Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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His Divine Shadow
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by His Divine Shadow »

madd0c0t0r2 wrote: 2022-09-06 07:32am https://www.ft.com/content/441bb5c8-4af ... 64731f7170

Editor of the ft calls for solidarity and massive market intervention in energy prices

So, what is to be done? Torsten Bell has argued in the FT that we need to cap energy prices at below the current market rates. I agree. Indeed, we need to do this, while also simultaneously targeting assistance at the most vulnerable, since it is certainly sensible, in terms of incentives and limiting the fiscal costs, to allow a significant, albeit constrained, rise in prices.

The UK has the substantial advantage that it is not overwhelmingly dependent on foreign sources of gas. On the contrary, almost half of total supply comes from the UK continental shelf. Furthermore, only 44 per cent of electricity is generated by gas, with another 43 per cent coming from “zero-carbon” sources (nuclear and renewables).



while imported gas is a big tail, there is no reason at all why it should wag the energy dog. As an emergency measure, the government can and should impose price controls on domestic gas producers and generators of nuclear and renewable electricity. These prices should be substantially higher than prewar, but not at today’s “Putin levels”. The government should also subsidise the price of gas imports to these controlled levels. These controls (and subsidies) should end when prices of imports fall back, as they surely will.

The government will also need to fund the envisaged subsidies and targeted assistance to the vulnerable. Again, as in wartime, this should be done through additional borrowing and taxes on the well off justified as a special and temporary “solidarity levy”. This will not go down well with many members of the Conservative party. Yet the new prime minister needs to remember that this electorate need never again be their concern. The nation as a whole definitely is.

This is war. The government must act. Tinkering is not enough. Go big. Be bold.

Doesn't seem like a very Liz Truss thing to do...
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Zaune »

And now it would seem that upon being introduced to our new Prime Minister, the Queen has decided this would be a good time to die.

An understandable reaction, I think, if not a very helpful one.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

Well Ill and the family rushing to her side. So not dead yet but that is very ominous.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


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madd0c0t0r2
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

The only conclusion I can draw was she wanted to ensure Boris didn't speak at her funeral
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

Anyone want to place bets on the chosen coronation name of Charles?
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Arthur would be interesting.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Just been confirmed as Charles III
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Coop D'etat »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ng-ukraine

From a month ago, but worth revisiting in light of recent Ukrainian success. On this issue, Corbyn remains objectively pro-fascist.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

I don't konw; the suggestion that maybe we should be doing more to bring peace to the region isn't without merit or a point.

On the other hand, not giving them weapons isn't going to bring about a ceasefire either it's going to bring about a russian victory. So yeah, that's as Starmer said exceptionally naïve. I certainly don't think Corbyn saying it to be pro-russian though.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

That was my thinking on reading it as well - seems to be the kind of remarks that you can slant to whatever viewpoint you want. It does seems pretty naive though - as a non-combatant country, I'm struggling to see what more we could be doing to bring about peace, especially since the RUssians don't seem very interested in a ceasefire.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Coop D'etat »

That's giving him a mountain of benefit of the doubt, and political leaders don't get a mountain of benefit of the doubt from anyone but core supporters.

Going forward, this is important, because whether or not you'd be prepared to do something like provide material support to a democracy being invaded by a dictatorship is pretty key part of whether the voters think you're up for the job of PM. This is usually a gimmee of a test for any leading politico, but failing it is usually fatal.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2022-09-11 01:39pm That was my thinking on reading it as well - seems to be the kind of remarks that you can slant to whatever viewpoint you want. It does seems pretty naive though - as a non-combatant country, I'm struggling to see what more we could be doing to bring about peace, especially since the RUssians don't seem very interested in a ceasefire.
Yeah Corbyn's pretty naive on this point, but he's a lifelong pacifist so it's in line with his character.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

He's also in no way a leading politico or potential PM anymore. So it doesn't really matter if he fails a hypothetical test for it or not.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Coop D'etat »

The sense that he would was a pretty key reason he failed with his two chances to win the premiership. Removing all doubt isn't going to much for his political heirs either.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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Yes? And?
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Coop D'etat »

That the Corbynites misjudged the value of the man as a standard bearer remains relevant, both in the UK and to his outsized foreign fanbase. Being reminded of this is part of the process of doing better next time.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

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His Divine Shadow wrote: 2022-09-11 01:44pm
Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2022-09-11 01:39pm That was my thinking on reading it as well - seems to be the kind of remarks that you can slant to whatever viewpoint you want. It does seems pretty naive though - as a non-combatant country, I'm struggling to see what more we could be doing to bring about peace, especially since the RUssians don't seem very interested in a ceasefire.
Yeah Corbyn's pretty naive on this point, but he's a lifelong pacifist so it's in line with his character.
True. "Give peace a chance" doesn't really work if one side ain't listening.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by Crazedwraith »

Stick to your morals and principles and you won't get elected isn't a lesson most politicians seem to need.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Well Liz Truss is already making controversial decisions either poorly justified or not justified at all. Like not implementing a 'windfall tax' along with the energy price cap. And removing the cap on banker's bonuses (currently set at double their annual salary), because that would 'drive growth'. Somehow. If they increase the tax on those bonuses it might actually do some good.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-09-20 06:58pm Well Liz Truss is already making controversial decisions either poorly justified or not justified at all. Like not implementing a 'windfall tax' along with the energy price cap. And removing the cap on banker's bonuses (currently set at double their annual salary), because that would 'drive growth'. Somehow. If they increase the tax on those bonuses it might actually do some good.
trickle down economics again, boo.

it says something when the Finanical Times is calling out inequality
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-09-20 06:58pm Well Liz Truss is already making controversial decisions either poorly justified or not justified at all. Like not implementing a 'windfall tax' along with the energy price cap. And removing the cap on banker's bonuses (currently set at double their annual salary), because that would 'drive growth'. Somehow. If they increase the tax on those bonuses it might actually do some good.
trickle down economics again, boo.

it says something when the Finanical Times is calling out inequality
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

delete double post.
Last edited by madd0c0t0r2 on 2022-09-21 06:27am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Trickle down economics explained
The thing with trickle down economics is, if you imagine a tower of champagne flutes being filled from the top. For it to work those glasses at the top have to be limited, be able to fill up so the excess champagne overflows to the glasses lower down the tower. Removing caps on banker bonuses for example is the sort of policy that runs directly counter to this concept.

Otherwise its like a bucket sitting on thimbles. And the bucket has a hosepipe overflow to a swimming pool (cayman islands?)
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Re: Brexit and not very united kingdom politics II

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

New budget and it favours the rich the most, not only did they remove the cap on banker's bonuses but they reduced the tax they would pay. So now the Tories aren't even pretending they're not helping the rich get richer.
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