ISIS destroys Mar Elian

[Purple]

This I would agree with more if Muslim immigrants were fighting in appreciable numbers in western armies AGAINST ISIS

Just because they ain't on the field does not mean they ain't fighting. Every time you pay taxes to your country as opposed to performing terror bombings against it you contribute.

[cmdrjones]

This I would agree with more if Muslim immigrants were fighting in appreciable numbers in western armies AGAINST ISIS

Just because they ain't on the field does not mean they ain't fighting. Every time you pay taxes to your country as opposed to performing terror bombings against it you contribute.

I agree that taxes to a state fighting ISIS is contributing to the fight in an tangential way, but writing a check is definitely NOT fighting. In comparison.... don't you think that's just a tad feeble in comparison to what the Islamic State is doing in the name of Islam?

Most Christians don't take their religion very seriously either, but sheesh!!

OTOH, if you could show evidence that all the stories of western Muslims flocking to fight FOR ISIS are overblown then, maybe.

I do also note that SOME Sunni Kurds have returned home to fight against ISIS, but the vast majority of western Muslims? Crickets.....

[Purple]

I agree that taxes to a state fighting ISIS is contributing to the fight in an tangential way, but writing a check is definitely NOT fighting. In comparison.... don't you think that's just a tad feeble in comparison to what the Islamic State is doing in the name of Islam?

Paying your taxes AND NOT BECOMING A RADICAL TERRORIST. Don't forget that part.

OTOH, if you could show evidence that all the stories of western Muslims flocking to fight FOR ISIS are overblown then, maybe.

It took what, 9 or so? guys to orchestrate the deadliest foreign instigated terror attack in american history. America alone has something like 30 million Muslims. Say 1% of those turned radical. Just 1%.

[Iroscato]

Purple is making sense and I am agreeing with him. Soon, The Four Horsemen shall ride...

[Broomstick]

I am not feigning ignorance, but thanks for asking, I'm TRYING a simplified form of a Socratic question and answer thing. I think enough of us are AWARE that there is SOME difference between Muslims and Buddhists... it is as if many can't quite put their fingers on it.... huh, wierd.

Look into the history of Tibet. Buddhists are just as capable of being bloodthirsty and religious killers as anyone else.

When Americans (to be fair about 70% of them) flip out and go on wars of revenge we are failures as Christians. When Muslims do the same they are succeeding as Muslims.

>cough< Not all Americans are Christians. Thanks for forgetting about the rest of us.

It took what, 9 or so? guys to orchestrate the deadliest foreign instigated terror attack in american history. America alone has something like 30 million Muslims. Say 1% of those turned radical. Just 1%.

More like 16 or 17, most of whom were Saudi, all of whom had come to the US from abroad on student visas. So far as I know, no American Muslims were involved in 9/11. In fact, they were pretty pissed off about it, too.

Consider that the folks who move out of the Middle East to other places and live there permanently are generally the ones who are NOT interested in continuing the endless wars over patches of dessert and the occasional oasis. I've met a lot of immigrants from the Middle East who were relieved/happy to be away from all the fighting.

[Raw Shark]

It took what, 9 or so? guys to orchestrate the deadliest foreign instigated terror attack in american history. America alone has something like 30 million Muslims. Say 1% of those turned radical. Just 1%.

You're overestimating numbers by an order of magnitude, but 1% of 3 million would still be pretty bad.

~~~~~

@Broomstick: I think Jonesey was making a clumsy reference to the fact that roughly 70% of the people in the USA identify as Christian, not trying to deny the existence of the rest of us.

[Purple]

In regard to the number yea, I made a miscalculation. It's just a back of the envelope style calculation based of Wikipedia.
According to this page america has 321605012 people. I rounded that to 322000000. According to the same page Muslims make up 0.9% of the population. I went 322000000 / 100 * 9 instead of 0.9. Completely my bad.

[madd0ct0r]

This I would agree with more if Muslim immigrants were fighting in appreciable numbers in western armies AGAINST ISIS

Just because they ain't on the field does not mean they ain't fighting. Every time you pay taxes to your country as opposed to performing terror bombings against it you contribute.

I agree that taxes to a state fighting ISIS is contributing to the fight in an tangential way, but writing a check is definitely NOT fighting. In comparison.... don't you think that's just a tad feeble in comparison to what the Islamic State is doing in the name of Islam?

Most Christians don't take their religion very seriously either, but sheesh!!

OTOH, if you could show evidence that all the stories of western Muslims flocking to fight FOR ISIS are overblown then, maybe.

I do also note that SOME Sunni Kurds have returned home to fight against ISIS, but the vast majority of western Muslims? Crickets.....

I'm an enviromentalist. If a person in Australia claiming the term enviromentalist blockaded a uranium mine, would I be obligated to go over there to oppose the blockade? NOPE, becuase it is literally nothing to do with me. A Daesh fighter being pricks in the levent does not impose any duties on a middle aged engineering professor in Edinburgh just because they both use the word Islam.

There may be other routes to obligation, but that one is too tenuous.

[cmdrjones]

I am not feigning ignorance, but thanks for asking, I'm TRYING a simplified form of a Socratic question and answer thing. I think enough of us are AWARE that there is SOME difference between Muslims and Buddhists... it is as if many can't quite put their fingers on it.... huh, wierd.

Look into the history of Tibet. Buddhists are just as capable of being bloodthirsty and religious killers as anyone else.

back then, yes, but now? not so much, what kind of leap did they make that Muslims (some of them, reference the Book Heretic by ms Ali) have yet to complete?

It took what, 9 or so? guys to orchestrate the deadliest foreign instigated terror attack in american history. America alone has something like 30 million Muslims. Say 1% of those turned radical. Just 1%.

More like 16 or 17, most of whom were Saudi, all of whom had come to the US from abroad on student visas. So far as I know, no American Muslims were involved in 9/11. In fact, they were pretty pissed off about it, too.

Consider that the folks who move out of the Middle East to other places and live there permanently are generally the ones who are NOT interested in continuing the endless wars over patches of dessert and the occasional oasis. I've met a lot of immigrants from the Middle East who were relieved/happy to be away from all the fighting.

I've met two African Muslims and Two middle eastern Muslims in US forces (plus a couple of Western converts) and ttey run the gamut in quality like everyone else (excluding O9L's, or the Afghans I mentioned in another thread) They do fantastic work, but considering the scale of what's going on, to me, at this point, they constitute the exceptions that prove the rule.... Unless things turn around dramatically that is.

I propose a test: If the European powers, who are genrally much more welcoming and sensitive to Islamic culture than the US, are able to field significant numbers of Islamic troops vs people LIKE ISIS, then i'll happily concede.

I'm an enviromentalist. If a person in Australia claiming the term enviromentalist blockaded a uranium mine, would I be obligated to go over there to oppose the blockade? NOPE, becuase it is literally nothing to do with me. A Daesh fighter being pricks in the levent does not impose any duties on a middle aged engineering professor in Edinburgh just because they both use the word Islam.

There may be other routes to obligation, but that one is too tenuous.

Well, environmentalism isn't, even in theory, enforced or inspired by a supreme being

[madd0ct0r]

Gaia is displeased with jones.

[cmdrjones]

Gaia is displeased with jones.

Now now, Gaia worship =/= environmentalism... do you need a venn diagram?

[madd0ct0r]

Who said anything about worship? You just requested a system that is enforced by a supreme being.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

[Thanas]

Gaia is displeased with jones.

May he soon enjoy the traditional greek punishment for those who dishonour the great mother.

[Broomstick]

I am not feigning ignorance, but thanks for asking, I'm TRYING a simplified form of a Socratic question and answer thing. I think enough of us are AWARE that there is SOME difference between Muslims and Buddhists... it is as if many can't quite put their fingers on it.... huh, wierd.

Look into the history of Tibet. Buddhists are just as capable of being bloodthirsty and religious killers as anyone else.

back then, yes, but now? not so much, what kind of leap did they make that Muslims (some of them, reference the Book Heretic by ms Ali) have yet to complete?

They were taken over by China.

I propose a test: If the European powers, who are genrally much more welcoming and sensitive to Islamic culture than the US, are able to field significant numbers of Islamic troops vs people LIKE ISIS, then i'll happily concede.

I question your premise that Europe is "generally much more welcoming and sensitive to Islamic culture than the US". Please support that premise.

[cmdrjones]

Who said anything about worship? You just requested a system that is enforced by a supreme being.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

the earth's ecology is a supreme being?


Broomstick: Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_ ... ted_States

.9% of 300 million is less than 3 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

19 million in the EU.... out of what 400 million people?

How much anti-islam hysteria do you find in the US vs Europe?
I find it to be pretty prevalent here, despite having a much lower absolute and % of muslims here.


Thanas: If I am even half right, Tartarus might be an improvement in a generation or two

[madd0ct0r]

Who said anything about worship? You just requested a system that is enforced by a supreme being.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

the earth's ecology is a supreme being?

Meh, that's the subject for another thread. but yes.

[Broomstick]

Broomstick: Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_ ... ted_States

.9% of 300 million is less than 3 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

19 million in the EU.... out of what 400 million people?

You're basing how welcoming the US is vs. Europe based solely on numbers/population percentage? My goodness, geographical proximity to the Muslim heartland couldn't possibly be a factor!

How much anti-islam hysteria do you find in the US vs Europe?
I find it to be pretty prevalent here, despite having a much lower absolute and % of muslims here.

Maybe we live in different parts of the US, I find more anti-black bias than anti-Muslim in my area.

Which is just dueling opinions. How about you provide some actual stats?

[cmdrjones]

Broomstick: Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_ ... ted_States

.9% of 300 million is less than 3 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

19 million in the EU.... out of what 400 million people?

You're basing how welcoming the US is vs. Europe based solely on numbers/population percentage? My goodness, geographical proximity to the Muslim heartland couldn't possibly be a factor!

How much anti-islam hysteria do you find in the US vs Europe?
I find it to be pretty prevalent here, despite having a much lower absolute and % of muslims here.

Maybe we live in different parts of the US, I find more anti-black bias than anti-Muslim in my area.

Which is just dueling opinions. How about you provide some actual stats?

then through observation and logic we can conclude that Europe should show MORE hostility to ISlam considering their proximity and shared history, yes?

[Broomstick]

No, asshat, it doesn't work that way. People and societies are not equations. It's not just about proximity.

[madd0ct0r]

Broomstick: Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_ ... ted_States

.9% of 300 million is less than 3 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

19 million in the EU.... out of what 400 million people?

You're basing how welcoming the US is vs. Europe based solely on numbers/population percentage? My goodness, geographical proximity to the Muslim heartland couldn't possibly be a factor!

How much anti-islam hysteria do you find in the US vs Europe?
I find it to be pretty prevalent here, despite having a much lower absolute and % of muslims here.

Maybe we live in different parts of the US, I find more anti-black bias than anti-Muslim in my area.

Which is just dueling opinions. How about you provide some actual stats?

then through observation and logic we can conclude that Europe should show MORE hostility to ISlam considering their proximity and shared history, yes?

and by that logic the Brits and Germans must truly truly hate each other...

[cmdrjones]

and by that logic the Brits and Germans must truly truly hate each other...

have you not SEEN Blackadder?

[Esquire]

... The comedy show set a century ago? Yes, clearly this is an accurate portrayal of modern international relationships.