Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Locked
User avatar
Tribble
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3082
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Tribble »

MKSheppard wrote: 2022-02-03 02:10pm
Tribble wrote: 2022-01-28 01:17pmAre you prepared to go nuclear over Ukraine? ‘Cause that’s the only way they will realistically be defended if the Russians are serious about invading; we don’t have enough conventional military assets in the area to stop them.
Fly in all the VOLCANO minefield deployment equipment we have in storage and give them to Ukraine; along with thousands of tons of antipersonnel mines we have in storage. You can't advance into Ukraine if you keep running into minefields -- and the Ukrainians foolishly signed the Ottawa Treaty in 2005 that mandated destruction of antipersonnel mines -- and you kind of need AP mines to keep anti-tank minefields from being easily cleared.
Hmmmm, treaties and morals aside, sufficiently in-depth minefields could be a deterrent, but they have a pretty large border with Russia. It would take A LOT of mines.

Mass drone swarms are also a potential deterrent, now that they are becoming available. Of course, Russia could do the same thing.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3997
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

MKSheppard wrote: 2022-02-03 02:04pm I'd like to point out the main issue here is the same thing that was for Kuwait in 1990.

Post-WW2, everyone agreed following Nuremberg, that wars of conquest were pretty much over; along with irredentist movements (after much redrawing of the borders of Europe and moving millions of people)

Saddam's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 over oil slant drilling and annexing Kuwait as the 19th Province of Iraq has many parallels with the entire Crimean mess; while the whole thing with the "Donetsk People's Republic"; "Luhansk People's Republic", "Autonomous Republic of Crimea" etc reminds Europe of the whole irredentist mess just before and during WW2.

Unlike the Russo-Georgian War which was provoked by the Georgians launching the Battle of Tskhinvali (who knew that shelling a town and then assaulting it wouldn't cause a war, *I'm a smarmy asshole*); the Russians pretty much out of nowhere flooded Crimea with Little Green Men and annexed it on the pretext of "lol unrest in Ukraine".

Yes, I know that in 1954, Khrushchev had Crimea transferred from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR by decree; and that there had been irredentist movements in Crimea dating to the breakup of the USSR...the way the Russians went about the whole business totally pissed off the Ukrainians; to the point that the Ukrainians formally severed Russian/Soviet era lineages and heritages for the Ukrainian military in around 2015-16.

That's a pretty big deal; and I think the Ukrainians are mad enough to basically do some cleaning up of the current borders in the Donbass and then formally abandon the Donbass and Crimea, in order to close out the "must not have active border conflicts or disputed territory" lede required forNATO membership.

BONUS: Don't forget Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17), shot down by the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade with a firing unit that just mysteriously disappeared back into Russia following the shootdown, which quite annoyed the Netherlands.
I was wondering when Iraq's invasion of Kuwait would be mentioned, when Saddam went in and a coalition kicked him out. Somehow I doubt that any military intervention on behalf of Ukraine when the shit hits the fan would remain confined to Ukraine.
Hmmmm, treaties and morals aside, sufficiently in-depth minefields could be a deterrent, but they have a pretty large border with Russia. It would take A LOT of mines.

Mass drone swarms are also a potential deterrent, now that they are becoming available. Of course, Russia could do the same thing.
Russia certainly has experience when it comes to placing minefields, dating back to World War 2. But unless Russia itself is expecting to be invaded, mining the border isn't going to do them any good.

Meanwhile, China has stuck their oar in:
China joins Russia in opposition to Nato expansion at Beijing Winter Olympics opening ceremony.
Russia and China have pushed back against US pressure over Ukraine and Taiwan as their leaders met at the opening of the Winter Olympics in Beijing.

Hours before the opening ceremony, Russia’s Vladimir Putin and China’s Xi Jinping issued a joint statement highlighting what it called "interference in the internal affairs" of other states in a reference to the current situations in Ukraine and Taiwan.

China joined Russia in its opposition to the expansion of Nato and called for the alliance "to abandon the ideological approaches of the Cold War".

The statement backs up a call from Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi who last week told US Secretary of State Antony Blinken that Moscow’s security concerns need to be addressed, a notable policy shift for Beijing.

Putin is the most important guest at this year's Winter Olympics after many western nations, including the UK, chose not to send any political representatives to the event in protest to the treatment of the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

The statement issued by the two leaders said: "Some forces representing a minority on the world stage continue to advocate unilateral approaches to resolving international problems and resort to military policy."

China and Russia are committed to “deepening back-to-back strategic cooperation,” Mr Xi was quoted as telling Mr Putin.

“This is a strategic decision that has far-reaching influence on China, Russia and the world,” Mr Xi said, according to the official Xinhua News Agency.Faced with a “complex and evolving international situation,” the two sides “strongly support each other” in confronting what Mr Xi called “regional security threats” and “international strategic stability."

Mr Putin praised “unprecedented” close relations with China, in his opening remarks to President Xi carried by Russian television.

President Putin also recalled his presence in Beijing for the 2008 Summer Olympics, and the Chinese delegation’s attendance at Russia’s 2014 Winter Games in Sochi, calling such exchanges “to a certain extent a tradition".

Beijing has become the first city to host both winter and summer Games, but the opening ceremony has been watered down partly due to Covid restrictions.

The discussions between the two leaders mark their first in-person meeting since 2019 as the two nations have increasingly aligned their foreign policy's in recent years in opposition to Western powers.A buildup of more than 100,000 Russian troops near Ukraine has fueled Western fears that Moscow is poised to invade its neighbour.

Russia has denied planning an offensive but urged the US and its allies to provide a binding pledge that Nato won’t expand to Ukraine and other ex-Soviet nations or deploy weapons there, and roll back its forces from Eastern Europe - demands firmly rejected by the West.

The US has reacted with promises of severe sanctions and the deployment of more troops to Eastern European Nato countries.

Some observers suggested that Beijing is closely watching how the US and its allies act in the standoff over Ukraine as it ponders further strategy on Taiwan, arguing that indecision by Washington could encourage China to grow more assertive.The US is Taiwan’s main supplier of fighter aircraft and defensive arms and is legally bound to treat threats to the island democracy as matters of “grave concern.”

The joint statement said that Russia reaffirms that Taiwan is an integral part of China and opposes Taiwan’s independence in any form.

China claims the self-governing island as its own territory, to be annexed by force if necessary.

Economic and diplomatic cooperation has expanded into the military field in recent years, as Russia and China have held a series of joint war games, including naval drills and patrols by long-range bombers over the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea.

In August, Russian troops for the first time deployed to Chinese territory for joint manoeuvres.
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Crazedwraith »

eta: Whoops this was supposed to be in the brexit / brit politics thread.

As to this one, it seems like every european leader is trying to take a crack at negotiations for the glory and spotlight of being the statesperson to solve it. Macron and now Boris and Truss I almost feel sorry for the russian diplomats.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28723
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Broomstick »

List of countries evacuating their nationals grows: US, UK, Netherlands, Iraq, Lithuania, Germany… probably a bunch more, those are just the ones I’ve seen in headlines today.

A part of me wonders if Putin will launch this during the Superbowl, thinking the Americans will be distracted, but who really knows? Only Putin, and that’s assuming he’s actually made a decision.

I’m sure there’s a lot of grousing about the “don’t expect a rescue” line from the US government but I find the honesty refreshing.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-12 08:34am A part of me wonders if Putin will launch this during the Superbowl, thinking the Americans will be distracted, but who really knows? Only Putin, and that’s assuming he’s actually made a decision.
From what I've read there are serious logistical issues (like a contested crossing of a major river) that the Russian military doesn't seem to have made appropriately serious preparations for. And most of the noise about the supposedly (or maybe not because people keep waffling) imminent Russian invasion seems to be coming from the Biden administration. Not the Ukrainian government, Ukrainian military or Russian government.
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Also, am I the only one thinking that seeing as several major European countries really, really don't seem to want to get dragged into a war over this Biden forcing the issue would stand a great chance of breaking NATO as it currently exists? Especially after four years of the rest of NATO having to deal with the Deranged Cheeto Hitler administration?
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28723
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Broomstick »

Ralin wrote: 2022-02-12 09:37am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-12 08:34am A part of me wonders if Putin will launch this during the Superbowl, thinking the Americans will be distracted, but who really knows? Only Putin, and that’s assuming he’s actually made a decision.
From what I've read there are serious logistical issues (like a contested crossing of a major river) that the Russian military doesn't seem to have made appropriately serious preparations for. And most of the noise about the supposedly (or maybe not because people keep waffling) imminent Russian invasion seems to be coming from the Biden administration. Not the Ukrainian government, Ukrainian military or Russian government.
So... you are suggesting that Biden is wagging the dog over this?

While "Biden over-reacting" is certainly a possibility that doesn't explain the build of Russian troops on Ukraine's border, which is a objective fact. That doesn't mean Russia has to invade, marching troops around to annoy the neighbors without actually intending mayhem is something that goes way back into history (the two Koreas and the US have made it into an annual event, in fact), but it certainly can make people nervous.

And while the Ukrainian government is downplaying events and possible events civilian Ukrainians are, as I mentioned upthread, frequently finding reasons to be elsewhere. So... reaction is mixed?

Mostly I've been following this thread to get other peoples' take on the situation.
Ralin wrote: 2022-02-12 09:42am Also, am I the only one thinking that seeing as several major European countries really, really don't seem to want to get dragged into a war over this Biden forcing the issue would stand a great chance of breaking NATO as it currently exists? Especially after four years of the rest of NATO having to deal with the Deranged Cheeto Hitler administration?
Frankly, most of the US really, really doesn't want to get involved in yet another war, much less with Russia.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-12 10:06am So... you are suggesting that Biden is wagging the dog over this?
Honestly, dunno? But Biden is not someone I associate with bold, aggressive action and frankly I don't expect him to willingly get into a war with a country whose military can fight back and win. As much as some people in the government and media might want him to.
Frankly, most of the US really, really doesn't want to get involved in yet another war, much less with Russia.
Yeah well, since when has that mattered?
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28723
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Broomstick »

Ralin wrote: 2022-02-12 10:23am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-12 10:06am So... you are suggesting that Biden is wagging the dog over this?
Honestly, dunno? But Biden is not someone I associate with bold, aggressive action and frankly I don't expect him to willingly get into a war with a country whose military can fight back and win. As much as some people in the government and media might want him to.
Anyone in "government and media" who want an open war between US and Russia are flaming idiots. Or an open war between Russia and any nation in NATO.

In this instance, the new buddy-buddy vibe between the US right-wing (where most of the warhawks live) and Russia might actually be a good thing. For just this one thing. Not for other things.
Ralin wrote: 2022-02-12 10:23am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-12 10:06amFrankly, most of the US really, really doesn't want to get involved in yet another war, much less with Russia.
Yeah well, since when has that mattered?
Since pretty much never.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Solauren »

Ralin wrote: 2022-02-12 09:42am Also, am I the only one thinking that seeing as several major European countries really, really don't seem to want to get dragged into a war over this Biden forcing the issue would stand a great chance of breaking NATO as it currently exists? Especially after four years of the rest of NATO having to deal with the Deranged Cheeto Hitler administration?
That might actually be Russia's real intention. Ratchet up tension, get the United States to do something stupid, and possibly cause cracks in NATO.
And all they had to do is move some troops to do it.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28723
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Broomstick »

Move some troops and crank up the social media misinformation train, you mean.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-14 04:27am Move some troops and crank up the social media misinformation train, you mean.
The maskirovka continues as The Chekist is now making a big show of moving some tanks away from the Ukrainian border. What is he up to…
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3997
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Col. Crackpot wrote: 2022-02-15 07:11am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-02-14 04:27am Move some troops and crank up the social media misinformation train, you mean.
The maskirovka continues as The Chekist is now making a big show of moving some tanks away from the Ukrainian border. What is he up to…
Not that anybody is buying it, of course.
User avatar
Elfdart
The Anti-Shep
Posts: 10644
Joined: 2004-04-28 11:32pm

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Elfdart »

The media have had a raging hard-on to start another war ever since Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan gave them a case of blue balls. Do foreign correspondents nowadays get the kind of lavish expense accounts like Arnaud de Borchgrave got at Newsweek*? I can't think of any other plausible reason they keep beating war drums.

Special fucktard points to Richard Engel of MSNBC for being a fluffer on a neo-Nazi photo-op:



:finger:

Aside from the Ukrainian government itself blowing off US and UK media's hysterical coverage -coverage that reminds me of Peter Pan, where kids were told if they believe in fairies, they needed to clap their hands, so Tinkerbell would live ("Don't let Tinkerbell die!")- the biggest giveaway that the Russians had no intention of invading was that they used over 100,000 men to attack Georgia, who had maybe 10,000 soldiers plus 20,000 militia/police. Ukraine has over 200,000 men in their army -and they're much better equipped. So unless Putin more than quadruples his forces at the border, there's about as much chance of Russia invading Ukraine as there is of them invading Mars.

* The old joke among journalists was that there were four tiers of expense accounts: local, national, international and Arnaud de Borchgrave. He always stayed in 5-star hotels and nine times out of ten, worse more stylish, expensive clothes than even the worst kleptocrats. He was often allowed into confidential meetings because he was assumed to be a diplomat or some other kind of bigshot.
Image
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Elfdart wrote: 2022-02-16 11:40pm He was often allowed into confidential meetings because he was assumed to be a diplomat or some other kind of bigshot.
I have no idea who that person is, but sounds like giving him such a generous expense account was a good idea?
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Elfdart wrote: 2022-02-16 11:40pm The media have had a raging hard-on to start another war ever since Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan gave them a case of blue balls. Do foreign correspondents nowadays get the kind of lavish expense accounts like Arnaud de Borchgrave got at Newsweek*? I can't think of any other plausible reason they keep beating war drums.

Special fucktard points to Richard Engel of MSNBC for being a fluffer on a neo-Nazi photo-op:



:finger:

Aside from the Ukrainian government itself blowing off US and UK media's hysterical coverage -coverage that reminds me of Peter Pan, where kids were told if they believe in fairies, they needed to clap their hands, so Tinkerbell would live ("Don't let Tinkerbell die!")- the biggest giveaway that the Russians had no intention of invading was that they used over 100,000 men to attack Georgia, who had maybe 10,000 soldiers plus 20,000 militia/police. Ukraine has over 200,000 men in their army -and they're much better equipped. So unless Putin more than quadruples his forces at the border, there's about as much chance of Russia invading Ukraine as there is of them invading Mars.

* The old joke among journalists was that there were four tiers of expense accounts: local, national, international and Arnaud de Borchgrave. He always stayed in 5-star hotels and nine times out of ten, worse more stylish, expensive clothes than even the worst kleptocrats. He was often allowed into confidential meetings because he was assumed to be a diplomat or some other kind of bigshot.
Yes Russian state media has really been dialing up the “omg genocide!” nonsense lately.

Lick those checkist boots, tankie.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Col. Crackpot wrote: 2022-02-17 05:33am
Yes Russian state media has really been dialing up the “omg genocide!” nonsense lately.

Lick those checkist boots, tankie.
You just trolling at this point? Because I don't see anyone other than you talking about genocide.
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Ralin wrote: 2022-02-17 06:21am
Col. Crackpot wrote: 2022-02-17 05:33am
Yes Russian state media has really been dialing up the “omg genocide!” nonsense lately.

Lick those checkist boots, tankie.
You just trolling at this point? Because I don't see anyone other than you talking about genocide.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/ ... ide-a75780

Putin himself from the beginning played the genocide card
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status ... 2Fpage-336

The Ukrainian Foreign Minister confirming that civilian areas in Donbas have been shelled.

Not good at all. Hopefully this doesn’t result in further escalation.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Formless »

Get an education, or get fucked. The only one fooled by propaganda right now is you, Crackpot. No one in the know disputes that the NGO's in the Ukraine include a shitload of actual Nazis who have stated their intention of committing genocide/ethnocide, and if you don't want to take Russian media's word for it, read the Amnesty International reports or Human Rights Watch. Both agree that these groups are committing a bunch of war crimes, as well as crimes against aid workers and journalists, because that's the MO of Nazis. And keep in mind that Genocide is not a crime defined by the numbers, but by the intent. A single murder can technically be genocide, if the intent was to remove someone from this world because of their race or ethnicity; and Azov battalion clearly doesn't want to end the tally at one. They really do want to get rid of everyone of Russian ethnicity from the country by whatever means necessary, which would mean a bunch of murder even if they were just moving people off the border. The Ukrainian government hasn't done shit to get rid of these criminals, which is damning enough, but then again this isn't surprising given the previous prime minister's affiliations which suggests he was a closet Nazi as well. Why do you think so many of us are unimpressed by the support Biden has given for the Ukrainian government? They completely gloss over this, which is its own form of propaganda.

And besides, like Elfdart said, if the Russians wanted to invade, they would have had to move a lot more troops than they actually did to the border. That proves they have no intention of entering Ukraine. What it seems they are actually doing is war games in Belarus, plus putting, like, one artillery division on the border so they have the option of shelling Ukrainian forces without entering their territory if they feel like it. Which isn't the same thing as invasion. Yet that's the narrative the Biden administration keeps trying to forcefeed the American people, and even some journalists in the AP don't buy it this time, as its transparent that they're trying to do the same things Bush did to try selling us the invasion of Iraq. Only instead of lying about weapons of mass destruction, its lying about Russia's intent to invade. Don't ask us for proof, our saying it is proof enough! Dipshit.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Gandalf »

So I assume that the primary target of this invasion are the border parts of Ukraine that their government doesn't really control anyway.

It would make sense, because Putin gets to reintegrate some small areas into Moscow's sphere of influence and thus get a win over the west, and even Biden then gets political cover because it's not a big doomsday invasion.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4329
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Ralin »

Col. Crackpot wrote: 2022-02-17 06:43am https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/ ... ide-a75780

Putin himself from the beginning played the genocide card
And that has what to do with Elfdart's post?
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10223
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Oh for Christ’s sake obviously the Azov battalion is problematic. As the husband and father of a wife and daughter descended from Ukrainian Jews in the Pale of Settlement I find them repugnant. But using its existence to justify Russia’s imperialism is just as much bullshit as Saddam Hussein supposedly having WMD’s.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

Post by Crazedwraith »

Formless wrote: 2022-02-17 07:17am And besides, like Elfdart said, if the Russians wanted to invade, they would have had to move a lot more troops than they actually did to the border. That proves they have no intention of entering Ukraine. What it seems they are actually doing is war games in Belarus, plus putting, like, one artillery division on the border so they have the option of shelling Ukrainian forces without entering their territory if they feel like it. Which isn't the same thing as invasion. Yet that's the narrative the Biden administration keeps trying to forcefeed the American people, and even some journalists in the AP don't buy it this time, as its transparent that they're trying to do the same things Bush did to try selling us the invasion of Iraq. Only instead of lying about weapons of mass destruction, its lying about Russia's intent to invade. Don't ask us for proof, our saying it is proof enough! Dipshit.
Okay, to what end do you think Biden is doing this for then? Because he can't actually want to, say, invade Russia, right? Just to distract from other issues? I know BoJo must be loving the chance to play the statesman and talk about something other than Downing Street parties.

I admit to not having read enough about this but is there another purpose Russia could put the forces to if you think it's insufficient for a full on invasion? Like snap up another chunk of disputed regions.
Locked