Greetings from the Two Tier Justice System

[Metahive]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

Texas boy avoids jail in deaths of four after psychologist testifies wealth spoiled him
A Texas boy, 16, has received probation after pleading guilty to killing four people in a drunk-driving collision earlier this year. A psychologist who testified in the boy’s defense said he had been spoiled by his parents’ wealth and that he suffered from what he called “affluenza.”

[snip]

Rich white boy kills four people in a drunken stupor, gets slap on the wrist because he's a sociopath due to wealth. What was the Golden Rule again?

Right, he who has the gold...



...makes the rules.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAH!

[mr friendly guy]

Ah yes. Their excuse is he suffers from Affluenza, a made up psychobabble term to say that he never learnt the consequences of his actions and so he was spoilt. So what better way to treat him than by letting him escape the consequences of his actions.

Now Affluenza supposedly is a mental illness which impairs judgement, so its not his fault. But hang on a minute. Texas is the state which executes mentally ill people right? Or is it only if they are poor or black where mental illness doesn't count as a mitigating circumstance.

[Metahive]

You know what's funny? There's a "Punisher in the Future" comic that changes the Punisher's backstory from "family killed by the mob" to "family killed by bored rich white guy". The rich white guy gets off scott-free for it because he's diagnosed as "insane". When I first read that comic I considered this badly written, over-the-top caricature...

[K. A. Pital]

This thread adequately explains in just a few sentences why I hold the convictions I hold, and I've held them for years.

[Grumman]

Not to mention that the reason he was drunk is because he stole the beer, and the reason he was driving was because he was going to steal some more.

He is, in short, an irredeemable little shit.

[Mr. Coffee]

In an older, better time we'd take that young man out behind the wood pile and beat him with a length of rubber hose until he either learns the error of his ways or he stops breathing. I'm pretty comfortable with either outcome.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

The judge says that the little shit was put on probation because the juvenile system wouldn't treat his issues.

Hey, you know who else doesn't get treated by jail? All these black people.

[Spekio]

The judge says that the little shit was put on probation because the juvenile system wouldn't treat his issues.

Hey, you know who else doesn't get treated by jail? All these black people.

Now you are being silly. Blacks aren't people.[/sarcasm]


But on a more serious tone, what does probation entail in this case, aside from therapy?

[Alyrium Denryle]

The judge says that the little shit was put on probation because the juvenile system wouldn't treat his issues.

Hey, you know who else doesn't get treated by jail? All these black people.

Now you are being silly. Blacks aren't people.[/sarcasm]


But on a more serious tone, what does probation entail in this case, aside from therapy?

Restricted movement, mandatory counseling, and he must stay squeaky clean or he goes to prison for the remainder of the term.

Rich white boy kills four people in a drunken stupor, gets slap on the wrist because he's a sociopath due to wealth. What was the Golden Rule again?

No. He is not a sociopath due to wealth, he is just a sociopath. Nothing can be done for him. The good news is, he will reoffend and get sent to prison for a long time anyway.

[Enigma]

[snip]

No. He is not a sociopath due to wealth, he is just a sociopath. Nothing can be done for him. The good news is, he will reoffend and get sent to prison for a long time anyway.

Unfortunately, it isn't going to be good news to his next victim.

[PKRudeBoy]

How is that even remotely good news? I can understand wanting the little shit to get his comeuppance, but him re-offending could mean he destroys even more lives. And I find it rather disturbing how quick people are to label a 16 year old with an unhealthy family life a sociopath.

[Metahive]

That's not us, that's what the defense decided to run with. He's a spoiled little shit who doesn't care about other people and therefore can't be held responsible for his actions, their argument, not ours.

[TheHammer]

What a bunch of horseshit. This is some sort of Bizzaro world version of the story where a poor kid who grew up in a neglectful home wasn't responsible for his actions either. Such an argument has long been rejected by the society at large. But I suppose citing this case, perhaps an enterprising defense attorney will invent a new term called Poveritis. If ever there was an argument for mandatory minimum sentences it was this.

I'd almost hope that there was some way for the prosecution to appeal. Unfortunately, while I think they could have appealed a "not guilty" verdict, I believe it is much more difficult to appeal an actual sentence...

[PKRudeBoy]

That's not us, that's what the defense decided to run with. He's a spoiled little shit who doesn't care about other people and therefore can't be held responsible for his actions, their argument, not ours.

No, what the defense decided to run with is shitty parenting produces shitty people. When parents make no effort to instill responsibility in their children and enable them to avoid the consequences of their actions, it shouldn't be a surprise when they do reckless shit. This kid is probably the product of their environment just as much as most other criminals. Just because someone comes from a wealthy background doesn't mean that they had a childhood that will lead them to be a responsible person, and in a situation like this with obviously horrible parents, I would be amazed if the kid turned out much differently. You are the one who claimed that the kid is a sociopath, which is ridiculous, especially since ASPD is an adult diagnosis. Not to mention the idea that someone is a sociopath because they drive drunk is absolutely absurd. 13% of American drivers have driven drunk in the past year.

Furthermore, if I remember correctly both you and Alyrium have have had rather critical things to say about the US penal system, so I really don't see why attempting a rehabilitatve strategy is such a problem. Is the fact that he got that chance because of his family wealth while other people without similar advantages get screwed a problem, absolutely, but we should be trying to get more sentences like this for everyone, not drag it down when it does happen.

[Simon_Jester]

The problem with that approach, though, is that if we accept as a mitigating defense that a child or young adult was raised by horrible parents... that should apply consistently to all children born to horrible parents. Unfortunately, most such children don't have the resources to run up six-figure rehab bills whenever they commit a crime, and the state doesn't have the resources to do that either.

Unsympathetically sending people to jail for killing people regardless of whether they had horrible parents may not be optimal, but at least we can implement it fairly across the population in theory. It's not a case of having a private legal code for the rich that nobody else gets to benefit from.

[PKRudeBoy]

Which is why I think that for minors and first offenders at the very least, we should focus on rehabilitation. Not some half million dollar rehab resort, but something more along the Scandinavian lines.

[Crown]

As I posted in another thread, love Cenk's reaction to this, and more importantly Anna's;



Cenk's fury at how this would NEVER happen to a poor kid is understandable, but so is Anna's restraint in pointing out that we should want attempts at rehabilitation rather than incarceration.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You are the one who claimed that the kid is a sociopath, which is ridiculous, especially since ASPD is an adult diagnosis. Not to mention the idea that someone is a sociopath because they drive drunk is absolutely absurd. 13% of American drivers have driven drunk in the past year.

The problem is not the drunk driving. The problem is that in an earlier incident brought up in court, he was caught by the police in the back of his car with an unconscious naked young woman (read: attempted rape) for which he was ticketed (why was this not prosecuted, I wonder?). No remorse for the 4 deaths he caused either. Pretty good indication that there is no empathy there. Take everything into consideration, and while ASPD is an adult diagnosis, it still exists in younger people (it is just difficult to distinguish from other disorders prior to adulthood), and he fits the bill.

A sociopath is a sociopath. It does not matter how they are raised. Normal theories of criminal justice like a preference for rehabilitation over punishment do not apply, because sociopaths are neurologically broken. Nothing can reform them. The only difference that can be made is to raise them in such a way that they are violent serial killer types if raised "poorly", or investment banker types if raised "well".

This one has been raised poorly, and he is too old now for that to be readily reversed. Now, I could be wrong on the Sociopath thing. We will find out when and if he starts torturing animals (not like in a dog fight, we are talking about flaying mice and shit). That one is a dead giveaway.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Which is why I think that for minors and first offenders at the very least, we should focus on rehabilitation. Not some half million dollar rehab resort, but something more along the Scandinavian lines.

You have a point, and I don't think people would disagree with you in another thread. The problem is this case, because quite simply everything in it is fucked up. Rehabilitation over punishment is a good idea, and it's theoretically good that implementation has started; but in practice, implementing it on that particular person was such a poor choice that people feel it is legitimately suspect.

[Scrib]

What a bunch of horseshit. This is some sort of Bizzaro world version of the story where a poor kid who grew up in a neglectful home wasn't responsible for his actions either. Such an argument has long been rejected by the society at large. But I suppose citing this case, perhaps an enterprising defense attorney will invent a new term called Poveritis. If ever there was an argument for mandatory minimum sentences it was this.

I'd almost hope that there was some way for the prosecution to appeal. Unfortunately, while I think they could have appealed a "not guilty" verdict, I believe it is much more difficult to appeal an actual sentence...

Basically my problem with it. I have no problem with the idea that someone's parents sheltered them so much that it made them narcissistic assholes (though you should still go to jail for various reasons, tough shit I know) but no one buys this case when it goes the other way. Then it's all personal responsibility and the like. So fuck it, be consistent.

[Metahive]

Which is why I think that for minors and first offenders at the very least, we should focus on rehabilitation. Not some half million dollar rehab resort, but something more along the Scandinavian lines.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but that inevitably requires the defendant to acknowledge he did something wrong first which isn't that case here and I think spending his time in a $500000/year luxury resort won't be helping. I'm also all for justice and that requires rich people to not get special, wealth-based considerations over poor people, like the little drunk snotmonger here got. If a poor person had argued that his miserable poverty had induced misanthropy in him and pledged for mercy he'd have gotten either the poison injection or four life sentences and this is friggin' Texas, where mental illnesses don't protect people from harsh sentences (well, not little people anyway).

Do you know why american prisons are hellholes? Because the wealthy elite are close to never in danger of having to experience them. As long as only little people need to hold firmly onto their soap bars, the elite will push and maintain that "tough on crime" bullshit that keeps it going.

[mr friendly guy]

Anderson Cooper points out that the same judge sentenced a poor black kid to 10 years jail for killing a man. That kid was 14 years old. Contrast to this 16 year old kid who killed four people. But he has affluenza. I eagerly await when some smartarse lawyer will start using Povertyitis as an excuse. In Australia we already use that, but we at least have the good sense not to give it a pseudomedical sounding term.

[the atom]

As I posted in another thread, love Cenk's reaction to this, and more importantly Anna's;

Cenk's fury at how this would NEVER happen to a poor kid is understandable, but so is Anna's restraint in pointing out that we should want attempts at rehabilitation rather than incarceration.

I find it sort of amusing how people who would ordinarily advocate this approach are now out in force screaming 'Hang him! Hang him by his entrails!' . Not that they're wrong to be pissed off of course, given the flagrant hypocrisy of the verdict and all.

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen when some lawyer inevitably uses the inverse of 'affluenza' to try and get a poorer client off of similar charges (assuming it hasn't happened already).

[Rogue 9]

As I posted in another thread, love Cenk's reaction to this, and more importantly Anna's;

Cenk's fury at how this would NEVER happen to a poor kid is understandable, but so is Anna's restraint in pointing out that we should want attempts at rehabilitation rather than incarceration.

I find it sort of amusing how people who would ordinarily advocate this approach are now out in force screaming 'Hang him! Hang him by his entrails!' . Not that they're wrong to be pissed off of course, given the flagrant hypocrisy of the verdict and all.

Considering he's getting away with four counts of Murder 1, I don't see the problem with being mad about it.

[Metahive]

I find it sort of amusing how people who would ordinarily advocate this approach are now out in force screaming 'Hang him! Hang him by his entrails!'

Like whom? The only person on this board that ever called for "no punishment ever, only rehabilitation" is not participating in this thread and the main issue here isn't even the punishment itself but the uneven application of justice as you yourself acknowledge with the next sentence!. So please stop with the smarmy trolling.