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Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-16 07:40pm
by Go 2 Hell
Havok wrote:"Your princess is in another castle."
Really? I would have been relieved in a way that says "that bitch better be in another castle, this game cost money and needs to be longer than 4 fucking levels". And then after hearing that over and over again, I would've eventually gotten annoyed. I'm glad I played Super Mario Bros. already knowing the order of things.

As for my input, I would put that fake out with Elena at the end of Uncharted 2, if she died that would've ruined the entire game for me.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 09:59am
by Davis 51
You must build up attachments to your virtual people before you can start slamming us with emotional moments. Show don't tell is the operative word, and the more fantastical the setting the more human you must make the characters.
THIS

I agree with a lot of the ones mentioned here, including the Half Life series, especially from 2 onward (that includes Portal.) Not just the sad stuff like the end of HL2 Ep 2 (which was gut-wrenching), but also in the action-y moments, and humor. Many of the action set-pieces from 2 onward had great setups. Like when you have to defend this lighthouse, right as you show up, exhausted from a buggy run through ant-lion territory, probably ready for some exploring instead of fighting, a npc who agreed to hide your buggy casually asks you if you'll help them fight against the combine who are fast approaching, and that you joining the battle will make an impact on your sides morale. Then the excellent action music kicks in and combine dropships start showing up. That fight, which would have been just another fight, is now exhilarating, not just because it's well-designed in terms of layout and choreography, but because you have a reason to care about the people involved. They are willing to die for you and what you represent, and they are fighting better because you are with them.

The games are littered with tons of moments like this. The fight in ep 2 with the vorts on your side in the antlion cave is actually rather poorly designed, yet it's one of the best fights in the series, because it makes you 'feel' like you're doing a lot more than you actually are (if you hide in the corner the npc's will kill everyone anyway). The music, dialogue, and timing are perfectly laid out to remind you, again, that you are the hero, and this insurmountable battle is just another 'day in the life' for you. When the npc's shout "THREE RED LIGHTS!" and you start to panic, the music literally changes the emotion entirely from "Oh fuck we're doomed!" to "Fuck yeah bring 'em on!"

For something a bit zanier, the Metal Gear Solid series was really powerful to me personally. The entire game series is all kinds of over-the-top silliness, and is far from perfect, but over time that silliness builds to fondness as it forms a surprisingly self-consistent universe, filled with cheesy dialogue (some of it well-delivered, other parts just...well...cheesy), fourth wall breaking, and impossible phenomenon. For me, each ending was uniquely powerful in its own right, while still managing to top the ending of the previous one.

MGS1 was beautiful in that it effectively tied in an anti-nuclear warfare message directly into Solid Snakes inner struggles, followed by a kick-ass sequel hook with the phone call which would become tradition. It's all very cinematic, but that cinema only means something because you just lived through a hellish experience in Shadow Moses. Snake saw the absolute best and worst humanity had to offer, and saved the world (or at least thought that), and finally found something to live for. Not just a person, but also cause.

The ending of MGS2 did me in for a number. Looking back, MGS2 wasn't really as bad as people seem to remember. While it wasn't steller, it had a unique little charm to it, with most of the problems not stemming from the concept, or the surreal nature of it, but rather that it was rushed. Even then, it took the fact that it was rushed and used it to tell a hell of a story without doing much at all. It took its problems and turned it into its strengths in one of the strongest examples I have ever seen of making lemonade out of lemons. Development time prohibited cutscene creation, an entire bossfight, and many more sequences where you play as Snake. They took that and swung entirely in the opposite direction. So much exposition is designed to literally make you feel uncomfortable. Codec calls interrupt you constantly. There are entire sections of backtracking. Snake gets pulled away from the camera almost every time he's onscreen. You think you are about to throw down with Liquid Ocelot, but no, he jumps off Arsenal Gear and Snake jumps after him, leaving you stuck to fight Solidus, a dude who, while is a bastard and one that Raiden have a personal vendetta with, is not the Big Bad, and his motives actually make some sense. One of people's big reasons for hating it was, of course, Raiden. They wanted to be Snake again so badly that most people missed the point, which was supposed to be a big "take that" to people who want to be like Solid Snake, and that video game characters are shaped by their own merits, not what the player assigns to them. You are not Snake, and you are not Raiden either. You are your own person, and they are their own characters. Unlike all the other MGS games, this one is literally a snapshot of the life of a soldier named Raiden, and his encounters with Solid Snake. He is an observer, one who comes to his own conclusions, as are you to Raiden. It is all symbolized perfectly with the tossing of the dog-tags.

And then the phone call jettisons everything you thought, wrapping up all character development while body-slamming you with a new mystery on top of all the other ones yet to be solved. "What the hell?" indeed.

The third is arguably the most "normal" of the games, in that it sticks its wackiness to keep in line with spy-movie cliches and the plot-twists we've come to expect. Unlike the first two, which ended on a triumphant note, (though 2 was a lot more bittersweet than one, leaving the plot unfulfilled), this one was a hell of a downer ending. Yeah, Snake saved the world, yeah nuclear war averted blah blah blah. Guess what? Boss is dead. You killed her. She didn't do anything to deserve it. Her own country threw her to the dogs and smeared her name as a traitor for the greater good. There is nothing you can do about it to preserve the peace. But at least she was cool with it, right? She was willing to do this for her country. At least you get the gir..oh wait she's a Chinese spy and she took the microfilm with all the money locations with her. The game perfectly laid out Naked Snake's motivations for what he went on to do. Hell, how could he not, after everything he saw and did.

And then there is four. Right from the start, you know this is the end. Its all going down. Snake is dying. All the best laid plans from the previous three games have utterly failed. One last shot at redemption. Snake and co. shut down the Patriots, but him and liquid "still have a score to settle." It's an intense, no-holds-barred fight with two old brothers beating the shit out of each other on top of a giant warship, while constantly dredging up memories of the entire Metal Gear series. After that fight, half of everyone is either dead or so emotionally/physically scarred that a simple wedding holds enough emotional gut-punch. And then Snake has to eat his own gun. Credits roll.

Or not...

Turns out, no. We get an overly long explanation of everything, clarifying all the loose ends, and revealing that Ocelot was actually a 'good guy' all along. Now, this is so dialogue-heavy and long that it almost completely loses the viewer (one of the faults of the series). In my opinion, however, it completely redeems itself with the last few seconds, with the highly-emotional cigar drop and Big Boss's final line, "This is good, isn't it?"

Cue credits, and a promise of Snake to live out the rest of his short life peacefully, and to quit smoking.

This is how you tie a franchise together. The endings, bossfights, and emotional moments in between, are so powerful, IMO, that they make it worth suspending your disbelief and forgiving with Kojima's crazy-ass tendencies, ridiculous-length cutscenes, and general implausibility.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 05:57pm
by Aaron
Really?

I found MGS4 to be a total snooze fest with no emotional attachment to anyone or anything in the game save my XM25, nothing made the slightest bit of sense and the final battle with Liquid had me laughing my ass off at the absurdity. Maybe I would feel different had I played the other games in the series but as it stands now, I wish I had saved my 20$

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 06:35pm
by Crazedwraith
Yeah if you're going into part 4 of a series without playing the first 3. You're going to get a bit lost. News at ten.

Then again, I had played the previous games and that doesn't MGS 4's storyline anything but absurd.

Now MGS 3 did have that bit where they make you pull the trigger in the cutscene to kill The Boss, which was quite a powerful moment say the first playthrough but its surrounding by them laying on the 'lonely hero betrayed by her country' stuff so damn thick, its laughable on repetition.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 06:57pm
by Zixinus
I've played so many video games, I'm not sure. I'll try to remember a few:

- Beyond Good and Evil, there was a scene that I found very powerful. I don't want to spoil it, but it's the one that you get around the time you get your flying machine (spaceship?).

- Black Ops: while some found the story "camp" or whatever, to me it as if a cold-war-era, super-paranoid-schizophrenic, uber-patriotic conspiracy nut jacking off into my ear while screaming military specs and MURIKA MURIKA FUCK YEAH.
Except one level: the one where you escape the Gulag. It really felt like being a revolutionary. Ascend from darkness indeed.

- Kane & Lynch: the scene after the less-psychotic and more-moronic of the two fails THE SEVEN and is about to be punished.
In a way, the stupid story is nothing short of the tragedy of a bad combination of a moron and a psycho.

I am sure I could remember more, but I need to sleep now.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 09:30pm
by Solauren
Red Dead Redemption - John Marsden's reunion with his family, his moment with his kid, and his death.
Jack Marsden's avenging his parents was also powerful.

Super Metroid - The baby metroid saving Samus, and then it's death. That pissed me off SO MUCH.

The wait for Duke Nukem Forever - That is beyond fustrating ;)

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-17 11:15pm
by Highlord Laan
Taking your Warden down the Final Sacrifice ending in Dragon Age: Origins. He or she has battled hordes of soulless monsters forged by a malevolent god to torment the innocent, fought demons on their home ground, survived countless tragedies and losses, all to discover that unless you risk unleashing an even greater evil on the world, you must give up either your life or that of one of your companions.

I played an Elven Mage on that playthrough. All the religious and racist bullshit implied with that character made her death a great deal more poignant.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-18 12:50am
by adam_grif
Crazedwraith wrote:Yeah if you're going into part 4 of a series without playing the first 3. You're going to get a bit lost. News at ten.

Then again, I had played the previous games and that doesn't MGS 4's storyline anything but absurd.

Now MGS 3 did have that bit where they make you pull the trigger in the cutscene to kill The Boss, which was quite a powerful moment say the first playthrough but its surrounding by them laying on the 'lonely hero betrayed by her country' stuff so damn thick, its laughable on repetition.
The most moving thing in MGS4 ends up being a "haha just kidding he's not really dead" moment as soon as the credits roll.



Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-18 01:46am
by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba
Highlord Laan wrote:Taking your Warden down the Final Sacrifice ending in Dragon Age: Origins. He or she has battled hordes of soulless monsters forged by a malevolent god to torment the innocent, fought demons on their home ground, survived countless tragedies and losses, all to discover that unless you risk unleashing an even greater evil on the world, you must give up either your life or that of one of your companions.

I played an Elven Mage on that playthrough. All the religious and racist bullshit implied with that character made her death a great deal more poignant.
Except you can just knock Morgan up instead and lose nobody and nothing.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-18 01:52am
by adam_grif
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
Highlord Laan wrote:Taking your Warden down the Final Sacrifice ending in Dragon Age: Origins. He or she has battled hordes of soulless monsters forged by a malevolent god to torment the innocent, fought demons on their home ground, survived countless tragedies and losses, all to discover that unless you risk unleashing an even greater evil on the world, you must give up either your life or that of one of your companions.

I played an Elven Mage on that playthrough. All the religious and racist bullshit implied with that character made her death a great deal more poignant.
Except you can just knock Morgan up instead and lose nobody and nothing.
No kidding bro. But that doesn't impact the power of doing what he said (whether you think it's powerful or not), because it's not like it's a consequence free choice. Not everybody would be comfortable giving an amoral apostate access to an Eldar God's soul, and making the sacrifice isn't trivialized by a compromise solution that might end up with horrible consequences.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-19 04:18pm
by Enigma
Silent Hill's 1 and 2. Walking through the town, through thick fog (SH1), not knowing where the creatures are coming from until the last moment and the only way you know you are about to be attacked is hearing them coming and the static of the radio, or in SH2 the sudden attacks by some creatures hiding away, waiting for you to pass by.

The whole atmosphere in SH was down right frightening and dreary but you just can't stop playing. :)

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-19 09:23pm
by Rekkon
Yet another vote for Homeworld. I still cannot listen to Adagio for Strings without hearing "Kharak is burning..."

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-20 09:57am
by Revy
Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams, the ending and epilogue. I felt more attached to the characters in that game than any of the previous ones, and it was a nice build up and finish.

Eternal Sonata would count towards this if not for one lousy jackass character - Alagretto. Sadly he's also one of the main characters and the player avatar. I loved all the rest of the cast (even the heartless villains), the setting was stunning, the music fabulous, and the bit with the fortune tree had me sitting around for a good ten minutes trying to work out what it was all about, and then when it clicked I felt so great that I had worked it out, because the game doesn't spell it out for you.

I really loved it and felt it was very moving, save for that one sour note Retto. He's the lead female characters love interest despite the fact that she's the most kind hearted and caring person you can imagine and he's an obnoxious jerk that bullies his eight year old friend to the point of tears. I honestly cannot imagine what anyone could see in him and I seriously objected to playing as him and having everyone overlook his bs without ever calling him on it.

Still, it's a very poignant game and has a lot of great moments in it. If they'd actually made Chopin the main player character and game focus the way he was meant to be and removed Retto from the game altogether, I wouldn't have a bad word to say about it.

I want to add Silent Hill 3 to the list, in particular learning about Claudia. Despite being an enormous deluded jerk during the game, it felt kinda nice learning that poor Alessa (who'd been pretty much screwed over by life since day one) actually did have a friend when she was a kid, and that she and Claudia were like sisters. And to think how they both wound up ... yeah, kinda sad.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-20 03:17pm
by SirNitram
Torment, Homeworld, and of course, the terrified voiceover cutscene from HW: Cata.

Final Fantasy V. FF3 and 4 had such cop-out deaths(ESPECIALLY in Advance). But Five gets the gut-punches going early and refuses to stop. One or two are just 'Yea, you'll be seperated a long time'. Then there's Galuf. And even at the end, when you've got absurd power.... Gilgamesh goes down fighting. Don't ask me why, that made me boil and burn down Exdeath.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-21 10:13am
by 2000AD
Add me on for HL2:Ep2's ending and Mordin's loyalty mission in ME2.

Although it's now been copied, repeated and otherwise done to death, I'm going to nominate the Shock and Awe mission from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. You're one of the games main characters, you've just gone through the whole Black hawk Down / "No one gets left behind" scenario and put yourself at risk to rescue a downed helicopter pilot, at that point as you're flying away tradition dictates you get a conradulations from command and move onto the next mission, not that a nuclear bomb explodes and the entire next 'mission' is controlling you're guy as he's crawling out of a crashed chopper and looking at the devestation before keeling over dead.
That first time I played the game and went through that it knocked me back in my chair. But like I said it's now been copied in other games and repeated in the sequel so much it's probably lost whatever power it once had.

Farcry 2. Obviously this varies from person to person due to the randomness of the characters, but it really hit me the first time one of my merc buddies died. It was the old Serbian dude. Went up to him after the mission was done, he was lieing on the ground wounded and I just gave him some morphine like I had done in past missions. I figoured he'd just get be healed like normal and get back up, but this time he stayed down, another morphine, still no change and then a final morphine almost in desperation and he just shudders and dies. I actually reloaded the game and made sure he didn't get wounded this time.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-23 08:20pm
by DudeGuyMan
Here's something I wrote a couple years ago regarding the dark side storyline of KOTOR.
Damn you, Mission. The Republic and the Jedi might pride themselves on being just and righteous, but under their rule you grew up living in a sewer and eating garbage. Who pulled you out of that shithole? Who whisked you off the planet just before it got bombed into the stone age? Who took time out from his very important quest to dick around in the middle of the fucking desert rescuing your worthless piece of shit brother from sand people? Without me, you never would have learned about your brother's death at their hands, because the garbage dump you lived in would have come down around your ears in a fucking holocaust of orbital bombardment.

And how do you pay me back? You spit in my fucking face with that silly "But the Sith are EVIL!" bullshit. I expected that sort of crap from Jolee and Juhani, and that simpering dipshit Carth, but not from you. You might not be "evil" but I had come to think of you as at least being halfway smart. (You were so damned pragmatic when we slit the throat of that silly blind leader of your old gang on Taris!) I mean I was prepared to tolerate a little bit of lip, but when it became clear that even your emo throw-rug of a wookie wasn't going to back you, it was time to quit sticking up for a regime that never gave a shit about you and throw your chips in with the only people who ever did you any favors.

But no, instead you call me out. Right there in front of my brand new apprentice and the rest of my followers. You force me to kill you, no pun intended. You ignorant little bitch, what made you think I even had the option of backing out at that point? The die had been cast, blood had already been shed. What the hell did you think was going to happen?

But it's all right. I don't really blame you.

I blame Carth.

Maybe you didn't know better, but he should have. In fact he certainly did, given the way ran for the hills once he realized what was happening. I blame him for not buying your life with his own. All that wannabe-hero horseshit he talked, and in the end he ran like a coward and left a teenage girl to face two Sith alone, with little more than a cry of "Run away!" over his shoulder as he fled. It ought to have been HE who stayed behind to die extolling the virtues of the Republic while YOU ran off into the woods.

The new Emperor of the Galaxy will not be kind to Carth, when he finally catches up to him.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-24 11:55am
by CaptainChewbacca
Original Starcraft. When Mengsk abandons Kerrigan at the fall of Mar Sara, and Raynor is screaming because there's nothing he can do to save the woman he's just starting to love.

Seeing what she becomes... its just worse.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-24 03:14pm
by Darth Yan
you mean tarsonis right? and the new version of the scene is even more gutwrenching (kerrigan breaks down completely and stares at the sky as the mutalisks fall on her). that one act propelled mengsk into complete monster territory. That's actually why I loved the ending of WOL; something finally goes right for Jim after four years of repeated betrayal and failure and Kerrigan is finally freed.

Plus the bit where Mengsk is confronted by the recording of his motive rant at tarsonis and completely looses his fudge. That was infinitely awesome.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-24 03:30pm
by Psychic_Sandwich
The haunted house in VTM: Bloodlines. It's one of the most genuinely frightening levels of any videogame I've ever played, and it does it mostly without recourse to having things jump out at you and shout boo. Instead, the developers created a genuinely disturbing atmosphere that still gives me the shivers years later. Of course, the other thing I remember most from that game was the giant landshark that the magical girl was hunting, so maybe my judgement can't be relied upon. :lol:

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-24 05:01pm
by Vendetta
Revy wrote: Eternal Sonata would count towards this if not for one lousy jackass character - Alagretto
Fun and extremely pretty as it was, Eternal Sonata is probably the last game that should be mentioned here. The story was a shambolic mess (so much so they had to completely redo the ending for the PS3 version because it was incomprehensible garbage), and the narrative presentation is shot to buggery. The best example is the character of Claves, whose entire character development is shoehorned into a single ten or so minute cutscene which takes place about half an hour after she's introduced (and subsequently immediately removed from the party for being all but completely useless at that point). The real problem? This cutscene takes place after she has been fatally stabbed and is bleeding out, she lays out her entire motivation and character, dies, and then has no further effect on the story or the other characters. Even if you do the bonus dungeon and resurrect her there's no significant impact on plot or characters (except now at high levels she's the strongest character in the game).

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-24 05:42pm
by Steel
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Original Starcraft. When Mengsk abandons Kerrigan at the fall of Mar Sara, and Raynor is screaming because there's nothing he can do to save the woman he's just starting to love.

Seeing what she becomes... its just worse.
I'd say that the best Mengsk bit has got to be the inauguration cutscene.

"And from that throne... I shall watch over you."

"For we shall win through, no matter the cost!"

It has absolutely excellent delivery, the voice actor did really well there.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-25 04:20am
by Highlord Laan
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Original Starcraft. When Mengsk abandons Kerrigan at the fall of Mar Sara, and Raynor is screaming because there's nothing he can do to save the woman he's just starting to love.

Seeing what she becomes... its just worse.
What pissed me off even more was that the wall of bunkers and entrenched siege tanks and goliaths I'd set in place had the whole dammed zerg swarm hemmed in quite handily. That base was goddamed invincible.

Re: what are the most powerful moments in video games?

Posted: 2011-03-25 04:45am
by Revy
Vendetta wrote:Fun and extremely pretty as it was, Eternal Sonata is probably the last game that should be mentioned here. (snip)
Hahah, oh geez I forgot about that. Yeah the first time I watched her death scene I was like "What is wrong with you?". Because of course the game has no blood and shows no evidence of injury. So Claves was just sort of stumbling about the room monologuing for ten minutes before I realised that she had actually been stabbed.

Honestly though, I didn't think the story was a shambles. I managed to understand it just fine, and the only thing that made me scratch my head and go "wtf?" was when the party came to that timeless tree and the fortune teller lady. Still, I managed to click what was going on after thinking it over, and after that I had no trouble following the story.

Also, how the hell can you say that Claves had no impact on the story? Just ... what? Falsetto spent the entire rest of the game lamenting about the fact that she couldn't compete with Claves because she's dead now and can never prove herself better. Her message to Crescendo also leads to him learning that Serenade is a spy, which in turn leads to his utterly retarded decision to surrender to Waltz, forcing the team to chase after and stop him.

I agree they should have fixed the ending so that if you went to the massively annoying trouble of getting her back by doing the bonus dungeon, then she would actually have some impact on the ending, or at least appear and be aknowledged by the characters. That was just laziness on their part. That or someone on the production team really hated Claves.

Overall though I really liked the game. I loved the characters to bits (Beat was adorable, Salsa was funny, Polka was really sweet and I always had Falsetto in my team because she kicked ass). The whole thing was a refreshing change from all the 'darker and edgier' shit I've seen piling up everywhere I look, I had a lot of fun playing it, and I honestly didn't know how it would end until it did. I also thought the ending was great - everyone is trapped in a neverending time loop because Polka sacrafices herself, and you think the whole thing is going to start all over again and repeat itself. But then Chopin gets up and says "Screw this, I make the rules and I've decided this isn't the way it's going to be!".

Granted the impact of the scene was ruined somewhat when Polka decides that the most important person to her is not the charming big brother figure that just saved her life, but the jerkass lovesick idiot that habitually pisses everyone off and has zero chemistry with her. Gotta love that red string, eh? Yeah I love the game a lot, I think it had loads of great moments and fun characters, but I still maintain the mood of the whole thing was strangled by Retto. Imagine Trek without Wesley Crusher or TPM without Jar Jar.