built cities on a road/sensor, which sounds sexy. I like the farm/**/road button, but I’m still learning when and how to best use it. I usually have one former on auto sensors, and two on auto fungus.

Diplomacy: I like factions far away to be at war with each other, and the nearby ones to be at peace with me. I try to infiltrate datalinks as soon as possible, and trade techs without particular discrimination.

Secret Projects: Weather Paradigm, Human Genome. Empath Guild if I can get it, but Red usually gets it first. The guide recommends total destruction to get rid of it if I can’t keep it.

Weak points: I’m mediocre at terra forming, and have no idea how best to use specialists.

[JonB]

I've always tended towards Lal or Zhakrov myself. Always been an infrastructure hog, and Wonder Rusher.

My play style has always been 'quality not quantity' in my society. I'll have fewer cities than other factions, but I tend to focus on building them, and thier surrounding terrain up. Weather Control is a must, as was the Virtual World.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to reload it.

[The_Saint]

Been playing this the past couple of weeks (been looking for what might work under Win7)

In my early days pre SMAX I played Zakharov, researched up the tech tree to a lead with a few cities with many facilities and stormed across the world with only a few high tech units...

Then with SMAX I moved completely offshore to the Pirates... with an ocean based economy I can outstrip most onshore economies... and because early in the game you can move a fair way around planet I set bases up far and wide... usually in pairs to provide some mutual support.

Dominate the oceans, raise sea levels (if possible) and island hop with a few high tech ground units with many fleet support assets providing blockades/fire support. Depending on how the economy is going I'll upgrade units that are falling behind but the emphasis is on quantity of parity or near parity sea units.

Of course once I get missiles then I create my loathed (in multiplayer) SSBN's and then just remove whole islands/continents at a time. (Also works as a great threat/MAD trigger in multiplayer.

[adam_grif]

See my signature for my favorite faction.

The only thing that bugs me about playing the game is that the same animations are used regardless of weapon type and so on. Otherwise it's great. Some of the elements of the game still confuse me though, I don't really understand how they work.

[Samuel]

Name then and we can help. What I hate? Microing for terraforming. Also be nice if you could select what you wanted and you were told the necesary tech. Finally, the way the system screws up when you chea... edit games.

[open_sketchbook]

I used to play University pretty much exclusively until I realized how overpowered that faction is; by getting to Secrets of the Human Brain first and then getting the jump on every wonder you could, you'd start on a solid two tech advantage. With your free network nodes, you could widen that gap with xenotech, and by grabbing 'formers and sea bases ahead of schedual you could widen your industrial base and grab landmarks like Mount Planet, the pile of alien towers, and that big area of kelp while everyone else is still floundering in their deployment zones. In no time at all you could outpace and outtech every other faction, being a tier or more above everyone else easily the whole game. I've played games where I built literately every wonder because I could start them twenty turns ahead. Furthermore, both the weaknesses of the University can be skirted by grabbing projects, which you'll be able to do effortlessly because you'll be able to start before anyone else. When this goes perfectly, you could end games with transendance when other factions were still struggling up the tech tree. The advantage in the early game is simply broken; you can get to sea, get formers, get air, get missiles, dozens of turns ahead of everyone else. Using them, it is completely possible to tech straight for planetbusters, buy time by trading your lower techs for peace, and then wipe every other faction off the map in a huge displace of thermonuclear fire. Of course this advantage starts to wane at the top difficulty levels, but you'll still have a better chance than most. (However, I'd peg the Spartans as being the best faction for transendant difficulty; you'll need that extra moral.)

Of course the above only applies if you turn on the ability to choose what tech you are developing next, but personally I think the game loses much of it's depth without that.

Now, I tend to hop around different factions. I also mod the game; as this is very easy to do, requiring little more than notepad and paint, I've expanded the tech tree, made new units, and changed alliance info around. (Want a challage? Make everyone warlike, and everyone hate your favorite faction and buddy up with all the others. Also, try replacing every unit and weapon option with probe team varients, bundles of fun that is!)

[adam_grif]

Name then and we can help.

It's been months since I played it, but I'll try to recall them.

- I have no idea how things like ecology ratings work (or whatever it was).
- I have no idea how satellites work. Can you build one per base, infinite per base, what? If I buy a solar power, does it get over-ridden if I launch a mineral one from the same base?
- I have no idea how drones work. What causes them? I've noticed I can fix them by reassigning certain citizens as psych people or w/e they are called, and building certain buildings, but that's the extent of my knowledge.
- No clue when a site is good to build a base, or how close I should build bases together. When you click on the base thingies they sometimes suggest spots to you, but it's a bit finicky.

The main problem compared to later games like Civ 3/4 (which I enjoyed quite a bit) was that a lot of the stuff isn't obvious, or it's hard to check. They really did make leaps and bounds in the interface with later games. I'd love to see a remake of SMAC.

What I hate? Microing for terraforming. Also be nice if you could select what you wanted and you were told the necesary tech. Finally, the way the system screws up when you chea... edit games.

I set my formers to auto as soon as possible. No clue what I should be building with them, so I don't bother.

Basically, I never turned it up past second lowest difficulty because I never got an actual mechanistic understanding of how things are working under the hood like I did with say, GalCiv2.

[Dominus Atheos]

Name then and we can help.

It's been months since I played it, but I'll try to recall them.

- I have no idea how things like ecology ratings work (or whatever it was).

The more buildings you have in a base, the more ecological damage it does. It's also a global effect, so it's the combined total of all bases.

- I have no idea how satellites work. Can you build one per base, infinite per base, what? If I buy a solar power, does it get over-ridden if I launch a mineral one from the same base?

Infinite.

- I have no idea how drones work. What causes them? I've noticed I can fix them by reassigning certain citizens as psych people or w/e they are called, and building certain buildings, but that's the extent of my knowledge.

They behave just like unhappy citizens in Civ3. You get rid of them by increasing the psych output of the base, either with specialists or buildings. You can increase your global pysch output on the civics management screen.

- No clue when a site is good to build a base, or how close I should build bases together. When you click on the base thingies they sometimes suggest spots to you, but it's a bit finicky.

Power players suggest placing them in a checkerboard pattern, with them alternating every other space. Normal people just find the best spot themselves based on available resources in the area.

It's been a year or so since I last played, so all of these answers may be completely wrong.

[Stofsk]

I hated the powergamer approach to SMAC colony establishment. It makes a civilisation look too unreal. Part of the joy in games like these is literally starting from nothing, and then building up one colony at a time, gradually exploring and terraforming and building roads and shit.

It gets boring when you meet enough people and they all start demanding you subsidise their extravagant and profligate lifestyles with the threat of violence. Of course its funny when you rape them into submission and they lie prostrate before you and pledge fealty if you'd only spare them the sword.

[open_sketchbook]

There really are two ways to play; you play to win, the powergaming approach that basically sees you covering the entire world in an evenly spaced set of colonies to squeeze every last drop of resources out of every square as fast as possible, and actually playing the game as though it were a tabletop RPG, asking yourself "What would Zak do?" instead of "How do I achieve the win conditions in the least number of turns?" Both of them are fun, but for different reasons.

[Guardsman Bass]

I generally played (and play) as Morgan, mainly because I like to sit around and fiddle with my bases, production, and the like. Conquest got dull in those games against the comps.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

On satellites:

You can build as many as you want, but a city can only make use of Half it's population worth of each type until you build an Aerospace complex, which allows that city to utilize it's full population in free food, power, and minerals.

[Archaic`]

It’s been about a year since I talked to Archaic, so I don’t remember the fine points. I usually get the weather paradigm, and build boreholes from there, but the minutiae on condensers, mirrors, aquifers, and the rest are lost on me. This last game I mostly built the farm/mine/road or the farm/solar/road, with a few boreholes or forests scattered here and there.

...

Weak points: I’m mediocre at terra forming, and have no idea how best to use specialists.

Thanks for the shout-outs. =) Would you like a few tips on these?

Name then and we can help.

It's been months since I played it, but I'll try to recall them.

- I have no idea how things like ecology ratings work (or whatever it was).

The more buildings you have in a base, the more ecological damage it does. It's also a global effect, so it's the combined total of all bases.

Actually, while your buildings can apply a modifier to the total (either positive or negative), they actually don't determine your base ecological damage rating. What determines that is the raw amount of minerals that particular base is pulling out of the ground.

Speaking of which, don't be afraid of eco-damage. Doing a lot in the short term is actually quite beneficial. Set up a base as your main mineral base, pumping its production with crawlers. Have it well defended against Psi attacks, so any worms and locusts don't kill it and have it just pump out localized eco-damage. Every time you get a fungal pop, your global eco-damage threshold goes up by 1 point (ie. What used to produce 1 point of eco-damage now produces no eco-damage). You *need* to have this pop before any facilities like the Tree Farm, etc, will start to have any positive ecological effect. If you build any before you get your first pop, while you'll get the benefits to production and so forth, you'll never get the eco-damage threshold increases from those built before the first pop even after the pops have happened.

This is the main point I feel where the RPers and the Powergamers have a big divergence in their game, as most RPers are likely to try and put ecological protections in place before they start damaging the environment, when you really need to put them in after to get the best use out of them.

- I have no idea how satellites work. Can you build one per base, infinite per base, what? If I buy a solar power, does it get over-ridden if I launch a mineral one from the same base?

Infinite.[/quote]
They're infinite, but there's no point to building infinite numbers. Every satellite delivers its resources to all your bases. The limiting factor to how much resources you can get is population. Build 1 satellite of each type per point of population at your highest population base.
Every sat you buy gives you 1 point per point of population at that base of that resource at every base with an Aerospace Complex , and 1/2 per point of population at that base of the resource at every base without an Aerospace Complex.
ie. You have 6 Mineral sats
You have bases size 10 and 2 with an Aerospace Complex, and bases size 6 and 3 without an Aerrospace Complex.
They would get 6, 2, 3 and 1 (always round down) minerals respectively from the sats.

- No clue when a site is good to build a base, or how close I should build bases together. When you click on the base thingies they sometimes suggest spots to you, but it's a bit finicky.

Power players suggest placing them in a checkerboard pattern, with them alternating every other space. Normal people just find the best spot themselves based on available resources in the area.[/quote]
To clarify, the easiest checkerboard pattern to use is probably "5 on a die". Basically, imagining each base as the centre of the 5. In each cardinal direction, you'd have one empty space, then the next base one step further on.
While this may seem like you're restricting resources, you're actually maximising them, since base squares are many times more productive than non-base squares. Needs a lot more resources, since you'll be trying to build up facilities in as many of those as possible, but you'll be amazed at how quickly you can do that using proper rush building techniques.

[UrchinStar47]

I usually play Hive as hybrid. I may be a roleplayer in the context of choosing base sites, but I generally opt for extreme directed research. My favorite unit is the Missile Needlejet, I usually conquer half of the world with them. Yes, helicopters are better, but not by much, as there is no worthy opponent left by the time I get them. I usually play on Librarian.

[dworkin]

In later games I came to enjoy playing Miriam and her evil orange hordes. With her attack bonus and probe team bonuses she was easily a winner.

Who cares if you're dumb when you can steal, um everything!
Technology, units, bases. Those natives were always a problem but with good morale you didn't need first rate units to deal with them.

Fun Miriam Moment: Fighting off Progenitor Ogres with basic infantry, wave after wave of basic infantry, which then went on to um, exorcise the demons from the promised land.

[bobalot]

I must be the only person here who played the Spartans. I usually started by wiping out the University or the Believers because they get too strong later on.

[Enforcer Talen]

Lot of good replies

So, Ive spent a week playing drones. I am a *huge* fan of the playstyle written here: http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthr ... =48&page=5 the bonus materials by Vel. He recommends getting your basic continent set up, bases 3 squares apart, and wrapping the entire country with roads on the beaches. On those beaches, he puts supply collectors. I've done a few games like that since reading it, and it looks really sexy. Beyond that, he wraps the entire continent in sea bases, builds a navy, and has it circle.

My problem is, I can get to that point in the defense. . . but I'm either about to transcend, or the pollution is getting so bad I start losing whole swaths of territory. Vel's strategy of adding choppers, bunkers and AAA infantry on every shore tile, 2-4 spies and 10 clean defenders in every city, and roving patrols of maximum attack/defense rovers is amazing. . and for me, impossible to create. I've set up games with half the enemy on transcend and half on librarian, but when they are all on transcend, I get the boot.

On the multiplayer side of things, I'm deciding I cant stand infiltration. IE, I want to infiltrate him, but I want to build my bamboo wall so no one knows whats going on. As such, I'm trying to make a habit of never trading world maps (which means no pacts with AI), as well as not allowing other players to get empath guild or planetary governor. IMHO, the first time other players should see the interior of my empire is when they launch satellites.

My short term goal is beating transcend - long term, I'd like to do it in under 100 turns. Right now I'm consistently getting needlejets around turn 100, so Im obviously doing something wrong in that area. In blind research, I go for explore first, and then build for the rest of the game. I know the idea is to get lots of supply collectors, but my tech rate is so unpleasantly slow . . .

I'm reading a book called "Okinawa, blood and the bomb." It reminds me of the Vel Fortress; every square inch of territory is mapped out and fortified, every base can reinforce every other base, and artillery, airpower, and shipboard cannons are stacked everywhere. I'm trying to replicate it, because honestly I love the Pacific Campaign, but learning how to do it in SMAX is hard.

[Archaic`]

How do you handle your environment Talen? Honestly, you want to be causing a lot of environmental damage. Have enough Empath and Trance forces to destroy whatever comes out, and watch the cash roll in. It's entirely possible (and quite enjoyable) to get 200+ credits per turn from planetpearls, with a set of rapid response formers which reforest everything within the turn.

[Enforcer Talen]

I connect all cities by road and staple a forest to them. If I see an energy I farm/solar/road it. Stylistically, I like encircling all my coasts with roads and units because its pretty, but I am unsure of its effectiveness as of yet. In the ocean, I have a couple of sea formers automated. When I get the WP up, I plant 3-5 boreholes. I also put sensors here or there, trying to get them to cover 2-3 cities at once.

Currently, my starting queue is 1-1-1, a former, recycling tanks, and a 1-1-1. When I get the tech, I upgrade them 1-2t-1s or higher, and I also like to keep a spy in each of my periphery cities. I usually have a couple rovers that I use to go hunting with, unless I'm at war, and then I have dozens of the things. My formers are generally in an expanding wave to terraform new cities, while I leave a few to auto-defungus.

[Red]

Where we bought it: eBay link to UK seller

^_^ Howdy howdy! My progression in SMAC when it first came out was much like a few other people's in the thread. Is it any wonder that a lot of us gravitated toward Zak for our first faction? When I first started playing back then, I couldn't imagine how Free Market was functional because of the scary -5 police and -3 planet ratings, so I was always Democracy + Green + Wealth. I tinkered with Gaia for a bit, and warmongered with Sparta and Believers, before settling on Peacekeepers. I'm a chronic builder, and Lal's ability to hybrid pleases me more than Morgan's "omg omg please don't go to war".

Talen and I just got the games again, and this was my first time playing Crossfire. I LOVE THE PIRATES. The ability to expand and build, unhindered by silly little things like Other Factions, pleases me. Switch to planned for growth ASAP, add Democracy once you're done building bases so the -support doesn't hurt. Add Wealth, and switch to Free Market once the infrastructure supports it. In wartime, change to Green to avoid police issues. Rush growth and tech buildings, capture Empath Guild to secure governorship, along with Virtual World, and preferably Weather Paradigm, Command Nexus & Citizen's Defense Force if I feel threatened.

Archaic: omg I had no idea about how ecodamage worked. So in addition to wanting to cause it early, I should delay the production of my tree farms? Or is the opportunity lost as soon as I research the relevant techs?

~ ~ ~

Questions for SDNet
-) What is your standard ruleset? Specifically, I'm interested in whether you do Blind or Directed research, whether you allow Steal Tech When Capture Base, and if you use anything like Do Or Die, Bell Curve, or Tech Stagnation.

-) Does your strategy for defense (how many garrisons you build, whether you prioritize war facilities like Command Center over peaceful Energy Banks) vary much between AI games and multiplayer? Or is it pretty static?

-) Do you prefer the powergaming HAHA LOOK I HAVE INFINITE CITY SPRAWL WITH FIVE HUNDRED BOREHOLES, or the RPish "yay look guys I'm a pirate!"?

-) Archaic, how do you ensure that your bases don't get rushed, being all without garrisons and whatnot? Do you just plead peace with everyone and pray to stave off the random mind worms until you have the shield of supply crawlers?

[Archaic`]

Talen: We've already spoken over IM's, but I'd recommend your initial build queue being former=>colony pod=>tanks or rec.

Red: Delay tree farms until your first pop. Once you've got the pop, you can go crazy building them. Just make sure to use that crawler rush technique you saw me use in the save games I showed you, so you have enough minerals to support the move.

[open_sketchbook]

Questions:

1. I prefer to play with directed research, steal tech on base cap, and do or die.

2. Against AI, it's all about buying the AI off, and setting yourself up so you can be far enough ahead of them to pay them a pittance and have them worship you for it. Against humans, strike first and strike hard.

3. Honestly, I prefer a more roleplaying approach, though this can be difficult once you've dappled in the powergaming side of things.

[The Yosemite Bear]

you know that I've been wanting to do a SMAC let's play, now if my copy of crossfire wasn't so FUBAR, I could do full SDN faction based on University (with a prefrence for mass destruction)

I

[Enforcer Talen]

So. I booted up s normal or huge map, transcend level difficulty. I did directed tech this time, and instead of basing my cities every three, I did them every two. IE, base, forest, base.

and, my god, this strategy is sex. I was on a largish continent in the northeast. Consciousness to the west of me, pirates to the south. I pact with the pirates, and they pay me to declare war on people from time to time. As pirates are between me and them, I'm happy to do so.. I hit formers early on, beeline for supply crawlers, and start expanding like a frickin cancer. If a base cant grow a colony pod fast enough, I build a garrison, and much of the game is rotating garrisons from safe city to threatened city. I also build a gatling rover or two to deal with worms that are particularly annoying. I actually expanded so fast one city was lot to riots, and went to the consciousness.

I kept expanding though, and soon it looked like the consciousness had done a roverrun through the heart of my territory. I gave them techs to keep them chill, and they were a strong number 2 position, with me as unsurpassed. I did a popboom, as well, but with so many collectors, a lot of my new populace was specialists. I made them researchers. Around turn 90, consciousness demanded a tech, said I was at their mercy, got another tech, and then I threatened to squish them like a bug. They declared war, and I lost some collectors that turn. I changed all the queues of my older cities to gatling rovers (each one done in 2-3 turns), and moved all my formers behind the city gates. They acted as my garrisons for 2 turns, and then the rovers starting piling in.

Worms actually did more damage to me then the consciousness; they ate 3 unguarded pop1 cities in my north. Consciousness took one city in the same area (it was my expansion area). Then my rovers came in, and I took out 80% of enemy territory in about ten turns. I demanded a pact, got 4 techs from them, and now there is no one even close to damaging me. The year is 2200, and Im essentially unassailable.

Next time Im logging in, Im sending all the rovers home, redistributing garrisons to the coast, waking up all my collectors, and putting my population down in the territory. The crawlers can go to the periphery, in the conquered zones. Over the next few turns Im starting uip a popboom and moving a ton of colony pods to the empty space that consciousness didnt fill. Silly 5 space base spread. ..

Im also going to tell the pirates to fuck off and try to make nice with the other factions. Giaia is doing well for herself, with lal and morgan not far behind.

[Enforcer Talen]

593% score. I had 2500 votes, 5000 gold and a tech coming in a round. Transcendence date, 2301.

I destroyed the pirates, destroyed gaia, then dismissed the armies and starting building up infrastructure. Fun, fun game.