Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Broomstick »

Gandalf wrote: 2024-06-02 10:07pm
Broomstick wrote: 2024-06-02 08:04pm You're delusional if you think Trump would be any better for anyone. Trump is best buddies with Netanyahu, and Netanyahu can probably play Trump like a fiddle and get whatever he wants.

Unfortunately the choice in November is between those two old men.
There are also the options to stay home or vote third party, since neither major candidate is catering to the "genocide is bad" crowd.
Voting third party is generally as useless as staying home.

This may surprise you, but as horrific as the war crimes in Israel it's not the only life-or-death matter that will be affected by who winds up in the Oval Office.

But sure, let's play your game.

Chase Oliver (Libertarian) called the current mess a genocide. He is the ONLY 3rd party on enough state ballots to actually be able to win. So, OK, he's good for you on that issue but he's rabidly pro-gun which is killing tens of thousands of Americans so may be of more immediate important to people actually living (or trying to) in the US. And he's entirely laissez-faire on climate change, which stands to kill even more people world wide. Oh, and he wants to end all US aid to Ukraine so voting for him to end the Gaza-Israel genocide might result in a Ukrainian genocide so that's a wash. Electing him might save the Gazans (which is definitely good for those people) but it's going to suck for Ukraine and a bunch of other people. I dunno, you tell me - is exchanging one genocide for another a good deal? Yeah, it sort of sucks all around.

Jill Stein (Green) is the only one of the lot in any way pro-Palestinian but hasn't managed to get onto enough ballots to have any chance of winning. Her campaign is doomed from the start. Also, I am unable to vote for her because she has not managed to satisfy the Indiana election board and get on the ballot. Maybe she can get a couple more states to give her even a minimal chance of winning but unlikely at this point. Other than the Libertarians she's the only 3rd Party with any chance of doing that at this point.

RFK, Jr. is openly advocating Israel do more of the same, only harder. Except he has not managed to get on sufficient state ballots to have any possibility of winning.

Cornel West is largely in the "both sides are bad" camp. Not sure he'd do a damn thing, either. Oh, and hasn't managed to get on more than 5 state ballots so, again, no chance of winning.

To hell with it - here's the wiki on US third party candidates. The upshot is that only the Libertarian candidate has any possibility of winning, and is the only one I'd even be able to vote for as he's the only one on the Indiana ballot.

The ONLY chance I have of my little drop in the ocean having any impact whatsoever is to choose between Biden and Trump. Frankly, I don't like either. It would very much be a matter of voting for the lesser evil.

Nor am I going to "stay home" because that would remove my voice in State and local elections where my vote is far less diluted and might actually be able to create a positive change, even if only on a smaller scale than Federal.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Khaat »

The time for "protest votes" is during primaries. A third-party with virtually ZERO support in the House or Senate is a non-starter administration.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Rogue 9 »

Ralin wrote: 2024-06-02 10:58pm Why is anyone still talking about electoral politics as a factor stopping Biden from halting aid?
Because it is. Overall the American electorate still polls in support for Israel.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Ralin »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2024-06-03 09:44pm
Ralin wrote: 2024-06-02 10:58pm Why is anyone still talking about electoral politics as a factor stopping Biden from halting aid?
ABecause it is. Overall the American electorate still polls in support for Israel.
Doesn't matter when Biden the self-described Zionist is personally several steps past the general public in terms of his support for Israel and most of the opposition to Israel is coming from within his own party and supporters anyway.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Broomstick »

Khaat wrote: 2024-06-03 02:11pm The time for "protest votes" is during primaries. A third-party with virtually ZERO support in the House or Senate is a non-starter administration.
^ This.

For example, I could see an argument for me choosing to vote for Nikki Haley in the Indiana Republican Primary even though she had withdrawn from the race by the time the Indiana primary took place as a "not Trump" vote within the party. Much like in Michigan many Democrats essentially voted "not Biden".
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Israel confirms deaths of 4 hostages
Israel's military says it has established the deaths of four more people abducted by Hamas on 7 October.
It says the four were killed while together during an Israeli operation in Khan Younis in southern Gaza, adding that their bodies were still being held by the militants.

The men were named as British-Israeli Nadav Popplewell, 51, Chaim Peri, 79, Yoram Metzger, 80, and Amiram Cooper, 85.

IDF spokesman Rear Adm Daniel Hagari said intelligence gathered in recent weeks had led to the assessment.
"We assess that the four of them were killed while together in the area of Khan Younis during our operation there against Hamas," he said, without giving further details.
Last month, Hamas claimed that Nadav Popplewell had died in an Israeli strike in April. The UK Foreign Office said it was investigating, but there was no confirmation of his death until now.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Gandalf »

As to not derail this with election stuff, I posted in the sticky.
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That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Rogue 9 »

NPR
Israel says it has rescued 4 hostages held in Gaza
Updated June 8, 2024 8:17 AM ET

Hannah Bloch

TEL AVIV, Israel — Israel announced on Saturday the rescue of four hostages from central Gaza in a "complex special daytime operation in Nuseirat," where they’d been held after being kidnapped from Israel by Hamas-led militants during the Oct. 7 attack.

The rescued hostages were identified as Noa Argamani, 25, Almog Meir Jan, 21, Andrey Kozlov, 27, and Shlomi Ziv, 40.

In a joint statement, Israel’s military, police and Shin Bet domestic security agency said: “They are in good medical condition and have been transferred to a hospital in Israel "for further medical examinations.”

Hamas-led militants kidnapped some 240 people on Oct. 7. With the rescue of these four hostages today, 120 remain in captivity -- about a third of whom are believed dead.

Israel's Hostages Family Forum called the rescue operation "heroic."

In a statement, the group said: "The Israeli government must remember its commitment to bring back all 120 hostages still held by Hamas - the living for rehabilitation, the murdered for burial.

"We continue to call upon the international community to apply the necessary pressure on Hamas to accept the proposed deal and release the other 120 hostages held in captivity; every day there is a day too far."

This is a developing story and will be updated.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2024-06-08 08:59am NPR
Israel says it has rescued 4 hostages held in Gaza
Updated June 8, 2024 8:17 AM ET

Hannah Bloch

TEL AVIV, Israel — Israel announced on Saturday the rescue of four hostages from central Gaza in a "complex special daytime operation in Nuseirat," where they’d been held after being kidnapped from Israel by Hamas-led militants during the Oct. 7 attack.

The rescued hostages were identified as Noa Argamani, 25, Almog Meir Jan, 21, Andrey Kozlov, 27, and Shlomi Ziv, 40.

In a joint statement, Israel’s military, police and Shin Bet domestic security agency said: “They are in good medical condition and have been transferred to a hospital in Israel "for further medical examinations.”

Hamas-led militants kidnapped some 240 people on Oct. 7. With the rescue of these four hostages today, 120 remain in captivity -- about a third of whom are believed dead.

Israel's Hostages Family Forum called the rescue operation "heroic."

In a statement, the group said: "The Israeli government must remember its commitment to bring back all 120 hostages still held by Hamas - the living for rehabilitation, the murdered for burial.

"We continue to call upon the international community to apply the necessary pressure on Hamas to accept the proposed deal and release the other 120 hostages held in captivity; every day there is a day too far."

This is a developing story and will be updated.
It's about time they successfully rescued some hostages instead of shooting them.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by muse »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2024-06-08 07:23pm It's about time they successfully rescued some hostages instead of shooting them.
And they only killed 200+ people to do it along with injuring over 400 more, with many of them being civilians & children. This is not acceptable, and there's a special place in hell for anyone who condones these actions.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/08/middleea ... index.html
Israel rescues four hostages in operation Gazan officials say killed more than 200
By Benjamin Brown, Niamh Kennedy, Abeer Salman, Kareem Khadder, Tamar Michaelis, Lauren Izso and journalist Mohammad al-Sawalhi, CNN

The Israeli military rescued four hostages in a special operation in the Nuseirat refugee camp, central Gaza, that Gazan authorities said killed 236 people and injured more than 400 others.

Noa Argamani, Almog Meir Jan, Andrey Kozlov, and Shlomi Ziv, were rescued by the Israeli military, intelligence and special forces from two separate locations in Nuseirat, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said Saturday.

All four were kidnapped from the Nova music festival on October 7.

“They are in good medical condition and have been transferred to the ‘Sheba’ Tel-HaShomer Medical Center for further medical examinations,” the IDF added.

An Israeli policeman from a special counter-terrorism unit was killed in Saturday’s rescue operation, according to Israeli police.

News of the rescue came soon after Israel’s military said it was operating in Nuseirat and other areas of central Gaza, where heavy shelling and artillery fire was reported.

At least 236 people have been killed as a result of the rescue operation and more than 400 injured, hospital officials in Gaza said Saturday.

The killed and wounded were taken to two hospitals in Gaza, Al-Awda Hospital in Nuseirat and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir Al-Balah. Al-Awda Hospital director Dr Marwan Abu Nasser told CNN that 142 bodies had been counted at the medical facility by late Saturday, while Al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah said 94 bodies had been counted.

CNN has no way of verifying casualty numbers reported by Palestinian officials in Gaza. Medical records in the war-torn enclave do not differentiate between civilians and militants killed.

An Israeli military spokesperson put the number of casualties from the operation at “under 100,” and had no information on how many of those were civilians.

Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari said Israeli forces had to enter civilian areas to reach hostages as this was where Hamas had embedded itself.

He said the hostages had been locked in two separate apartments in civilian multi-story buildings about 200 meters (650 feet) apart, with Argamani held in a different building to the three males. He said the IDF had received intelligence on their location beforehand, noting that hostages in Gaza were frequently moved around and Argamani had previously been held elsewhere. Similar raids had been called off at the last minute “more than three or four times” due to unfavorable conditions, he added.

The first phase of Saturday’s operation saw the IDF target militant infrastructure with pre-planned strikes, Hagari said.

For the rescue, the IDF had opted for a daytime operation because of the element of surprise, he added, and it had prepared by building models of the apartments the hostages were held in.

Hagari said that the IDF had come under intense fire, especially after withdrawing from the apartments, but did not provide evidence for his claims.

Saturday was an “emotional and happy day for the state of Israel and the IDF,” Hagari said, though he cautioned that most of the remaining hostages were not being held in conditions that would allow for similar operations.

Following Saturday’s announcement, the total number of hostages still held in the Gaza Strip from October 7 is now 116, of which at least 41 are dead.

On the ground in Gaza, locals described scenes of carnage following the strikes that led up to the rescue.

Nidal Abdo, was shopping in Nuseirat on Saturday when he described a “crazy bombardment” hitting. “[It was] something we never witnessed before, maybe 150 rockets fell in less than 10 minutes, while we were running away more fell on the market,” he said.

“There are children torn apart and scattered in the streets, they wiped out Nuseirat, it is hell on earth,” he said.

Another local, Abu Abdallah, said the strike hit while people were sleeping, adding: “Dogs were eating people’s remains. We pulled out six martyrs, all torn up children and women, we risked our lives to get them to the hospital.”

Footage from Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital shows trucks and ambulances transferring injured people and bodies to the hospital. Inside the hospital, people can be seen waiting on the floor.

Graphic video shows many Palestinians, including children, injured with blood on their faces and clothes. Footage from the hospital also shows people screaming and crying, huddled over bodies covered in blankets.

Hamas described the operation as a “brutal crime, devoid of the values of civilization and humanity,” saying the Israeli military “committed a horrific massacre against innocent civilians.”

Hamas said the rescue would not change Israel’s “strategic failure in the Gaza Strip,” as the group still holds a large number of other hostages after eight months of fighting.

The group’s leader Ismail Haniyeh said, “Our people will not surrender, and the resistance will continue to defend our rights in the face of this criminal enemy.”

Abu Obaida, the spokesman for the group’s armed wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, also claimed some hostages had been killed during the rescue mission, but provided no proof and did not elaborate on the identities of who had purportedly died.

In a post on Telegram, he said the rescue raid “posed a great danger” to the remaining hostages and “will have a devastating impact on their conditions and lives.”

Asked about the claim, the Israel Defense Forces said, “Hamas is a terrorist organization that uses psychological terrorism in order to achieve its goals, accordingly its statements should be taken with limited credibility.”

Hostage rescues are rare: this is only the third such successful operation. IDF Corporal Ori Megidish was rescued in October last year from the northern Gaza Strip. In another operation on February 12 this year, Fernando Marman and Louis Har were rescued from southern Rafah.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

It's a clusterfuck for sure and it seems that if there's any way to make it even worse, Israel has demonstrated a determination to find it.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Crazedwraith »

The BCC wrote: Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz has quit the emergency government in a sign of deepening divisions over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's post-conflict plans for Gaza.

Speaking during a news conference in Tel Aviv on Sunday where he announced his resignation, Mr Gantz said the decision was made with a "heavy heart".

"Unfortunately, Mr Netanyahu is preventing us from approaching true victory, which is the justification for the painful ongoing crisis," he said.

Considered by some to be a potential challenger for power in Israel, Mr Gantz called on Mr Netanyahu to set a date for elections.

Mr Netanyahu responded with a post on X: “Benny, this is not the time to quit the campaign, this is the time to join forces."

Opposition leader Yair Lapid backed Mr Gantz's decision as “important and right” on social media.

Immediately after the announcement, far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir demanded a place in the war cabinet.

Mr Ben-Gvir is part of a right-wing coalition that has threatened to quit and collapse the government if Israel accepts a ceasefire proposal put forward by US President Joe Biden.

Last month, Mr Gantz set a deadline of 8 June for Mr Netanyahu to lay out how Israel would achieve its six "strategic goals", including the end of Hamas rule in Gaza and the establishment of a multinational civilian administration for the territory.

The prime minister dismissed the comments at the time as "washed-up words" that would mean "defeat for Israel".

A retired army general and frequent critic of Mr Netayanhu, Mr Gantz had been a member of Israel's key decision-making "war cabinet", along with the prime minister and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant.

During the news conference, Mr Gantz said he is not only personally resigning from the government, but withdrawing the National Unity party he chairs, too.

The move will not topple the Israeli government, since Mr Netanyahu will still hold a comfortable majority of 64 in the 120-seat Knesset.

It does, however, further isolate the prime minister and lay bare the deep political divisions over how he is running the war.

The resignation also comes one day before US Secretary of State Antony Blinken makes a three-day trip to the region, where he plans to visit Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Qatar to press for a ceasefire agreement.

A political rival of Benjamin Netanyahu and a former IDF chief of staff, Mr Gantz's centrist National Unity party was in opposition until 11 October 2023 when, after the start of the war following Hamas's 7 October attacks, he agreed to form an emergency government with Mr Netanyahu.

National Unity holds five posts in the emergency government.

Mr Gantz's influence in the government was widely seen as a counterbalance to that of far-right members of Mr Netanyahu’s coalition.

In a separate development on Sunday, Israel's army announced the resignation of a senior commander who headed the IDF's Gaza division over what he called his failure to prevent the 7 October attacks.

Brigadier General Avi Rosenfeld is the first IDF combat commander to step down since the attacks.
There is at least some internal dissent here.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Elfdart »

muse wrote: 2024-06-08 09:02pm
EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2024-06-08 07:23pm It's about time they successfully rescued some hostages instead of shooting them.
And they only killed 200+ people to do it along with injuring over 400 more, with many of them being civilians & children. This is not acceptable, and there's a special place in hell for anyone who condones these actions.
That's some Team America shit.

Obviously the point of this raid was to massacre Palestinians. Saving four hostages was a bonus and a handy excuse.

It was creepy enough with all the TikTok videos of IDF stormtroopers donning the underwear of the Palestinian women and girls they had just slaughtered or burned out of their homes (I got the impression that they had watched Silence of the Lambs and thought Buffalo Bill was the hero), but taking victory laps after blowing away civilians and using the presence of hostages as an excuse makes me think they watched The Searchers and thought Ethan Edwards was on to something.

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