Donald Trump Indicted in New York

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LadyTevar
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by LadyTevar »

Ralin wrote: 2023-05-10 07:38am https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/politics ... index.html

So anyone expect 1) Trump to obey this order and 2) the court to punish him in any meaningful way if he doesn't?
Probably not...

... But I fully expect it to be used against him in future courts of law.

And he did lose the Civil Case and was fined $5mil for sexual abuse and slander.

The question now is how will the other Court Cases turn out? Will everything fall down around him like dominoes as he gets more desperate?
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by bobalot »

LadyTevar wrote: 2023-05-10 07:44am
Ralin wrote: 2023-05-10 07:38am https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/politics ... index.html

So anyone expect 1) Trump to obey this order and 2) the court to punish him in any meaningful way if he doesn't?
Probably not...

... But I fully expect it to be used against him in future courts of law.

And he did lose the Civil Case and was fined $5mil for sexual abuse and slander.

The question now is how will the other Court Cases turn out? Will everything fall down around him like dominoes as he gets more desperate?
I'm sure he can fall back on his legion of suckers for funding.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by bilateralrope »

What options does he have for desperate moves ?

Fleeing the country is an obvious one. Though being seen as a loser like that will cost him supporters.

His attempt to stir up an angry mob for the latest indictment didn't get many people and everyone will be watching for it if he tries again.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

Trumps only real option for getting out of his legal issues (at the Federal level) would be to be re-elected President, prepare a nice full pardon for himself for all federal level crimes committed prior to it's date. Give a full confession of everything he ever did that the Pardon would cover (with the secret service holding off the FBI etc) live on TV, and then once he's done talking, sign the Pardon.

Quite frankly, he should have done that no later then the day before Joe Biden was swore into office.

With said Pardon, he only has to worry about state level legal issues. All he'd have to do to avoid those problems is move to states he's friends with the governor. (Or help fund someone into the Governorship of a state he has legal issues in, and repeat the pardon on tv stunt)

I kind of wish he'd do this actually. It would show what a joke the US Pardon system is, and hopefully get it changed.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by bilateralrope »

There is nothing saying that a pardon needs to specify which crimes are being pardoned, the pardon just needs to avoid any ambiguity. For example, here is the relevant bit of Nixon's pardon:
Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.
So no need for Trump to confess anything. Just write himself a pardon that covers all crimes before {date}.

Though the question of if a president can pardon themself is a messy one. It will likely get challenged in court. Also, if the crimes have been pardoned, Trump can't plead the fifth to avoid testifying about an accomplices crimes. Which becomes messy if the pardon is being challenged.

Oh and pardoning those accomplices requires saying who they are. Which some of them might not like.

At this point, I think Trump's best options are:
- Get his lawyers focused on arguing for a comfortable house arrest because putting him in the general prison population causes problems for his secret service protection.
- Grab what money he can and flee the country. If there is somewhere safe for him to go to.
But both require Trump to admit that he's lost. So they seem unlikely he gets convicted.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Zaune »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:11amWith said Pardon, he only has to worry about state level legal issues.
Or a drone strike.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

Zaune wrote: 2023-05-10 06:17pm
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:11amWith said Pardon, he only has to worry about state level legal issues.
Or a drone strike.
Since the United states isn't at war with anyone with that kind of capability, that's unlikely to be a serious issue.

Unless he was stupid enough to go into a warzone.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Ralin »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:03pm
Zaune wrote: 2023-05-10 06:17pm
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:11amWith said Pardon, he only has to worry about state level legal issues.
Or a drone strike.
Since the United states isn't at war with anyone with that kind of capability, that's unlikely to be a serious issue.

Unless he was stupid enough to go into a warzone.
I think the joke was about a drone strike ordered by a current, presumably Democrat president.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-10 11:54am At this point, I think Trump's best options are:
- Get his lawyers focused on arguing for a comfortable house arrest because putting him in the general prison population causes problems for his secret service protection.
- Grab what money he can and flee the country. If there is somewhere safe for him to go to.
But both require Trump to admit that he's lost. So they seem unlikely he gets convicted.
Buy a privately run Mental Health facility, and have himself 'committed' to it. With the staff on his payroll, he could effectively run his businesses from it, while giving every impression of receiving treatment. Hell, he could buy a 'chain' of them, and move between them every so often for 'treatment/therapy options'.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

Ralin wrote: 2023-05-10 11:11pm
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:03pm
Zaune wrote: 2023-05-10 06:17pm
Or a drone strike.
Since the United states isn't at war with anyone with that kind of capability, that's unlikely to be a serious issue.

Unless he was stupid enough to go into a warzone.
I think the joke was about a drone strike ordered by a current, presumably Democrat president.
Let's give Biden some credit. I think he knows that using a Drone Strike on Trump is a waste of a perfectly good missile. Just ask him to go to Moscow to negotiate with his good friend Putin, and then pull his passport while he's overseas (or arrange for the Ukrainians to shot him down by accident)
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by bilateralrope »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:12pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-10 11:54am At this point, I think Trump's best options are:
- Get his lawyers focused on arguing for a comfortable house arrest because putting him in the general prison population causes problems for his secret service protection.
- Grab what money he can and flee the country. If there is somewhere safe for him to go to.
But both require Trump to admit that he's lost. So they seem unlikely he gets convicted.
Buy a privately run Mental Health facility, and have himself 'committed' to it. With the staff on his payroll, he could effectively run his businesses from it, while giving every impression of receiving treatment. Hell, he could buy a 'chain' of them, and move between them every so often for 'treatment/therapy options'.
Until someone starts asking questions like "why is he still on social media ?"
Or whoever is in charge of his businesses on paper gets greedy and stops following his instructions.
Or someone decides to reveal enough to start an investigation. Maybe over Trump's habit of not paying bills or firing people who disagree with him. Maybe a patient at that facility who notices how differently Trump is being treated and/or that their treatment is lacking.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Zaune »

Ralin wrote: 2023-05-10 11:11pmI think the joke was about a drone strike ordered by a current, presumably Democrat president.
A Republican president who feels threatened by Trump's continued popularity and the threat that represents to his authority is also a possibility, but yes.

But in all seriousness, if Trump did somehow manage to rules-lawyer his way out of any consequences for his actions in such a blatant fashion... Well, the federal government has assassinated people for a lot less.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Ralin »

Or Trump just keeps doing what he always does, dares them to jail a former and likely future president and no one does.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-10 11:12pm
Buy a privately run Mental Health facility, and have himself 'committed' to it. With the staff on his payroll, he could effectively run his businesses from it, while giving every impression of receiving treatment. Hell, he could buy a 'chain' of them, and move between them every so often for 'treatment/therapy options'.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Until someone starts asking questions like "why is he still on social media ?"
We allow our patients to continue interacting with the outside world via social media to see if it's having an effect on them.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Or whoever is in charge of his businesses on paper gets greedy and stops following his instructions.
Make it Trumps new dog
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Or someone decides to reveal enough to start an investigation. Maybe over Trump's habit of not paying bills or firing people who disagree with him.
I admit, that is something Trump would never think to avoid or cover up.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Maybe a patient at that facility who notices how differently Trump is being treated and/or that their treatment is lacking.
Easy solution to that - Note I said private. So private, Trump is now the only patient.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by bilateralrope »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-11 08:00am We allow our patients to continue interacting with the outside world via social media to see if it's having an effect on them.
But they also aren't allowed to be a danger to other people. Which Trump will be if he's trying to stir up an angry mob or just grifting.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Or whoever is in charge of his businesses on paper gets greedy and stops following his instructions.
Make it Trumps new dog
Then you get the authorities asking about who is really in charge. Since it's obviously not the dog and the paperwork is required to be accurate.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-11 02:07am Maybe a patient at that facility who notices how differently Trump is being treated and/or that their treatment is lacking.
Easy solution to that - Note I said private. So private, Trump is now the only patient.
What are the legal requirements for verifying that someone who avoided punishment for crimes due to mental illness is actually being treated for that mental illness ?

Also there is the complication of his secret service protection. I don't know if a former president can choose to lose that protection, but I doubt one being treated for mental illness will be able to. It only takes one of them noticing something odd about the facility and saying something to someone outside because they are worried that someone at the facility is abusing Trump.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

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So he'd be a 21st century Pablo Escobar?
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Lord Revan »

It should be noted that "insanity defense" is extremely hard to pull off at the best of times. Trump is a hedonistic narcissist so it's not hard to argue he's not right in the head, but he does understands that there's punishments for breaking the law, he just thinks those laws shouldn't apply to him personally. So he doesn't really fit the legal definition for "unfit to stand trial due to insanity".

Because of this getting committed wouldn't really be a viable option for him to avoid punishment.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

I never said it would work.

I said it was another option.

(Because realistically, there is no way that Trump can hide anywhere in the world, or even liquidate his assets right now.)
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Ralin »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-11 02:57pm I never said it would work.

I said it was another option.

(Because realistically, there is no way that Trump can hide anywhere in the world, or even liquidate his assets right now.)
It's an option if you ignore how any of these things work in favor of just making shit up.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Solauren »

Ralin wrote: 2023-05-11 06:23pm
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-11 02:57pm I never said it would work.

I said it was another option.

(Because realistically, there is no way that Trump can hide anywhere in the world, or even liquidate his assets right now.)
It's an option if you ignore how any of these things work in favor of just making shit up.
Like Trump does?
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Ralin »

Solauren wrote: 2023-05-11 09:10pm
Like Trump does?
Pretty sure that's just you right now
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

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Ralin wrote: 2023-05-12 07:24am
Solauren wrote: 2023-05-11 09:10pm
Like Trump does?
Pretty sure that's just you right now
Right now it looks like it's both of you. Shut it.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

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Trump criminal trial to start next March, with campaign in full swing
By Luc Cohen and Karen Freifeld
May 24, 20239:37 AM GMT+12Updated 17 hours ago


May 23 (Reuters) - Donald Trump will face a criminal trial in New York on March 25, 2024, a judge said on Tuesday, meaning the former U.S. President will be on trial as his campaign for the 2024 Republican nomination is in full swing.

Trump, who is charged with falsifying business records to conceal a hush money payment to a porn star, is expected to be crisscrossing the country next spring along with his rivals as states host presidential nominating contests.

Justice Juan Merchan in Manhattan state court announced the date at a hearing in which Trump, the front-runner for the Republican nomination in 2024 and the first former U.S. president to be criminally charged, appeared remotely from Florida.

Merchan also advised Trump of restrictions on his ability to publicly discuss certain evidence handed over by prosecutors.

At least four screens in Merchan's courtroom showed Trump and his lawyer Todd Blanche seated in front of U.S. flags.

Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 criminal counts. In a post on his Truth Social platform after the hearing, Trump said his rights to free speech had been violated.

"They forced upon us a trial date of March 25th, right in the middle of the Primary season," Trump wrote in the post. "It's called ELECTION INTERFERENCE."

New York prosecutors say Trump sought to conceal reimbursements to his then-lawyer Michael Cohen for a $130,000 payment to Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford. Cohen has said he paid her in exchange for her silence before the 2016 election about a sexual encounter she says she had with Trump, which Trump denies.

The reimbursements concealed violations of New York election law and violations of campaign contribution limits under federal election law, according to prosecutors.

JUDGE SAYS RESTRICTIONS DO NOT IMPEDE TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN

During the hearing, Trump spoke only to tell the court he had a copy of the May 8 order restricting him from disclosing certain evidence to third parties, including news outlets and on social media.

Blanche said Trump was concerned the order violated his First Amendment rights to freedom of speech. But he said he had told his client that Merchan did not intend to impede his speech and that the restriction was not a gag order, which would bar him from speaking publicly about the case at all.

Merchan said he did not mean to restrict Trump's ability to campaign, and that Trump "is certainly free to deny the charges, he is free to defend himself against the charges."

The judge said on Tuesday that if Trump violates the restrictions, he could be held in contempt of court.

The restrictions on Trump concern grand jury minutes, witness statements, and other materials that prosecutors are required to turn over to the defense to prepare for trial.

Prosecutors have said the order was needed because of Trump's history of attacks on social media, and the risk that witnesses might be harassed.
It's going to be interesting watching this trial hurt Trump's lead in the primary.
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-05-24 11:04am Trump criminal trial to start next March, with campaign in full swing
By Luc Cohen and Karen Freifeld
May 24, 20239:37 AM GMT+12Updated 17 hours ago


May 23 (Reuters) - Donald Trump will face a criminal trial in New York on March 25, 2024, a judge said on Tuesday, meaning the former U.S. President will be on trial as his campaign for the 2024 Republican nomination is in full swing.

Trump, who is charged with falsifying business records to conceal a hush money payment to a porn star, is expected to be crisscrossing the country next spring along with his rivals as states host presidential nominating contests.

Justice Juan Merchan in Manhattan state court announced the date at a hearing in which Trump, the front-runner for the Republican nomination in 2024 and the first former U.S. president to be criminally charged, appeared remotely from Florida.

Merchan also advised Trump of restrictions on his ability to publicly discuss certain evidence handed over by prosecutors.

At least four screens in Merchan's courtroom showed Trump and his lawyer Todd Blanche seated in front of U.S. flags.

Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 criminal counts. In a post on his Truth Social platform after the hearing, Trump said his rights to free speech had been violated.

"They forced upon us a trial date of March 25th, right in the middle of the Primary season," Trump wrote in the post. "It's called ELECTION INTERFERENCE."

New York prosecutors say Trump sought to conceal reimbursements to his then-lawyer Michael Cohen for a $130,000 payment to Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford. Cohen has said he paid her in exchange for her silence before the 2016 election about a sexual encounter she says she had with Trump, which Trump denies.

The reimbursements concealed violations of New York election law and violations of campaign contribution limits under federal election law, according to prosecutors.

JUDGE SAYS RESTRICTIONS DO NOT IMPEDE TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN

During the hearing, Trump spoke only to tell the court he had a copy of the May 8 order restricting him from disclosing certain evidence to third parties, including news outlets and on social media.

Blanche said Trump was concerned the order violated his First Amendment rights to freedom of speech. But he said he had told his client that Merchan did not intend to impede his speech and that the restriction was not a gag order, which would bar him from speaking publicly about the case at all.

Merchan said he did not mean to restrict Trump's ability to campaign, and that Trump "is certainly free to deny the charges, he is free to defend himself against the charges."

The judge said on Tuesday that if Trump violates the restrictions, he could be held in contempt of court.

The restrictions on Trump concern grand jury minutes, witness statements, and other materials that prosecutors are required to turn over to the defense to prepare for trial.

Prosecutors have said the order was needed because of Trump's history of attacks on social media, and the risk that witnesses might be harassed.
It's going to be interesting watching this trial hurt Trump's lead in the primary.
Assuming that's what happens :?:
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Re: Donald Trump Indicted in New York

Post by Ralin »

I'm pretty skeptical it will be anything but a selling point for him
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