Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by bilateralrope »

USA Today
There will be no fans at the Tokyo Olympics.

The announcement Thursday followed the declaration of a new state of emergency, which takes effect Monday and goes through Aug. 22. The Games begin July 23 and end Aug. 8.

"The priority will be to determine safe and secure Games,” Tokyo 2020 president Seiko Hashimoto said at a news conference following a decision by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government, the government of Japan, the International Olympic Committee and International Paralympic Committee.

"We wanted a full stadium so community people could get involved in welcoming the athletes so we could have a full presentation of the power of sports," she added. "However, now faced with COVID-19 we have no other choice but to hold the Games in a limited way."

There is still a chance fans could be allowed at events held outside of Tokyo in areas that are not under a state of emergency.

"We will discuss," Olympic minister Tamayo Marukawa said.

While a state of emergency sounds dire, it does not mean Tokyo is under lockdown. Bars and restaurants are prohibited from serving alcohol but remain open, as do schools and businesses.

There are even other professional sporting events taking place, though the number of fans is capped. Asked why fans are allowed at, say, baseball games and not the Olympics, Tokyo 2020 CEO Toshiro Muto said the size of the events are different.

"Ticket holders (for the Olympics) are existing all across the country, and several competitions and events are held simultaneously," he said. "Professional sports, they are very popular I know. But in the case of the Olympic Games, the degree of popularity and size of movement of people would be so large."

Foreign fans were banned in March, and organizers repeatedly delayed a decision on whether to allow Japanese fans. On June 21, organizers announced there would be a limited number of spectators, with venue capacity capped at 50 percent and a maximum of 10,000 fans.

The restrictions for those in attendance were to be severe, including no cheering or chanting and no sales of alcohol. Organizers also asked fans to go straight home after events, fearing people would gather at bars and restaurants afterward.

But Hashimoto warned then that the Games could still be held without fans if cases continued to rise in Tokyo, and they have.

Tokyo reported 896 new cases on Thursday, up from 673 a week earlier. It's the 19th consecutive day that cases have topped the mark set seven days prior. New cases on Wednesday hit 920, the highest total since 1,010 were reported on May 13.

"It’s changed one way or the other on several occasions regarding spectators. But day in and day out, the infection status changes. It’s so fluid," Hashimoto acknowledged. "(The decision) was postponed and postponed. I do do some soul searching about that. But in this infectious status, I hope you understand the plight we were placed in."

Hashimoto, who competed in seven Olympics as a cyclist and speedskater and won a bronze medal in the 1,500 meters at the 1992 Winter Games in Albertville, said the lack of spectators won't diminish the spectacle of the Olympics. In recent years, the Games have essentially become a made-for-TV event.

"Athletes will do their best," Hashimoto she said. "Direct observation is not possible, maybe. But through screens and other ways ... their fantastic performances will be enjoyed by the people of the world."

But the announcement is still a blow for Tokyo organizers, and will add to the cost of the Games for the Japanese people. Local organizers get the revenue from ticket sales, and Tokyo 2020 had originally budgeted that to be $800 million.

"We will see a decrease," Muto acknowledged.

The shortfall will now have to be made up by the Japanese. The official cost of the Games is already $15.4 billion, but it’s believed to be much higher — perhaps twice as much.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Why are these games still happening despite the pandemic ?
Because the IOC refuses to let them be canceled.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by Elheru Aran »

Is there anything actually preventing the host country from going "meh, nah, we're done actually" and just... refusing to have the events actually take place? Like, shutting down the stadiums and all that?
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Elheru Aran wrote: 2021-07-09 07:13pm Is there anything actually preventing the host country from going "meh, nah, we're done actually" and just... refusing to have the events actually take place? Like, shutting down the stadiums and all that?
All the money they've already spent, cowardice, not actually caring about their citizens, etc. From the bit I know about how fucked up the organization and rules governing the Olympics are I wouldn't be surprised if they could straight up sue national governments for damages or something like that.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Good.

Maybe this will start a backlash that will at the least see the IOC and the Olympics themselves examined (at minimum) or finally put paid to them all together and see something new created.

Personally, I'd like to see the thing shut down (I view it as a colossal waste of time and money, but that's me), but I'll take reform so it's more about actual competition and sport, and less about rampant commercialization and price gouging.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Solauren wrote: 2021-07-09 09:22pm Personally, I'd like to see the thing shut down (I view it as a colossal waste of time and money, but that's me), but I'll take reform so it's more about actual competition and sport, and less about rampant commercialization and price gouging.
I think it would be nice if countries currently engaged wars were barred from sending athletes a la the classic Olympics.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Ralin wrote: 2021-07-09 09:42pm
Solauren wrote: 2021-07-09 09:22pm Personally, I'd like to see the thing shut down (I view it as a colossal waste of time and money, but that's me), but I'll take reform so it's more about actual competition and sport, and less about rampant commercialization and price gouging.
I think it would be nice if countries currently engaged wars were barred from sending athletes a la the classic Olympics.
Agreed. Go one step forward, and ban them from all international competitions (and don't let their competitors 'border cross either')
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by GuppyShark »

Ralin wrote: 2021-07-09 08:55pm
Elheru Aran wrote: 2021-07-09 07:13pm Is there anything actually preventing the host country from going "meh, nah, we're done actually" and just... refusing to have the events actually take place? Like, shutting down the stadiums and all that?
All the money they've already spent, cowardice, not actually caring about their citizens, etc. From the bit I know about how fucked up the organization and rules governing the Olympics are I wouldn't be surprised if they could straight up sue national governments for damages or something like that.
That's in the article and is the reason they cannot cancel them.

"It signs a contract with host cities, as it did with Tokyo in 2013, and “entrusts the planning, organizing, financing and staging of the Games to the city.” But the contract, which legal experts describe as very “one-sided,” gives only the IOC the power to terminate it. The city of Tokyo could unilaterally decide to break the contract, but, according to several international sports lawyers who spoke with Yahoo Sports, doing so could cost Tokyo billions of dollars in damages." (my emphasis)

A few things. First, there is such a thing as 'international sports lawyers'. Second, in which court? Turns out, Switzerland. https://www.2020games.metro.tokyo.lg.jp ... act-EN.pdf

I guess the choices are A) let the games proceed with empty stadiums or B) lose a ton of money and/or be barred from ever participating in the Olympics again.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by bilateralrope »

Solauren wrote: 2021-07-09 09:22pm Good.

Maybe this will start a backlash that will at the least see the IOC and the Olympics themselves examined (at minimum) or finally put paid to them all together and see something new created.

Personally, I'd like to see the thing shut down (I view it as a colossal waste of time and money, but that's me), but I'll take reform so it's more about actual competition and sport, and less about rampant commercialization and price gouging.
Think about the stories you heard about how previous Olympics treated locals. I doubt we will see a backlash unless we get a major covid outbreak among the athletes. Even then, I'm not sure.

At best, we will get more of a shift away from democracies hosting them.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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So yeah. Because they're weak, cowardly and don't care about the welfare of their citizens.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Ralin wrote: 2021-07-10 08:11am So yeah. Because they're weak, cowardly and don't care about the welfare of their citizens.
Did you miss this part?
"The city of Tokyo could unilaterally decide to break the contract, but, according to several international sports lawyers who spoke with Yahoo Sports, doing so could cost Tokyo billions of dollars in damages."

The IOC is the ONLY ONE that can cancel the Games without penalty.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by MKSheppard »

Honestly what is the problem here?

Just require that all Olympians arrive in Japan about 20 days prior to the Olympics and keep them isolated in the Olympic Village.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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What could the IOC do if the Japanese Federal government enacted a travel ban due to COVID, and told the IOC to "fuck off, we didn't sign those contracts, and if we'd known how one sided they were, we wouldn't have let Tokyo either".
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-07-10 10:49am Honestly what is the problem here?

Just require that all Olympians arrive in Japan about 20 days prior to the Olympics and keep them isolated in the Olympic Village.
There already limited to the hotel and whatever venue there competing at. There not actually allowed to wonder the village.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Solauren wrote: 2021-07-10 11:54amWhat could the IOC do if the Japanese Federal government enacted a travel ban due to COVID, and told the IOC to "fuck off, we didn't sign those contracts, and if we'd known how one sided they were, we wouldn't have let Tokyo either".
Activate the penalty clause and bury Tokyo's provincial government in debts, forcing the federal government to either find the money for a bailout or accept the massive hit their economy will take if their capital and the most heavily-populated prefecture in the entire country defaults on the payments and gets its credit rating trashed, unless they can somehow persuade the IOC to cancel on its own initiative. And doing that might require the sort of tactics that run the risk of blowback that would be even more damaging if it were to get into the press.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-07-10 10:49am Honestly what is the problem here?

Just require that all Olympians arrive in Japan about 20 days prior to the Olympics and keep them isolated in the Olympic Village.
I was hoping the lack of ticket sales (and refunds if already sold), would kill any interest in it on TV, and hurt the Olympics financially, thereby having member countries demanding an audit, and other reviews.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by Bedlam »

Solauren wrote: 2021-07-10 02:43pm
MKSheppard wrote: 2021-07-10 10:49am Honestly what is the problem here?

Just require that all Olympians arrive in Japan about 20 days prior to the Olympics and keep them isolated in the Olympic Village.
I was hoping the lack of ticket sales (and refunds if already sold), would kill any interest in it on TV, and hurt the Olympics financially, thereby having member countries demanding an audit, and other reviews.
I think that's a bit backwards, people want to see the Olympics, the lack of tickets means that more people will want to see it on TV. Ok the actual number of physical spectators would be tiny compared to the TV views but it won't reduce the number of people watching on TV, afterall they're watching the participants, not the crowds.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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Bedlam wrote: 2021-07-10 02:55pm
Solauren wrote: 2021-07-10 02:43pm
MKSheppard wrote: 2021-07-10 10:49am Honestly what is the problem here?

Just require that all Olympians arrive in Japan about 20 days prior to the Olympics and keep them isolated in the Olympic Village.
I was hoping the lack of ticket sales (and refunds if already sold), would kill any interest in it on TV, and hurt the Olympics financially, thereby having member countries demanding an audit, and other reviews.
I think that's a bit backwards, people want to see the Olympics, the lack of tickets means that more people will want to see it on TV. Ok the actual number of physical spectators would be tiny compared to the TV views but it won't reduce the number of people watching on TV, afterall they're watching the participants, not the crowds.
Have you tried watching a sporting event without a crowd? You literally feel like you're just watching a P.E Class.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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LadyTevar wrote: 2021-07-10 10:27am Did you miss this part?
"The city of Tokyo could unilaterally decide to break the contract, but, according to several international sports lawyers who spoke with Yahoo Sports, doing so could cost Tokyo billions of dollars in damages."

The IOC is the ONLY ONE that can cancel the Games without penalty.
Did you miss that Japan is a sovereign country that can and should tell any other country, much less a sports committee, that they won't do something that endangers their population and national security and that they can get fucked if they expect Japan to pay them a fine for doing so?
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by Elheru Aran »

Ralin wrote: 2021-07-10 06:19pm
LadyTevar wrote: 2021-07-10 10:27am Did you miss this part?
"The city of Tokyo could unilaterally decide to break the contract, but, according to several international sports lawyers who spoke with Yahoo Sports, doing so could cost Tokyo billions of dollars in damages."

The IOC is the ONLY ONE that can cancel the Games without penalty.
Did you miss that Japan is a sovereign country that can and should tell any other country, much less a sports committee, that they won't do something that endangers their population and national security and that they can get fucked if they expect Japan to pay them a fine for doing so?
To be pedantic (as if we're ever anything else here):

My understanding is that Japan, the country, did not sign the contract with the IOC. The City of Tokyo did. The City of Tokyo is therefore, in the IOC's view and according to the legalese of the contracts, responsible for the Olympics technically, not Japan. However, Tokyo is still part of Japan, obviously...

This therefore puts Japan in something of a position similar to a 'co-signer' to a lease. If Tokyo defaults on the IOC and therefore gets slammed with penalties, Japan is left holding the bag, so to speak.

Which is not to say I don't agree with you; I do, actually. I think Japan, and pretty much any other country, should be allowed to tell the IOC to get fucked under the circumstances. Something like the UN would be one thing, since that's supposed to be a global cooperative organization of states, but the IOC is a private organization that pretty much exists to hold the Olympics and... that's about it. However, it seems they've arranged things legally to where they can pretty much hold whoever they contract with over a barrel, despite unforeseen circumstances such as global pandemics.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by LaCroix »

Actually, such an one sided contract may very well deemed illegal and void.
It just needs to be examined if there was any duress (already paid expenses, etc) and/or local contract laws violated.
Most countries do not accept contracts where only one party can cancel, and or puts the other party under steep penalties for cancelling.
Also - "act of god", "national emergency", "health crisis" will be a thing where the contracts could be dissolved due to becoming impossible to fulfil, with no blame to the party.

All just a question of legalese...

Your turn, Japan...
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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In order to cancel and be covered by insurance both parties have to agree not just the IOC or Japan.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

Post by LaCroix »

Not really - "act of god" is a standard legal term used when extraordinary circumstances made it impossible to fulfil a contract, and thus, no penalty shall be applied to the party unable to fulfil...

For example - if an earthquake were to devastate Tokio - could the IOC demand penalties for the olympics not being held?
A pandemic is in the same legal category. The IOC can not force a city to take actions that will directly lead to people getting ill or dying if they can be simply avoided. It is illegal in pretty much every nation of this planet to use a contract to force someone to endanger health and life of other people in order to fulfil it, especially when being advised of it and being given options.

So If Tokio reduces attendance because of security concerns, the IOC can't do anything about it.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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LaCroix wrote: 2021-07-13 04:18am Not really - "act of god" is a standard legal term used when extraordinary circumstances made it impossible to fulfil a contract, and thus, no penalty shall be applied to the party unable to fulfil...
Good example of an "act of god" that's not a major crisis (and thus more relatable) lets say you had contract that you should attend a certain event, but before that event you got into an accident that wasn't your fault and you could not predict in anyway and this prevents you from attending for example a car you were a passenger in got hit by drunk driver and you were hospitalized because of that.

Since there is no rational way you could have predicted that a drunk driver would hit the car you were in at this time and place, you can't really be punished for breaking the contract as it was not your fault (and the drunk driver can't also be punished for that as they weren't part of the contract) and thus the contract would be deemed void.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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LaCroix wrote: 2021-07-13 04:18am A pandemic is in the same legal category. The IOC can not force a city to take actions that will directly lead to people getting ill or dying if they can be simply avoided. It is illegal in pretty much every nation of this planet to use a contract to force someone to endanger health and life of other people in order to fulfil it, especially when being advised of it and being given options
How does that change when Japan is already putting more restrictions on the Olympics than other sporting events ?
There are even other professional sporting events taking place, though the number of fans is capped. Asked why fans are allowed at, say, baseball games and not the Olympics, Tokyo 2020 CEO Toshiro Muto said the size of the events are different.
If I was a judge and Japan was arguing that Covid was serious enough to cancel the olympics, but not serious enough to cancel other sporting events, I'd wonder if Japan was being honest about their reasons.
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Re: Tokyo Olympics to be held without fans after new COVID-19 state of emergency declared

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bilateralrope wrote: 2021-07-13 07:32am
LaCroix wrote: 2021-07-13 04:18am A pandemic is in the same legal category. The IOC can not force a city to take actions that will directly lead to people getting ill or dying if they can be simply avoided. It is illegal in pretty much every nation of this planet to use a contract to force someone to endanger health and life of other people in order to fulfil it, especially when being advised of it and being given options
How does that change when Japan is already putting more restrictions on the Olympics than other sporting events ?
There are even other professional sporting events taking place, though the number of fans is capped. Asked why fans are allowed at, say, baseball games and not the Olympics, Tokyo 2020 CEO Toshiro Muto said the size of the events are different.
If I was a judge and Japan was arguing that Covid was serious enough to cancel the olympics, but not serious enough to cancel other sporting events, I'd wonder if Japan was being honest about their reasons.
The difference between a normal sporting event and the Olympics is that the former is normal entertainment for local consumption and the latter is a limited time tourist attraction. It attracts people from all over the place, oftentimes all over the world, but most of the tourists are expected to be Japanese in this case. The Japanese tend to vacation in other parts of Japan, even though its not a particularly large country. Thus the Olympics would threaten to not only be a hotspot for Covid, but also a potential super-spreader event for the entire country. Other sporting events will draw in crowds, but they will all be from the local precinct or prefecture at the largest. So its not as big of a deal. Still big enough one could argue that all the baseball fields should be shut down, but its not as compelling as limiting access to or even shutting down the Olympic games.
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