Uprising in Libya

[weemadando]

Hey. It was an Osprey that did the SAR.

At some point it seems to have entered my consciousness as a perpetual white elephant that will never see service, and despite reading all the reports of it operating in A'Stan etc obviously on some level I never actually believed them.

[PeZook]

The attack probably happened because, well, there's no procedure in place for the rebels to identify themselves, I guess, and no liaison officers who could've radioed in a "we are going to go and save the pilot don't kill us, k?" back to the allied forces.

This underscores the importance of communications when working with air support.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well my question from laser night got answered all day today; if reports on the BBC and elsewhere are correct, and for the most part reports of Coalition strikes have been, repeated air strikes in Misratah have silenced Gaddafis artillery and his tanks have been destroyed in the streets or driven from the city. But the battle still goes on as snipers are still shooting people, and some of his infantry have apparently taken shelter in the city hospital. Still it gives the rebels who had held out under a near month of siege a chance to liberate the city, again. Misratah falling firmly back into rebels hands will mean certain long term defeat of Gaddafi, his rule in the west can never be secure no matter what else happens with such a large city, relatively speaking, so close to Tripoli.

[Tribun]

This just in: The Libyan air force is, after all information was analysed, no more. Not just grounded, but no more. The air defense is also pretty much demolished, which means that any time Gaddafi's forces start a big attack against a city, it'd be suicide for them.

If he bull-headedly goes on with attacks, he'll soon have no heavy armor and artillery left, which'll be very bad for him.

[wautd]

This just in: The Libyan air force is, after all information was analysed, no more. Not just grounded, but no more.

Jets with 70's era technology vs modern ones with little place to hide? For coalition pilots, it must have been like playing Ace Combat on easy

[Ritterin Sophia]

I've heard NATO has taken command of their Forces and are changing the operational targets from the Air Force and armored units to any military target flying Gadaffi's flag. Any corroboration on that?

[Lord Woodlouse]

Now the problem is peeling loyalist troops from the cities. Is there any hope on that front? They seem to be failing miserably to take Ajdabiya.

[Tribun]

Now the problem is peeling loyalist troops from the cities. Is there any hope on that front? They seem to be failing miserably to take Ajdabiya.

No idea. However they are busy right at the moment with blasting the shit out of Gaddafi's forces at Misrata to break the siege. After what I heard they pretty much destroyed all of the heavy armor and weapons.

[Sea Skimmer]

Now the problem is peeling loyalist troops from the cities. Is there any hope on that front? They seem to be failing miserably to take Ajdabiya.

They can't take Ajdabiya because Gaddafi still has a lot of T-72 tanks around the town, some of which are hiding among the houses on the edges, though the city center has always been rebel held under siege. Even the most elite troops would be hard pressed to deal tanks like that given only light weapons; but for the moment air support is all going to Misratah. Hopefully it a few sorties will go towards Ajdabiya tommorrow now that it appears the armor and artillery around Misratah is being liquidated. The problem is Zintan is also now coming under armored attack, and since its clear the coalition is limiting the pace of anti armor strikes, or at least was until today, destroying the concentrations around Zintan may take priority over Ajdabiya in turn.

Hopefully is someone will find a few dollars make some concrete filled bombs again. Those worked pretty well in 2003 to attack tanks parked in city streets, and I suspect some may have been used in Misratah. The bombs can bounce off and still hurt people; but usually they just crashed through the engine deck and put the tank out of action, even if it was not totally destroyed.

Anyone else laughing at Putin for questioning that the US ect... might be killing civilians? I mean this is the man who had Grozny shelled flat for two months without even trying to seize it. I really hope someone in our worthless world media will call him out on that, but it is unlikely.

[TheHammer]

Anyone else laughing at Putin for questioning that the US ect... might be killing civilians? I mean this is the man who had Grozny shelled flat for two months without even trying to seize it. I really hope someone in our worthless world media will call him out on that, but it is unlikely.

There is no shortage of hypocrisy going around. Both foreign and domestic. The worst ones are Republicans who days ago were bashing Obama for "not doing anything" and today are bashing him for "having done something".

[wautd]

Now the problem is peeling loyalist troops from the cities. Is there any hope on that front? They seem to be failing miserably to take Ajdabiya.

Anyone else laughing at Putin for questioning that the US ect... might be killing civilians? I mean this is the man who had Grozny shelled flat for two months without even trying to seize it. I really hope someone in our worthless world media will call him out on that, but it is unlikely.

Is the current anti-war stance by Russia purely because they're making more oil money now or am I just cynical?

[Tribun]

This just in: Apparently heavy air strikes managed to break the siege of Misrata, driving away or destroying the bulk of the army. The only thing left are a small number of foot soldiers who already had moved in and now are without reinforcements.

[Lonestar]

This just in: Apparently heavy air strikes managed to break the siege of Misrata, driving away or destroying the bulk of the army. The only thing left are a small number of foot soldiers who already had moved in and now are without reinforcements.

Skimmer said that 9 posts up.

[Tribun]

This just in: Apparently heavy air strikes managed to break the siege of Misrata, driving away or destroying the bulk of the army. The only thing left are a small number of foot soldiers who already had moved in and now are without reinforcements.

Skimmer said that 9 posts up.

Oh, must've missed it.

Btw., it was now pretty much declared a free-for-all. Now that air defense is out, their objective is to destroy ground forces.

[Skylon]

There is no shortage of hypocrisy going around. Both foreign and domestic. The worst ones are Republicans who days ago were bashing Obama for "not doing anything" and today are bashing him for "having done something".

I'm enjoying the screams about how "Oh no...the US may be under....GASP....FOREIGN MILITARY COMMAND!" from the right.

Someone needs to read up on WWII when there were plenty of times US forces found themselves under the authority of the British, and that it wasn't just "RAR! America! Fuck yeah!" that made Eisenhower Supreme Allied Commander. Or maybe just explain to them how a military alliance works.

[MKSheppard]

Link

The escalation has gone hand-in-hand with an Americanization of the conflict. Over the past 24 hours, coalition aircraft have flown 175 sorties over Libya, with U.S. pilots flying 113 of those missions. By contrast, on Monday, Odyssey Dawn flew fewer than 80 sorties, with “well over half” of them coming from non-U.S. planes, according to Gen. Carter Ham. Lesson: when the fighting gets serious, U.S. pilots are the ones you call.

That’s a big deal: the Libya mission is supposed to transition to a new multinational command, with the U.S. combat role diminishing. Today’s attacks on Gadhafi’s ground forces raise the question of how rapidly that transition can occur if Gadhafi’s forces don’t give in.

[MKSheppard]

Aviation Week has reported sightings of SA-24 GRINCH on Libyan Army trucks. Rumor has it they came from Venezula.

So as a result, combat air patrols are being done at 20,000+ ft or higher, well above the 11,000 ft ceiling of the SA-24 GRINCH.

[Tribun]

Aviation Week has reported sightings of SA-24 GRINCH on Libyan Army trucks. Rumor has it they came from Venezula.

So as a result, combat air patrols are being done at 20,000+ ft or higher, well above the 11,000 ft ceiling of the SA-24 GRINCH.

So another contribution from Gaddafi's pal Hugo. Another reason to dislike him.

[Sea Skimmer]

Oh, must've missed it.

Btw., it was now pretty much declared a free-for-all. Now that air defense is out, their objective is to destroy ground forces.

The siege is not broken. Even if they take the whole city the siege is not broke. The battle for the city is not even remotely over, its just the civilians, no distinction between rebel and civilian is being made even remotely by Gaddafis troops, its just now they aren't being slaughtered by tanks and artillery they cannot hope to match. Gaddafi has been position forces up and down several main roads in the city for over a week now, while they don't have armor support they still had better light weapons and lots of ammo and are on the upper floors of heavy multi story buildings. Reports are they are still moving as infantry in the city in civilian cars. The hospital is still being hit by constant sniper fire. My hope is the rebels start throwing out anything and everything they can find as roadblocks to shut that street down now that the tanks are gone. But its a big city.

This is the limit of air power, fixed wing aircraft can blow away the tanks and artillery and major support trucks easily enough, but we can't stop a major infantry battle in a city. At best we can hope to send in a Predator orbit to slowly figure out who is shooting at what, and kill Gaddafis snipers off one by one. That'd likely break the moral of Gaddafi forces, but it'd take serious time and its not clear any Predator time is being taken away from Iraq and Afghanistan. Global Hawk and E-8 working together can do everything we need against armor.


Eidt; just saw on CNN a guy reporting on how this night the AAA in Tripoli only fired AFTER the bombs fell in an air raid. Every other time they had opened up prior to the raids. This suggests either they are now afraid of being hit, or they may no longer have any effective early warning system over the capital at all. Some reports also suggest the only people in the entire city who ever shot back against the air raids are guards right about a few Gaddafi controlled compounds. That's very hopeful.

[Sea Skimmer]

Aviation Week has reported sightings of SA-24 GRINCH on Libyan Army trucks. Rumor has it they came from Venezula.

So as a result, combat air patrols are being done at 20,000+ ft or higher, well above the 11,000 ft ceiling of the SA-24 GRINCH.

CNN had a big reel of video of a very very new looking MANPADS launcher on a twin mount on the bed of a pro Gaddafi technical during the battle at Ras Lanouf. I thought it was a Stinger at first, then wasn't sure what it has. It almost certainly was SA-24 now that I look it up and it had to have come out of the box new before it went on that vehicle. Kind of blatant, and it will hurt the accuracy of laser guided weapons but not a big difference in the end.

Edit: and the reports now say Misrata is back under bombardment. Not surprising, I'm sure far more equipment was abandoned under threat of air attack then actually destroyed. But the planes will be back, it won't stop now when the only way out now is for the Coalition to win.

[wautd]

Aviation Week has reported sightings of SA-24 GRINCH on Libyan Army trucks. Rumor has it they came from Venezula.

So as a result, combat air patrols are being done at 20,000+ ft or higher, well above the 11,000 ft ceiling of the SA-24 GRINCH.

Edit: and the reports now say Misrata is back under bombardment.

While coalition forces attack military targets, Kadhafi's forces attack a hospital. Got to stay classy right?

[Enigma]

A Canadian fighter jet has bombed a munitions depot in Misrata and another attack is planned later today.

Yahoo Canada

Canadian fighter jets bombed their first target in Libya overnight, destroying a munitions depot in the third city of Misrata, military officials said Wednesday.

"Last night's mission resulted in the destruction of a munitions depot in northern Libya," Assistant Chief of the Air Staff Major-General Tom Lawson said, adding that another sortie by CF-18 fighter jets was due Wednesday.

[Tribun]

Reports about a bombing of a huge military compound near Tajura are in. Apparently whatever they hit, it caused a horrific chain reaction with explosions so loud, they could still be heard in Tripoli (which is over 30 kilometers away).

[Sea Skimmer]

While coalition forces attack military targets, Kadhafi's forces attack a hospital. Got to stay classy right?

Totalitarian leaning regimes always go after the hospitals, its unacceptable to them that anyone should even get away wounded. Defiance is death. Dictators are usually too dumb to realize that wounded people are actually a liability to rebels; they prefer dead bodies they can bury in mass graves to hide the evidence in plain site of locals for decades longer. Usually though they have enough control that they simply stop the hospitals from taking anyone in. During the Tiananmen Square massacres the PLA shutdown the medical system in Beijing to ensure that as many students as possible died for example.

One report on the BBC way earlier, when protesting was still going on in the streets of Tripoli and had not yet been murdered into suppression, that pro Gaddafi death squads were actually driving around the city in stolen ambulances with the sirens on, and when they found people trying to help other wounded people in the streets they'd drive right up like they were coming to help, then leap out and gun everyone down.

Might have only happened once, or be an embellishment, but does anyone think Gaddafi wouldn't have personally ordered this tactic used if he'd so much as thought of it?

Reports about a bombing of a huge military compound near Tajura are in. Apparently whatever they hit, it caused a horrific chain reaction with explosions so loud, they could still be heard in Tripoli (which is over 30 kilometers away).

Big ammo bunker complex, 99% certain if that is the report coming in, I marked it as a target a month ago, I will post google earth of the complex, I have been waiting for it to be exploded. A huge army motor pool in the area too.

[Sea Skimmer]

With hope the following facilities are being blown away; the Tajura ammunition dump is the only major ammunition dump anywhere near central Tripoli, and its easily a 10,000 ton class dump. Even if Gaddafi has certainly dispersed a large portion of his small arms ammo, it cannot have had any real option but to keep most of the tank and artillery ammo in the bunkers. Dispersing it would be a pretty big risk, and more importantly it would have taken a fair bit of manpower and time with no obvious value until just a few days ago. Without this ammo supply close to the capital his ability to fight a drawn out conventional battle is seriously undermined. The motor pool and barracks area is likely mostly empty, but destroying anything left is still useful.










Another big ammo dump like this is right on the edge of Misratah but it appears likely to be air force ammunition. Repeated strikes at Misratah have been described as attacking ammunition depots or the airport, which has been a gaddafi forces base since it was retaken from rebels in the early fighting. The airport itself was burned down in the first couple days. It was once a glorious sign of a swift rebel victory.


Ammo dump is lower left of the airport with a big empty area in-between.