If Colin Powell ran for president, would you vote for him?

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-03-26 08:19pm

Well? Would you?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-26 08:20pm

Nope, I don't vote for either of the major parties.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-26 08:23pm

Depends on a lot of things. That'd be something that won't get decided if and until he decides to run. The Iraqi war aftermath will be prominent among that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-26 08:25pm

No- he defended the practice of firing at people from helicopters when they ran in Vietnam- this is the administration's biggest dove.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-26 08:31pm

Vympel wrote:No- he defended the practice of firing at people from helicopters when they ran in Vietnam- this is the administration's biggest dove.

Who were they shooting at and why? Because if you're shooting enemy soldiers then that just doesn't make sense.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-26 08:36pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Vympel wrote:No- he defended the practice of firing at people from helicopters when they ran in Vietnam- this is the administration's biggest dove.
Who were they shooting at and why? Because if you're shooting enemy soldiers then that just doesn't make sense.

They shot at farmers in rice fields. For fun. Their philosophy was that if they ran, they were the enemy. If you've ever seen Stanley Kubric's Full Metal Jacket you'll know what I'm talking about.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-26 08:45pm

Queeb Salaron wrote:They shot at farmers in rice fields. For fun. Their philosophy was that if they ran, they were the enemy. If you've ever seen Stanley Kubric's Full Metal Jacket you'll know what I'm talking about.

I can't say I support that at all.

And pardon me if I don't trust a fictional movie for my historical facts.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-26 08:47pm

Queeb Salaron wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Vympel wrote:No- he defended the practice of firing at people from helicopters when they ran in Vietnam- this is the administration's biggest dove.
Who were they shooting at and why? Because if you're shooting enemy soldiers then that just doesn't make sense.
They shot at farmers in rice fields. For fun. Their philosophy was that if they ran, they were the enemy. If you've ever seen Stanley Kubric's Full Metal Jacket you'll know what I'm talking about.

I'd like to see something that says that was policy, and not some sadistic fucks behind a gun.
Using a movie as a reference source isn't an especially good idea, BTW.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-03-26 08:48pm

Who's the alternative?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-03-26 08:49pm

Yogi wrote:Who's the alternative?

John McCain!!

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-26 08:49pm

He defended the practice that you see in FMJ (yes, it did happen) in one of his books. I heard it on internet radio.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-26 08:51pm

An American Journey, his memoirs:

Colin Powell wrote:If a helo spotted a peasant in black pajamas who looked remotely suspicious, a possible MAM [military age male] the pilot would circle and fire in front of him. If he moved, his movement was judged evidence of hostile intent, and the next burst was not in front, but at him. Brutal? Maybe so.

"The My Lai massacre. On March 16, 1968, US soldiers from the Americal Division slaughtered 347 civilians--primarily old men, women, children, and babies--in the Vietnamese village of My Lai 4 (pronounced, very appropriately, as "me lie"). The grunts also engaged in torture and rape of the villagers.

Around six months later, a soldier in the 11th Light Infantry Brigade--known among the men as "the Butcher's Brigade"--wrote a letter telling of widespread killing and torturing of Vietnamese civilians by entire units of the US military (he did not specifically refer to My Lai). The letter was sent to the general in charge of 'Nam and trickled down the chain of command to Major Colin Powell, a deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal Division, who was charged with investigating the matter and formulating a response.

After a desultory check--which consisted mainly of investigating the soldier who wrote the letter, rather than his allegations--Powell reported that everything was hunkey-dory. There may be some "isolated incidents" by individual bad seeds, but there were no widespread atrocities. He wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." The matter was closed.

To this day, we might not know about the carnage at My Lai if it hadn't been for another solider who later wisely sent a letter to his Congressman.
(Twenty-five years later Powell gave an interview in which he not only failed to condemn the massacre but seemed to excuse it.)"

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-26 08:53pm

Vympel wrote:
Colin Powell wrote:If a helo spotted a peasant in black pajamas who looked remotely suspicious, a possible MAM [military age male] the pilot would circle and fire in front of him. If he moved, his movement was judged evidence of hostile intent, and the next burst was not in front, but at him. Brutal? Maybe so.

Well thats inhumanly stupid. Heaven forbid you run from a guy shooting at you.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-26 08:57pm

A little perspective:

The Geneva Convention wrote:
Article Three of the Geneva Convention of 1949 to which the United States is a signatory, states that::

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-26 09:46pm

Give me Fred Thompson in 2008

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-03-26 11:29pm

Queeb Salaron wrote: They shot at farmers in rice fields. For fun. Their philosophy was that if they ran, they were the enemy. If you've ever seen Stanley Kubric's Full Metal Jacket you'll know what I'm talking about.

"If they run, then they're VC. If they don't run, then they'll WELL trained VC."

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-27 02:26am

paladin wrote:
Queeb Salaron wrote: They shot at farmers in rice fields. For fun. Their philosophy was that if they ran, they were the enemy. If you've ever seen Stanley Kubric's Full Metal Jacket you'll know what I'm talking about.
"If they run, then they're VC. If they don't run, then they'll WELL trained VC."

no, it's well disciplined, with emphasis on disciplined

One of my favorite films you see.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-03-27 06:44am

Yogi wrote:Who's the alternative?

RU-DY! RU-DY! RU-DY! RU-DY!

President Rudolph Gulianni! that has a nice ring to it.......*sigh*....if only.....

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-27 08:17am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Yogi wrote:Who's the alternative?
RU-DY! RU-DY! RU-DY! RU-DY!

President Rudolph Gulianni! that has a nice ring to it.......*sigh*....if only.....

We forgot everybody's favorite Bostonian, Sen. John Kerry.

(BTW, Dem. Nat'l. Conv. to be held in B-town this year. I expect a mass field trips [kidding].)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-27 09:05am

Queeb Salaron wrote:We forgot everybody's favorite Bostonian, Sen. John Kerry.

Hasn't he been implicated in Veitnam War atrocities?

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-27 09:09am

Mornin Storm, yea he was, being from Boston I put up with loser.. He first denied it then had the necessary Dem break into tears when caught..

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-27 09:11am

theski wrote:Mornin Storm, yea he was, being from Boston I put up with loser.. He first denied it then had the necessary Dem break into tears when caught..

Ah lovely. Why is he still in office? And this are the same people that harp on Colin Powell simply making apolgies for those people? Ah, smell the hypocrisy.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-27 09:12am

DEM=hypocrisy

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-27 09:14am

theski wrote:DEM=hypocrisy

All the politcal parties have engaged in a certain amouunt of hypocristcal behaviour. But you are right that the Democrats seem to be engaging more and more in blatant hypocrisy.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-03-27 09:15am

Ah lovely. Why is he still in office? And this are the same people that harp on Colin Powell simply making apolgies for those people? Ah, smell the hypocrisy

This is the same state that keeps electing 'chap aquitted' Edward Kennedy year after year.

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If Colin Powell ran for president, would you vote for him?

Would you vote for Collin Powell?

If Colin Powell ran for president, would you vote for him?