Situation in Paris

[Crown]

Reports are suggesting that the Police have made a move on Bataclan already. Looks like they're not waiting for a long negotiation on this issue. I will stress this isn't confirmed.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Parisian press are reporting (unconfirmed) that the Paris police are storming the Eagles of Death Metal show at the present, with 60 hostages inside.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I believe they went in because people were calling out and telling authorities that the terrorists were killing hostages.

[The Romulan Republic]

If it appears that the terrorists are just going to kill the hostages, they don't really have much time for negotiating. In that event, I wouldn't fault the French police for acting at once. I hope they save as many people as possible.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Paris police have confirmed it.

[TithonusSyndrome]

One French TV source is reporting (unconfirmed) that the operation on Bataclan is over with two hostage-takers dead.

[TithonusSyndrome]

President Hollande: "We know where the attacks are coming from. We know who the criminals are. We know who the terrorists are."

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If it appears that the terrorists are just going to kill the hostages, they don't really have much time for negotiating. In that event, I wouldn't fault the French police for acting at once. I hope they save as many people as possible.

I don't believe they meant to keep hostages. They just wanted to shoot the whole lot of them.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Reports are that they were throwing explosives into the crowd.

[TithonusSyndrome]

An Arabic hashtag on twitter rendered roughly as "Paris is in flames" has emerged to celebrate and laud the attacks, linked to ISIS supporters.

[atg]

BBC saying 100 dead at the theatre, 40 elsewhere.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

BBC saying 100 dead at the theatre, 40 elsewhere.

I'm watching the BBC news feed, there's claims that the terrorists were using grenades. So far, all that's been revealed is 3 attackers have been killed and that France has closed its borders.

It would make sense that most of the dead would have happened at the start since you have a large number of people in a confined area, the first few minutes must have been an absolute slaughter

[TithonusSyndrome]

Obama and Trudeau have made statements of condemnation and support, others presumably to follow.

[atg]

BBC saying 100 dead at the theatre, 40 elsewhere.

I'm watching the BBC news feed, there's claims that the terrorists were using grenades. So far, all that's been revealed is 3 attackers have been killed and that France has closed its borders.

It would make sense that most of the dead would have happened at the start since you have a large number of people in a confined area, the first few minutes must have been an absolute slaughter

I actually mixed it up - it was Sky News saying those figures - apparently quoting a French ministry.

[TithonusSyndrome]

The mother of Eagles of Death Metal drummer Juilian Dorio has told the Washington Post that all band members are safe. Crew members appear to be mostly accounted for.

[The Romulan Republic]

President Hollande: "We know where the attacks are coming from. We know who the criminals are. We know who the terrorists are."

Then why not simply say who? Or did he?

[TithonusSyndrome]

He did not. I prefer to believe that the information is sensitive at the moment, but of course he could just be bluffing.

[Simon_Jester]

Hollande has just ordered all the borders closed, announces a state of emergency across France.

Is that a typical response for something like this? To put an entire nation in a state of emergency and close the borders?

No, not typical at all.

If the French government felt there was reason to expect attacks in other parts of France, or larger-scale followup attacks in Paris, declaring a state of emergency might be reasonable. And closing the borders helps make sure that no members of the terrorist organization can escape the country quickly- which is a serious concern under the circumstances.

Ah, so heavy handed authoritarianism it is, then.

I'd say it's heavy-handed but not authoritarian. A republic can reasonably respond with very harsh measures when its safety is threatened, although we haven't seen so much of this in the past several decades of relative peace.

France's actions may be excessive under the circumstances but they're not evidence of Hollande having fantasies of being a dictator or anything.

Not giving fuckers like this publicity is what experts usually recommend. Unfortunately that is impossible because news companies want money.

ps: Terrorists kill very few people over a long period of time. So fuck it.

The other problem with this is that a national government can't really be seen to just ignore a violent attack by foreigners. The single most basic thing every nation's citizens expect from government, even from dictatorships, is that the government will protect them against foreign invasion. Because before you can have freedom and prosperity and all the other things we want out of government... you have to have basic security, you have to have a guarantee that you will not just be killed.

Citizens may tolerate poor social services, lack of environmental regulations, capricious laws, and incompetent governors... but they do not like governments that will just lie back and let foreigners murder them.

The Twittersphere is reporting that Parisian taxi drivers are taking people home for free, so there is some uplifting news. Also the hashtag #portouverte (Open Door) is trending for people that need a place to crash for the night if they can't get home.

Paris Taxis: reacting gloriously to help save the city in moments of national crisis since 1914!

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm not saying Hollande wants to be a dictator.

But his approach, while perhaps understandable, is all too reminiscent of the turn towards espionage and reduced civil rights America took after 911.

Actually, I don't recall weather America declared a national state of emergency or closed its borders after 911. I know planes were grounded though (quite reasonably).

[mr friendly guy]

Australian news reported 158 killed and at least 5 attackers have been killed.

[Kingmaker]

Are they actually closing the borders? The actual press release I found said they were bringing back border checks, which is not quite the same.

[The Romulan Republic]

The wave of hatred (including outright advocating genocide on a scale surpassing any other in history) I've seen across much of the internet following the attacks in Paris is sickening.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ah, so heavy handed authoritarianism it is, then.

Why is that heavy handed authoritarianism?

Closing the borders will make it more difficult for those that were involved in this attack to leave. Maybe not in a significant way but right now his people will expect him to do something and closing the borders isn't that invasive. At least in my opinion.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm.

You made a fair point about catching people fleeing, I suppose (though from what I've read, all those who took part in the attacks are dead), though I'm afraid it will be used as a pretext to perpetually close the borders against refugees.

But a nationwide state of emergency? I could understand declaring one in the area of Paris, certainly. But nationwide?

Then again, I suppose France is a relatively small nation, territorially.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Hmm.

You made a fair point about catching people fleeing, I suppose (though from what I've read, all those who took part in the attacks are dead), though I'm afraid it will be used as a pretext to perpetually close the borders against refugees.

But a nationwide state of emergency? I could understand declaring one in the area of Paris, certainly. But nationwide?

Then again, I suppose France is a relatively small nation, territorially.

You probably won't see heavily armed police in smaller French towns but in all their major cities you'll see a significant increase in security and this is simply to discourage criminal activity or be prepared to deal with further attacks. While I think the attacks are over there is always the potential that there is more to come.

In my opinion all of Europe should increase their security measures for a short time.