Situation in Paris

[Crown]

Here's The Guardian Live stream; click

Situation so far;

• Multiple shootings and different locations, fatalities reported.
• Multiple explosions heard near the Stade de France where France are playing Germany, President Hollande has been evacuated from the stadium, nothing to suggest that the shootings and the explosions (which could be grenades) are linked at this time.
• Police report hostages have been taken at Paris Bataclan concert hall.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd be very surprised if they weren't linked.

The BBC is saying 18 are dead. I hope it doesn't go up.

While the immediate concern is the people in the path of these attacks, of course, I'm also dreading the likely response. More heavy-handed authoritarianism, more xenophobia if it turns out to be Islamic terrorists (and an attack on this scale would pretty much rule out lone nuts, wouldn't it?). And said xenophobia will most likely be directed, in practice, primarily at innocent minorities and the refugees fleeing to Europe.

I hope France has the courage not to succumb to such mistakes in the face of these horrific attacks.

Anyway, my thoughts are with the French people.

[Crown]

I'd be very surprised if they weren't linked.

The BBC is saying 18 are dead. I hope it doesn't go up.

While the immediate concern is the people in the path of these attacks, of course, I'm also dreading the likely response. More heavy-handed authoritarianism, more xenophobia if it turns out to be Islamic terrorists (and an attack on this scale would pretty much rule out lone nuts, wouldn't it?). And said xenophobia will most likely be directed, in practice, primarily at innocent minorities and the refugees fleeing to Europe.

I hope France has the courage not to succumb to such mistakes in the face of these horrific attacks.

Anyway, my thoughts are with the French people.

I write this with equal measure of sadness and pithy sarcasm; I'm kind of hoping it's a gang war. It would just make a nice change of pace.

[The Romulan Republic]

The scale of the attacks, the apparently coordinated nature, and the fact that the President of France was at one of the locations targeted definitely suggests a large terrorist group.

Who, exactly, is guilty remains to be seen, however.

But of course, everybody is going to be thinking of ISIS.

[The Romulan Republic]

The BBC now has the death toll at over 30, with 100 hostages. Jesus.

And fulfilling my fears about the response, the BBC had on a guest (I think he was an ex-CIA director) blaming refugees for contributing to the attack happening.

Here we go, nice little pretext for all the Neo-Nazis, preying on France's dead to advance their agenda.

[madd0ct0r]

BBC now saying 24, possibly 35, possibly 100 inside the concert hall.

Drive by shooting of Cambodian restaurant then hostages taken in concert hall.
Also grenade attacks at stadium, possibly the president as targetm

[The Romulan Republic]

The number is now apparently up to sixty (I didn't see it, so I'm going off of what my Mum told me).

Its absolutely horrible.

[Crown]

Numbers are gonna fluctuate for a while now so I'd hold off until there is something more solid before quoting anything, but a new report came in of another shooting now at a shopping centre*.

The gunmen of at least one of the original shootings are still at large, so could be possible.


EDIT :: * at les Halles

[The Romulan Republic]

This strongly reminds me of the Mumbai attack back in 2008.

[Crazedwraith]

If this is terrorism, its an odd coincidence it happens on the same day as the killing of 'Jihadi John' via drone strike.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, the day after, at least.

But I very much doubt they're connected. I don't think they could have put this together so fast if it was just a response to Jihadi John being killed. Something this big would have been being planned for a long time.

[Joun_Lord]

I wonder if this is at all related to the Paris train attacks or did they ever find out if that guy was a lone nutter who failed so hard he made an AK jam or part of some group?

I really hope this whole thing is media overblown, that its just some "normal" shooting with a death toll considerably smaller unrelated to the explosion.

I know the media likes to hype shit and connect shit with no connections so I hope thats what it is.

Really fucked up though I'm just wishing it was "normal" shooting.

[Crown]

Hollande has just ordered all the borders closed, announces a state of emergency across France.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hollande has just ordered all the borders closed, announces a state of emergency across France.

Is that a typical response for something like this? To put an entire nation in a state of emergency and close the borders?

Edit: I just hope this is short-lived, and does not become an excuse to, for example, permanently close the borders to refugees.

[Crown]

Hollande has just ordered all the borders closed, announces a state of emergency across France.

Is that a typical response for something like this? To put an entire nation in a state of emergency and close the borders?

No, not typical at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ah, so heavy handed authoritarianism it is, then.

[salm]

As long as these losers are orders of magnitudes less lethal than routine shit such as traffic it is probably best not to pay much attention to them. Lets just ignore them.

[The Romulan Republic]

As long as these losers are orders of magnitudes less lethal than routine shit such as traffic it is probably best not to pay much attention to them. Lets just ignore them.

Preposterous.

You can't just ignore mass murder. An atrocity is not insignificant because their are other things that kill more people (over a longer period of time). And no government, anywhere, ever, would ignore something like this.

Their are options between authoritarian crackdowns and ignoring it.

[salm]

Not giving fuckers like this publicity is what experts usually recommend. Unfortunately that is impossible because news companies want money.

ps: Terrorists kill very few people over a long period of time. So fuck it.

[Mr Bean]

The BBC now has the death toll at over 30, with 100 hostages. Jesus.

And fulfilling my fears about the response, the BBC had on a guest (I think he was an ex-CIA director) blaming refugees for contributing to the attack happening.

Here we go, nice little pretext for all the Neo-Nazis, preying on France's dead to advance their agenda.

France nothing, every single European country is going to react the same way blaming the refugees, what were once ordinary people fleeing warfare are now dangerous foreigners harboring dangerous radicals.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not giving fuckers like this publicity is what experts usually recommend. Unfortunately that is impossible because news companies want money.

ps: Terrorists kill very few people over a long period of time. So fuck it.

That sounds nice in theory, but the counterargument is obvious- that the media has not only the right to freedom of expression but an obligation to report the news, and that people have a right to be kept informed about a terrorist attack, especially when it is in their own country and city.

A responsible journalism would try to refrain from excessive speculation and sensationalism, but to ask them not to cover it at all is unreasonable.

Mr Bean, that's a little bleak and cynical even by my standards. Not everyone is a xenophobe, or likely to succumb to such a mindset under pressure. But this will certainly give the already dangerously strong right wing xenophobes in Europe another weapon, sadly.

[salm]

I am not asking the, media to ignore this. I am hoping that people who read about it dont get too concerned about it. Terrorism is a minor problem compared to traffic that gets blown out of proportion. And even traffic is a minor problem.

[The Romulan Republic]

Concern is reasonable. I'm concerned about the people in France, and the larger reprecussions attack this could have. The all-too-common responses of prejudice, warmongering, and authoritarianism are not reasonable, however. I agree with reminding people to keep even something this horrific in perspective, though I also recognize that in the immediate aftermath, at least, it may not be possible for people to do so.

Anyway, on another note, I'd like to remind myself, and everyone else, that to the best of my knowledge we don't technically have confirmation of who did it yet or what their motives were.

The scope of the attack, the choice of targets, the similarity to other attacks, and other recent events definitely strongly suggest an Islamist terrorist group such as IS, but I'll wait for definite confirmation before deciding that's the case.

[Crown]

The Twittersphere is reporting that Parisian taxi drivers are taking people home for free, so there is some uplifting news. Also the hashtag #portouverte (Open Door) is trending for people that need a place to crash for the night if they can't get home.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its always nice to see people doing the right thing in a crisis. Whatever the cynics say, a lot of people will at least try to do the right thing.