Zimbabwe Police Thugs Burning Property of Urban Poor

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

More Shit Please!

Police continued demolishing thousands of shacks and vendors' kiosks in opposition strongholds Monday, burning a 10-kilometre-long line of curio stalls along the road near Victoria Falls.

A spokesman for the main opposition Movement for Democratic Change party called the crackdown tyranny and urged the people to resist. Lawyers for the party sought a court order Monday that banned police from demolishing shacks and kiosks and demanding compensation for the owners of buildings already destroyed in what the government calls a campaign to clean up the cities.

Thousands of street traders have been arrested and their wares seized or destroyed since the May 19 start of the crackdown, which the government has described as an urban renewal campaign. Police using torches, sledgehammers and bulldozers have also burned and demolished the homes of the urban poor in informal settlements around the country.

Can we do something about this three-year-old trapped in a 40-something body currently running that travesty?

[Mr. B]

We could do something about Mugabe, but Zimbabwe doesnt have any Al-Qaida and certaintly doesnt have any oil.

[Ma Deuce]

Can we do something about this three-year-old trapped in a 40-something body currently running that travesty?

Maybe a brain hemmorage would do the trick: a 9mm brain hemmorage that is. Seriously, I don't see how the country would be worse off under any conceivable sucessor.

BTW, Mugabe is 81 this year, not "40-something", though I agree he does act alot like a toddler .

[Master of Ossus]

We could do something about Mugabe, but Zimbabwe doesnt have any Al-Qaida and certaintly doesnt have any oil.

Any kind of intervention in Africa is a tricky political move at best. Realistically, these poor people are on their own. You wonder what he has to do to spawn a popular movement against him, though.

On a personal note, one of my friends lived in Zimbabwe, and I think he's over there, now (he's on vacation, and IIRC that's where he was going). Come back safe, Joe.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Can we do something about this three-year-old trapped in a 40-something body currently running that travesty?

Maybe a brain hemmorage would do the trick: a 9mm brain hemmorage that is. Seriously, I don't see how the country would be worse off under any conceivable sucessor.

BTW, Mugabe is 81 this year, not "40-something", though I agree he does act alot like a toddler .

Nah, .22 rounds... assassin's weapon of choice

[Mr. B]

Any kind of intervention in Africa is a tricky political move at best. Realistically, these poor people are on their own. You wonder what he has to do to spawn a popular movement against him, though.

On a personal note, one of my friends lived in Zimbabwe, and I think he's over there, now (he's on vacation, and IIRC that's where he was going). Come back safe, Joe.

Indeed, Zimbabwe has been a civil war in the making for years now. And if theres one place in the world that needs another devastating civil war its africa. Hopefully common sense will prevail and hang mugabe from the tallest tree.

[General Brock]

Who's bankrolling this Mugabe character? Someone must be profiting from his antics, and he dosen't seem bright enough to be his own warlord.

[Lord Zentei]

Who's bankrolling this Mugabe character? Someone must be profiting from his antics, and he dosen't seem bright enough to be his own warlord.

Why must that be the case?

[Aaron]

Who's bankrolling this Mugabe character? Someone must be profiting from his antics, and he dosen't seem bright enough to be his own warlord.

What does Zimbabwe have that would turn a profit from this shit?

[Master of Ossus]

Who's bankrolling this Mugabe character? Someone must be profiting from his antics, and he dosen't seem bright enough to be his own warlord.

What does Zimbabwe have that would turn a profit from this shit?

Zimbabwe has historically been a big agricultural player, growing various kinds of crops (including sugar and tobacco). I understand the Mugabe's kind of plowed (pun intended) the agricultural sector into the ground, though, so I'm not sure where he's getting funds from.

[Glocksman]

Mines, probably.
IIRC, it has diamond and gold mines.

BTW, for those old enough to remember it I bet Ian Smith's government is looking mighty good right now.

[Axis Kast]

Libya was bankrolling him for a good long while. Zimbabwe, however, defaulted on payments, and Mugabe had to fork over a hefty chunk of real estate to Qadhaffi's people in return.

As I've repeated again and again every time these threads come up, the real problem seems to be that Zimbabwe's Army is still rolling so high on the pile of blood diamonds they brought back from the Congo that they've yet to realize just how shitty life back home really is. (Of course, given that they've been back for years now, this is less and less a valid theory with each passing day.)

[Lord Zentei]

Libya was bankrolling him for a good long while. Zimbabwe, however, defaulted on payments, and Mugabe had to fork over a hefty chunk of real estate to Qadhaffi's people in return.

As I've repeated again and again every time these threads come up, the real problem seems to be that Zimbabwe's Army is still rolling so high on the pile of blood diamonds they brought back from the Congo that they've yet to realize just how shitty life back home really is. (Of course, given that they've been back for years now, this is less and less a valid theory with each passing day.)

Presently the order of the day seems to be looting the citizens of Zimbabwe. First it was the white farmers, now that they have nothing left it is the urban poor who are the targets. As long as the troops can live off the land (and political enemies), Mugabe has a chance. That won't last.

[Axis Kast]

The Zimbabwe National Army wasn't around when Mugabe really let the remaining whites have it.

I also doubt even they'd have the stomach to slash and burn their own people.

[General Brock]

Lord Zentai Wrote:

Why must that be the case?

Friend of mine told me to follow the money in such situations; its pretty reliable, since even if a guy like Mugabe was a genius purely idiotlogically or ego driven, he would still have to pay for guns and soldiers and fence the stolen resources.

At the very least, I would expect a few very large Zimbabwean landowners, growing larger, among Mugabe's closest supporters. Axis Kast and Glocksman mentioned diamond loot and mines, so I suppose ownership of these resources is being crudely redistributed and consolidated into fewer hands. From what I've read on Mugabe in the news, he's got a big mouth, but dosen't seem bright enough to accomplish all that havoc on his own brainpower. His chief thugs can't have the competence, or at least one or two would have at least tried for the top job, or be more visible sharing the limelight. Nor is he receiving a whole lot of international flak given the scale of his blatant racism and general incompetance.

Givin the stability at the top of his regime, despite the chaos below, Mugabe either holds a magical ring of power, or is the dud-man for more intelligent and well-connected players, who are not making the news.

[Lord Zentei]

Friend of mine told me to follow the money in such situations; its pretty reliable, since even if a guy like Mugabe was a genius purely idiotlogically or ego driven, he would still have to pay for guns and soldiers and fence the stolen resources.

I doubt that anyone regards Mugabe as a genius. Whoever is fencing his stolen loot and selling him guns needen't be pulling his strings.

At the very least, I would expect a few very large Zimbabwean landowners, growing larger, among Mugabe's closest supporters.

Not the landowners. They were disenfranchized.

Axis Kast and Glocksman mentioned diamond loot and mines, so I suppose ownership of these resources is being crudely redistributed and consolidated into fewer hands.

Namely Mugabe and his cronies.

From what I've read on Mugabe in the news, he's got a big mouth, but dosen't seem bright enough to accomplish all that havoc on his own brainpower. His chief thugs can't have the competence, or at least one or two would have at least tried for the top job, or be more visible sharing the limelight. Nor is he receiving a whole lot of international flak given the scale of his blatant racism and general incompetance.

Oh, he's receiving flak all right. Just not enough. As for his not being competent enough, well, that's not neccesarily the case. The problem is that Zimbabwe simply isn't valuable enough for outsiders to challenge him on it. Apathy and disinterest in the world at large are the problems. Mugabe himself is nothing more than a glorified bandit lord and Zimbabwe has become a no-man's land.

Givin the stability at the top of his regime, despite the chaos below, Mugabe either holds a magical ring of power, or is the dud-man for more intelligent and well-connected players, who are not making the news.

We don't know how stable the top is over there. Anyway, Mugabe can well be competent in keeping the grunts in line as long as there is someone left to loot, while being an amoral and incompetent ruler.

[CJvR]

Who would want to intervene and be denounced as an Imperialist racist pig-dog in the UN & world media?

[Lord Zentei]

Who would want to intervene and be denounced as an Imperialist racist pig-dog in the UN & world media?

And there is that, on top of everything else. Hell, the "electoral inspection teams" from neighbouring African countries came out in favour of Mugabe's election, in contrast to the Western ones.

[Axis Kast]

Not the landowners. They were disenfranchized.

I think he meant the new landholders who Mugabe "awarded" the majority of the tracts seized from whites.

[General Brock]

I doubt that anyone regards Mugabe as a genius. Whoever is fencing his stolen loot and selling him guns needen't be pulling his strings.

So the systematic looting and destruction of Zimbabwe's private and state infrastructure, with no violent organized resistance by the newly disenfranchaised, is all just a coincidence? The white famers, at least, should have been able to organize something; its not like Mugabe has the support of all the black population. The farm workers of the white farmers, predominantly black, fared about as well as their former employers in most cases. There is something more here than meets the eye.

Not the landowners. They were disenfranchized.

Axis clarified the point I failed to make clear. The government still functions well internationally, at least; people with education and experience are still in place. Perhaps not all the whites were disenfranchaised, and are making a killing off their former neighbors. The land that wasn't given over to his cronies was given to landless black, who might know little about farming, and eventually have to sell out. It really would be interesting to audit who owns what on paper.

Oh, he's receiving flak all right. Just not enough. As for his not being competent enough, well, that's not neccesarily the case. The problem is that Zimbabwe simply isn't valuable enough for outsiders to challenge him on it. Apathy and disinterest in the world at large are the problems. Mugabe himself is nothing more than a glorified bandit lord and Zimbabwe has become a no-man's land.

Master of Ossus has a friend who seems to think the country is safe enough to visit, so there must be enough law and order for people to live with some sense of normalicy and security. As long as they aren't a propertied, poorly connected white, or any member of the political opposition.

This should have been a banner headline for a slow news day; carnage, corruption, scandal, all newsy stuff no matter what the country.

We don't know how stable the top is over there. Anyway, Mugabe can well be competent in keeping the grunts in line as long as there is someone left to loot, while being an amoral and incompetent ruler.

Stable enough to run peaceful elections to get Mugabe re-elected with 46 seats, and give the opposition just enough hope for reform without resorting to violence. Mugabe can to appoint 30 of 120 seats in parliament, so the opposition legitmately had 44 seats, despite irregularities that would favour the government. In most other countries with an elected leader, there are usually cronies; powerbrokers and dealmakers, in the background who provide the real leadership and set the stage for politicians to dance upon, except they are usually split into rivalrous factions supporting different political parties.

In the case of Zimbabwe, something seems very contrived and off. Too much method to the madness, sophistication to the thuggery.

[Master of Ossus]

Master of Ossus has a friend who seems to think the country is safe enough to visit, so there must be enough law and order for people to live with some sense of normalicy and security. As long as they aren't a propertied, poorly connected white, or any member of the political opposition.

Well, I don't know if he thinks it's exactly safe to visit--he has family there and is visiting them on vacation. I do think that he understood the risks, but I still worry about his safety. He should be back in the office sometime next week, so I've got my fingers crossed.

[General Brock]

Well, I don't know if he thinks it's exactly safe to visit--he has family there and is visiting them on vacation. I do think that he understood the risks, but I still worry about his safety. He should be back in the office sometime next week, so I've got my fingers crossed.

Family? I thought he was just visiting friends from the info given in your post. l hope he makes it back too, and that they stay safe. The violence is well short of total war and civil anarchy, politically controlled, from what I can tell, so he should be fine.

[Axis Kast]

So the systematic looting and destruction of Zimbabwe's private and state infrastructure, with no violent organized resistance by the newly disenfranchaised, is all just a coincidence? The white famers, at least, should have been able to organize something; its not like Mugabe has the support of all the black population.

I think people overestimate the capabilities of white minorities for resistance. I’ve heard similar statements about whites in South Africa from people still convinced they retain sufficient power to create armed redoubts.

Zimbabwe’s whites commanded a significant place in the region’s agricultural hierarchy, and certainly played a valuable role in their country’s economy. On the other hand, they faced not insignificant social hostilities, were always at the collective mercy of popular legal action to redress historical inequalities, and tended to be subject to financial hardship since the collapse of the UDI government. Many were seeking some means to diversify or liquidate their holdings and exit the country, and none were in a position to literally “circle the wagons” against the transgressions of Zimbabwe’s security forces (often assisted by dozens of armed thugs willing to hack first and ask questions later, with the certainty that they could escape justice).

The farm workers of the white farmers, predominantly black, fared about as well as their former employers in most cases. There is something more here than meets the eye.

Yes and no. Mugabe played an excellent game of divide and conquer. Black farm hands were originally slated to be given the deeds to the farms on which they worked, once whites left. They were also given seed, some agricultural implements, and low-interest loans in a system not terribly dissimilar to that used to reimburse indentured servants and mustered-out soldiers on the American frontier. But Mugabe’s economic policies made the loans worthless, and the farm hands’ own lack of knowledge on large-scale agriculture (i.e. selling routines, for example, which is not something even an experienced field hand or mechanic might know off hand) did them in. Especially as dozens of former farm hands disputed who owned what, and how to divvy up water rights.

Axis clarified the point I failed to make clear. The government still functions well internationally, at least; people with education and experience are still in place. Perhaps not all the whites were disenfranchaised, and are making a killing off their former neighbors. The land that wasn't given over to his cronies was given to landless black, who might know little about farming, and eventually have to sell out. It really would be interesting to audit who owns what on paper.

Mugabe’s government is only in place because he regularly hands out food to bands of marauders who pillage the country, safe from retribution because they fly his banner.

Master of Ossus has a friend who seems to think the country is safe enough to visit, so there must be enough law and order for people to live with some sense of normalicy and security. As long as they aren't a propertied, poorly connected white, or any member of the political opposition.

His friend is an American. If he dies, Mugabe has a shit storm on his hands. To be truthful, he would probably escape very bad retribution because Zimbabwe is so unimportant. On the other hand, it’s something he’d try to avoid, if at all possible. Certainly, an American passport – and American dollars – will be a deterrent to most would-be murderers or abusers, even if they steal or harass.

Stable enough to run peaceful elections to get Mugabe re-elected with 46 seats, and give the opposition just enough hope for reform without resorting to violence. Mugabe can to appoint 30 of 120 seats in parliament, so the opposition legitmately had 44 seats, despite irregularities that would favour the government. In most other countries with an elected leader, there are usually cronies; powerbrokers and dealmakers, in the background who provide the real leadership and set the stage for politicians to dance upon, except they are usually split into rivalrous factions supporting different political parties.

The opposition was probably restrained from voting. In many African countries, to vote is to expose oneself to intimidation and later violence.

[weemadando]

For once I have to agree with Axis - any reference to Zimbabwe and democracy should be have a negative quantifier associated with it.

Mugabe is just another sad, pathetic man who has made it to power and is just in it for themselves in a country with no checks and balances and no hope of removing him.

[General Brock]

Axis Kast Wrote: [snip]

OK, then. There must be more tribal unity in Zimbabwe than in other African countries. Usually a situation like this would spiral into outright civil war, and I thought it odd that it hadn't. I suppose it still might, if Mugabe were to be assasinated or lose hs grip on power, but I doubt it. The country is just strange, operating with a veneeer of anarchy and an organized, authoritarian core.