Frat boy Navy captain gets relieved

[Mr. Coffee]

Because someone got butthurt. Now they are covering their asses.

Fixed to reflect reality.

And? So they are covering their asses, how does that change the metrics of the situation?

Because ruining the career of what by all accounts is an effective officer over something as lame as this is bullshit, Flagg. Seriously, that's around twenty years of his life, and hundreds of thousands or even millions of of tax dollars worth of training going out the window because a handful of people got their ass chapped over a low-budget Navy themed SNL skit.

Now riddle me this, does him saying "fag" in a skit that was obviously meant to be humorous and non-discriminatory justify the damage done to him?

[Aaron]

The other article linked by Zod:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-ge ... avy.Video/

Indicates that some at least knew about it. But this is pretty easy to explain. The military is generally not very proactive about this stuff, if no one formally complains, it's not a problem.

Edit: Opps..that was directed at Soontir

[General Zod]

Because ruining the career of what by all accounts is an effective officer over something as lame as this is bullshit, Flagg. Seriously, that's around twenty years of his life, and hundreds of thousands or even millions of of tax dollars worth of training going out the window because a handful of people got their ass chapped over a low-budget Navy themed SNL skit.

Now riddle me this, does him saying "fag" in a skit that was obviously meant to be humorous and non-discriminatory justify the damage done to him?

Have you actually seen the videos? How do you know it was "obviously" meant to be non-discriminatory? If he had been making jokes about black men and using the "N' word instead of gay men do you still think they'd be overreacting?

[Mr. Coffee]

Indicates that some at least knew about it. But this is pretty easy to explain. The military is generally not very proactive about this stuff, if no one formally complains, it's not a problem.

I find it rather hard to believe that the Navy missed something like this during the vetting process to decide if he was fit to be given command of a fucking aircraft carrier.

[Aaron]

I find it rather hard to believe that the Navy missed something like this during the vetting process to decide if he was fit to be given command of a fucking aircraft carrier.

I'm not saying they missed it. I'm saying they didn't care at the time. They were made over three years ago right?

[Mr. Coffee]

Have you actually seen the videos? How do you know it was "obviously" meant to be non-discriminatory?

Yes, I have seen parts of them (for fuck's sake, I linked to an edited version of it on Youtube earlier in the thread0, and to me it's pretty goddamned obvious that he wasn't encouraging discrimination against gays, Zod. Have you seen any of the videos in whole or in part?

I'm not saying they missed it. I'm saying they didn't care at the time. They were made over three years ago right?

The videos were made in 2006 and 2007, so about three to four years, yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah, like I said, if no one complains, it isn't a problem. When they were made, DADT going bye-bye wasn't conceivable, different culture, blah, blah, blah. If it even entered into the equation the promotion board probably figured it wasn't worth holding against him.

Now someone has formally complained, so action has to be taken.

[General Zod]

Yes, I have seen parts of them (for fuck's sake, I linked to an edited version of it on Youtube earlier in the thread0, and to me it's pretty goddamned obvious that he wasn't encouraging discrimination against gays, Zod. Have you seen any of the videos in whole or in part?

I missed your link between all the whining and chest-thumping, I'll watch them once I'm on a computer where I have audio.

[Mr. Coffee]

No, someone forced the issue by leaking a copy of the videos to the media, who made a giant sensation of nothing, which in turn prompted the Navy to play CYA.

[Aaron]

No, someone forced the issue by leaking a copy of the videos to the media, who made a giant sensation of nothing, which in turn prompted the Navy to play CYA.

*shrug* Same thing really.

[General Zod]

If Tailhook was an indication of anything it's that the Navy is more than happy to sweep misconduct under the rug until a big enough stink is made of it.

[Aaron]

If Tailhook was an indication of anything it's that the Navy is more than happy to sweep misconduct under the rug until a big enough stink is made of it.

Yeah, why the military hasn't figured out that stuff like this always bites you in the ass is beyond me.

[mr friendly guy]

I have only seen a few clips on the video in question on the news, so I will withold judgment until I can properly view them. I do point out that this board itself uses harsh measures against people who use homophobic slurs.

homophobe banned
another one banned

And lets not forget the Jewrael thread. Its clear that sometimes "its more than just a word."

[Simon_Jester]

To be fair, kicking the guy off a carrier command is a much harsher punishment than kicking someone off SDN. The Navy has a higher obligation to have good reasons for removing people from job positions than the staff of a private web forum has for removing people from the forum.

On the other hand, if there have been complaints, and given that there's really not much evidence favoring the "no one was offended" interpretation (1700 of a crew of 3000+ is not "everyone," well, I can see the Navy's case.

It would be interesting to know the full breakdown of opinion on the ship.

[bobalot]

I work for the government. If I get caught making homophobic slurs or racist slurs in front of the public or the media, it's instantly punished (ranging from a formal reprimand to suspension from work) followed up by a review. Actually getting fired is also a very distinct possibility.

It is much the same if a fellow worker put in a formal complaint that I threw such slurs at colleagues and provided evidence (although dismissal is less likely).

Take note if I were actually dismissed, I would be blacklisted from ANY further employment in the government even if it were in another sector.

I'm finding it very fucking difficult to feel any sympathy for the Capt. Owen Honors.

[Darth Raptor]

The part of this that shits me is the captain's reaction to having complaints made. The whole "don't use the complaint box, come see me first so I can intimidate you we can talk things over," thing. It crops up a lot in organizations run by bro-dudes, which unsurprisingly include the crews of multi-billion dollar supercarriers.

[Kamakazie Sith]

He wasn't "fired" per se. He was reassigned to a desk job.

True, and that is a huge difference. It just seems like a waste of experience over the non-malicious use of a slur. Should he be disciplined? Yes. I'd like to hear from those offended by these videos and see what damage was done to them. For all we know there were several complaints and they were all ignored by the Captain. Those complaints ignored by the USN are a different matter and should face a separate investigation.

[General Zod]

He wasn't "fired" per se. He was reassigned to a desk job.

True, and that is a huge difference. It just seems like a waste of experience over the non-malicious use of a slur. Should he be disciplined? Yes. I'd like to hear from those offended by these videos and see what damage was done to them. For all we know there were several complaints and they were all ignored by the Captain. Those complaints ignored by the USN are a different matter and should face a separate investigation.

Frankly the thing that you should be bothered by isn't the fact that he's being reassigned over a slur, but the fact that he probably wouldn't have been punished at all if the videos hadn't gotten out to the public.

[mingo]

He was trying to entertain the crew, or are you seriously suggesting that he was publicly using gay slurs on purpose?

This is bullshit - either he should have been disciplined at the time, or this should have been left alone. Other than inappropriate use of fratboy humor, there's no evidence that Captain Honors is incompetent, racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise unfit for command. Relieving him of his command today is just political cover your ass bullshit.

OK, 14 yr navy vet here. the CO of the Enterprise, (or any ship for that matter) should not be an idiot. The higher rank and higher profile an officer becomes in the military, the more of a politician they become. Imagine what would happen if a US Senator posted videos like this. No matter right or wrong, true or false, doing this was just too stupid for me to trust him with nuclear weapons.

[Big Phil]

He was trying to entertain the crew, or are you seriously suggesting that he was publicly using gay slurs on purpose?

This is bullshit - either he should have been disciplined at the time, or this should have been left alone. Other than inappropriate use of fratboy humor, there's no evidence that Captain Honors is incompetent, racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise unfit for command. Relieving him of his command today is just political cover your ass bullshit.

OK, 14 yr navy vet here. the CO of the Enterprise, (or any ship for that matter) should not be an idiot. The higher rank and higher profile an officer becomes in the military, the more of a politician they become. Imagine what would happen if a US Senator posted videos like this. No matter right or wrong, true or false, doing this was just too stupid for me to trust him with nuclear weapons.

Which is why he should have been disciplined FOUR YEARS AGO. Letter of reprimand, loss of rank, general discharge, or something. But it wasn't handled at the time, and now, four years after the fact, people have lost their minds and no one is looking at this situation rationally. One the gay side, people are screeching "HOMOPHOBE!!! String him up!!!" and on the anti-gay side, "What's the big deal? Can't those queers take a joke? Hur hur"

[Flagg]

The fact that he wasn't disciplined 4 years ago is a problem. For the people who failed to discipline him. I see no reason why he cannot be disciplined now. Is there a statute of limitations on incompetency?

[mr friendly guy]

To be fair, kicking the guy off a carrier command is a much harsher punishment than kicking someone off SDN. The Navy has a higher obligation to have good reasons for removing people from job positions than the staff of a private web forum has for removing people from the forum.

.

Thats true. However I see people saying if you can't take a homophobe "joke" why don't you go after comedians as well hur hur. By the same token if people can't take this "political correctness" and bitch about it affecting our esteemed CO, why do the stick on a board which bans people for using the same word. That type of pseudo logic works both ways.

[Thanas]

Double post by Bluewolf on page 2 deleted.

[Bluewolf]

why do the stick on a board which bans people for using the same word

Because the perceived positives of the board outweigh what they see as a negative.

Though to be honest I will go out on a limb to say that instant ban offences can be overly harsh if applied without any form of context or consideration of the situation. It's unfair to instant ban a respected member of a forum if he got pissy and used such words but it's easily understandable if you get rid of a person who has been a total and constant jackass to a forum.

[Thanas]

Though to be honest I will go out on a limb to say that instant ban offences can be overly harsh if applied without any form of context or consideration of the situation. It's unfair to instant ban a respected member of a forum if he got pissy and used such words but it's easily understandable if you get rid of a person who has been a total and constant jackass to a forum.

On the contrary, respected members are required to conduct themselves with the same standard as new members are. And you, who has been given ample leniency given the situation, are really the last person who should say anything on these matters.