Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

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Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by PainRack »

https://people.com/crime/army-veteran-d ... -q-gunman/
An army veteran and a drag performer helped stop a gunman from killing and injuring more victims at an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colo., over the weekend.

At least five people are dead and 18 others are injured after a gunman opened fire at Club Q on Saturday evening.

According to authorities, 22-year-old Anderson Lee Aldrich allegedly used a long rifle at Club Q, on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance.
So a drag queen is more brave than the Uldvale/Texas police.


For anyone bothering to count, even after Dickens stopped a mass shooting , you will need 97 more examples to equal good guys without guns stopping mass shooters than good guys with guns.
https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2022/jul ... with-guns/
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Zwinmar »

Of course: He actually acted while the Uvalde LT. on scene was on the phone with dispatch and waited 30 minutes just to make sure the kids fully bled out.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

PainRack wrote: 2022-11-22 07:36am https://people.com/crime/army-veteran-d ... -q-gunman/
An army veteran and a drag performer helped stop a gunman from killing and injuring more victims at an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colo., over the weekend.

At least five people are dead and 18 others are injured after a gunman opened fire at Club Q on Saturday evening.

According to authorities, 22-year-old Anderson Lee Aldrich allegedly used a long rifle at Club Q, on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance.
So a drag queen is more brave than the Uldvale/Texas police.


For anyone bothering to count, even after Dickens stopped a mass shooting , you will need 97 more examples to equal good guys without guns stopping mass shooters than good guys with guns.
https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2022/jul ... with-guns/
You dropped a comparison. 97 times is Vs bad guy shooting themselves

"That means good guys with guns now only need to stop 97 more shooters before they will equal the number of times the bad guys have ended their attack by killing themselves. And they’ll only need to shoot 29 more bad guys to equal the number of times a good guy without a gun has subdued attackers by tackling them, hitting them or otherwise stopping them without using a gun.

That’s right, three times as many mass shooters have been stopped by unarmed civilians as have been stopped by armed “good guys with guns.” And bad guys with guns are almost nine times as likely to shoot themselves as they are to be shot by an armed civilian or good Samaritan."
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by LadyTevar »

Before we get off on a side-track about "Good Guys With Guns", lets review what happened.
Wikipedia wrote:On November 19–20, 2022, a mass shooting occurred at Club Q, an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado, United States. Five people were killed, and 25 others were injured, 19 of them by gunfire. The suspect, 22-year-old Anderson Lee Aldrich, was also injured and taken to a local hospital.

BBC News wrote:15-year Army Veteran Richard Fierro reacted as a military vet, taking the target to the floor. Fierro then grabbed the pistol Aldrich had on him and proceeded to pistol-whip Aldrich as they fought on the floor, and then ordered a passing drag queen to "Kick his head!". Said drag queen, named as Donald James, planted their high heel in Aldrich's face.
From here: Attack Ended by Father and Drag Queen
Fierro was there with his wife and child, just watching the show. Allegedly one of the murdered bartenders was dating his daughter. From what I'm reading, Fierro just let his military training take over. Threat ID'd, threat taken down, threat neutralized with extreme prejudice. Which explains why Aldrich is in custody at the hospital; Fierro beat the shit out of him and the drag queen probably broke his face with their high heels.

Now, let's look a little more at what we've found out about Anderson Lee Aldrich:
Wiki wrote:The suspect was identified as Anderson Lee Aldrich (born Nicholas F. Brink; 2000), a 22-year-old resident of Colorado Springs, as well as the grandson of outgoing California State Assembly member Randy Voepel of the Republican Party. On June 18, 2021, Aldrich, then 21, was arrested after his mother reported him to have issued a bomb threat against her; Aldrich did not surrender initially, and in the resulting standoff, neighboring homes had to be evacuated. However, no charges were pursued in the case, which was sealed. There is also no record that the police or relatives attempted to trigger the Colorado "red flag" law, which would have allowed for the seizure of any weapons and ammo that the individual had in their possession
His grandfather, by the way, fully drank the current Trump Koolaide. After a recent redistricting, he lost his Assembly Seat by a wide margin.
Voepel at one point aligned himself with the Tea Party movement, saying that the Republican Party was too liberal. Following the January 6 United States Capitol attack, Voepel said, "This is Lexington and Concord. First shots fired against tyranny. Tyranny will follow in the aftermath of the Biden swear in on January 20th.
But Wait, There's MORE!
Colorado Shooting Suspect's Mother Once Arrested for Arson
Laura Voepel, the mother of suspected Colorado Springs shooter Anderson Aldrich, was arrested for suspected arson in 2012, according to court records reviewed by Newsweek.
In the days following the shooting, details have emerged about Aldrich and his family, casting light on his upbringing.
Court records from Bexar County, Texas, indicate that Voepel was arrested on an arson charge in 2012 when Aldrich was not yet a teenager. It was unclear whether or not Aldrich was living with his mother at the time of the arrest.
The charge was later reduced to a lesser criminal mischief charge, and she was granted probation in August 2013 that went on to expire five years later in 2018, according to the court documents.
So. We have Anderson Lee Aldrich, who was probably pretty radicalized by his own family, to the point he *threatened his own mother*. We also see that both his mother and Aldrich got out of jail free, probably due to favors his grandfather called in.

The police are still investigating where Aldrich got the rifle and pistol as well as the ammo. I'm betting it will be either his mother or grandfather who paid for them.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Crazedwraith »

I've seen an image but can't verify that the drag queen referenced was not a drag queen and was in fact a transwoman.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by LadyTevar »

Let's also be respectful of those who died.

The Victims
Police have named five people killed in a shooting at a gay club in the US state of Colorado on Saturday night.

Club Q was known as a safe haven for the LGBT community in Colorado Springs, a feeling shattered when a gunman entered the nightclub and opened fire.
The five fatalities were Daniel Aston, Derrick Rump, Kelly Loving, Ashley Paugh and Raymond Vance. Seventeen others were left with gunshot wounds.
Two people subdued the shooter before police arrived.
The gunman is in police custody.

Daniel Davis Aston was a bartender at Club Q and had helped create its "positive culture", his colleague Michael Anderson told CNN.
Daniel's mother, Sabrina Aston, told the Denver Post that her 28-year-old son was in a good place in his life after struggling with his identity during his adolescence, having found peace after transitioning in college. He was a transgender man, according to US media.
The death of her youngest child "was unbelievable", and he had much more to give to the world, she said.
Friends have said Daniel loved to perform, including in drag shows.
"He never knew a stranger, from the time he was little," his mother said. "He always said, 'I'm shy,' but he wasn't. He wrote poetry, he loved to dress up, he got into drama in high school. He's an entertainer. That's what he really loves."
She hopes his death will not be in vain, and will help raise awareness about the issues faced by the trans community.

Aston was bartending at Club Q that night with Derrick Rump, 38, who also died.
Friends told CBS, the BBC's US partner, that he was a staple at Club Q and a warm presence behind the bar - someone who always kept a smile and enjoyed a joke.
"Loving, supportive, with a heavy hand in his drink pouring, and just a really good listener and would not be afraid to tell you when you were wrong instead of telling you what you wanted to hear and that was really valuable," his friend Anthony Jaramillo told CBS.

Another victim, Kelly Loving, was a 40-year-old transgender woman, according to US media.
Her sister Tiffany told the New York Times that she was informed by the FBI that she was among those killed.
A friend told the New York Times: "She was loving, always trying to help the next person out instead of thinking of herself. She just was a caring person. I was really close with her."

Ashley Paugh had spent the day with a friend in Colorado Springs and decided to have a fun evening at Club Q before she had planned to return home to her husband and 11-year-old daughter in La Junta, a town around 100 miles (160km) away, her sister told NBC News.
The 35-year-old was devoted to her family and loved the outdoors, Stephanie Clark told the network, and she had worked at a non-profit that helped find homes for foster children.
"Nothing will ever be the same without her," she said. "Right now, I don't want to laugh. She was a loving, caring person who would do anything for anybody. We're gonna miss her so much."
In a family statement, her husband Kurt said they are "absolutely devastated by the loss" of the woman he said was his high school sweetheart and an amazing mother with a "huge heart".
"She meant everything to this family, and we can't even begin to understand what it will mean to not have her in our lives."

On Monday, police identified the fifth victim as Raymond Green.
A statement by his family said: "The 22-year-old had never been to that nightclub before, and although he is supportive of the LGBTQ community, he himself is not a member of it.
"Unfortunately, he never left the club."
They said he had just received his first wages from a new job at a local FedEx centre, and he had been planning to save enough money to get his own flat.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by LadyTevar »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2022-11-22 01:10pm I've seen an image but can't verify that the drag queen referenced was not a drag queen and was in fact a transwoman.
Drag Queen or Transwoman, they did a good job smashing Aldrich's face in it sounds like. They might not want to speak to the press, however so we'll just leave them listed as "Drag Queen" for now.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Gandalf »

The coverage of this has been interesting. Some of the coverage of the victims has also included their pronouns, which is really cool.

More amusingly, MSNBC had a field reporter at the scene of the memorial, with the crowd in the background. Someone had a sign up that said (roughly) "Fox News is responsible." The camera zoomed in on the reporter until the sign was out of the shot.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Adam Reynolds »

PainRack wrote: 2022-11-22 07:36am For anyone bothering to count, even after Dickens stopped a mass shooting , you will need 97 more examples to equal good guys without guns stopping mass shooters than good guys with guns.
https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2022/jul ... with-guns/
This has been covered by others based on your own source, but for a detailed study featuring 160 incidents,the FBI shows that only one case featured an armed civilian stopping a mass shooting, with four more from armed security guards and another two from off duty cops. Unarmed civilians actually do better, at 21 cases. So 4.4% veruss 13.1%

A police response stopped 62 cases(38.7%), killing or wounding the shooter on the scene in 30 cases with another 4 shooters killed at other locations, while 2 surrendered and another 26 committed suicide after the police response.

In 90(56.3%) cases the shooter ended the incident on their own either by leaving(in 29 cases, with four cases in which the offender was still at large) or by suicide in the rest. (Note there is overlap between those stopped by the police and those who committed suicide)

So really a bad guy with a gun is the most likely thing to end a mass shooting in the majority of cases.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by PainRack »

Should we also mention that the Vet who stopped said shooting was arrested by the police?

To BE fair, that's what would happen in any such incident. I can't imagine a scenario where you walking out roughup and probably bloodied by you bashing a shooter down won't be mistaken as part of the perpetuator and arrested


But the PR image, especially given the US police support for Kyle Rittenhouse and other such armed groups is grotesques..
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Ralin »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-11-22 01:14pm. They might not want to speak to the press, however so we'll just leave them listed as "Drag Queen" for now.
Don't have a source handy to link, but I've seen at least one tweet from someone saying they were there/connected to someone who was saying she's transgender. And 'let's just default to drag queen until we're sure' is not a good take, considering
PainRack wrote: 2022-11-22 11:39pm Should we also mention that the Vet who stopped said shooting was arrested by the police?

To BE fair, that's what would happen in any such incident. I can't imagine a scenario where you walking out roughup and probably bloodied by you bashing a shooter down won't be mistaken as part of the perpetuator and arrested


But the PR image, especially given the US police support for Kyle Rittenhouse and other such armed groups is grotesques..
More to the point, he was apparently sobbing and screaming for someone to tell him if his loved ones were okay for like an hour and no one bothered to tell him anything
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Formless »

My sister is pretty shaken by this one. It turns out a lot of her friends in college used to hang out at this very club, and the one and only friend who didn't move out of the Springs had to message everyone that they were not there that day. Plus last Sunday was Transgender Day of Remembrance, which she and her wife can't help but think is no coincidence.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by LadyTevar »

It's been confirmed the other hero is a TransWoman.

My apologies for mis-gendering her and calling her a drag queen
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by RogueIce »

PainRack wrote: 2022-11-22 11:39pm Should we also mention that the Vet who stopped said shooting was arrested by the police?

To BE fair, that's what would happen in any such incident. I can't imagine a scenario where you walking out roughup and probably bloodied by you bashing a shooter down won't be mistaken as part of the perpetuator and arrested


But the PR image, especially given the US police support for Kyle Rittenhouse and other such armed groups is grotesques..
If he ended up bashing the shooter with the shooter's own gun, he may have been misidentified as being "the shooter" by people who saw him with a gun in his hand wailing on somebody. So, the police detain both until they figure out who the actual shooter was.

Granted if the shooter went in all "kitted out" that makes their misident a little less understandable, but I haven't heard how the shooter was dressed yet.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Broomstick »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-11-23 12:45pm It's been confirmed the other hero is a TransWoman.

My apologies for mis-gendering her and calling her a drag queen
To be fair, you were operating with the information reported by the news media. They got it wrong, not you.

Another example of why we have to be cautious about the reporting around a breaking news story.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

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RogueIce wrote: 2022-11-23 01:39pm
PainRack wrote: 2022-11-22 11:39pm Should we also mention that the Vet who stopped said shooting was arrested by the police?

To BE fair, that's what would happen in any such incident. I can't imagine a scenario where you walking out roughup and probably bloodied by you bashing a shooter down won't be mistaken as part of the perpetuator and arrested


But the PR image, especially given the US police support for Kyle Rittenhouse and other such armed groups is grotesques..
If he ended up bashing the shooter with the shooter's own gun, he may have been misidentified as being "the shooter" by people who saw him with a gun in his hand wailing on somebody. So, the police detain both until they figure out who the actual shooter was.

Granted if the shooter went in all "kitted out" that makes their misident a little less understandable, but I haven't heard how the shooter was dressed yet.
Given that the cops showed up, you had one guy in tactical gear (he was wearing "a tactical vest" according the reports I've seen) who was clearly a Sofa Team Six wannabe tough guy, and another guy on top of him with a gun in his hand who to all appearances was trying to beat the first guy to death (there were reports of Mr. Fierro screaming he was going to kill the guy) I can understand why the cops regarded Mr. Fierro as a possible threat and restrained him until they could sort things out a bit better. Remember that hindsight is 20/20 and the cops were walking into a scene of carnage with dead bodies, wounded people, probably a lot of other people running around, lots of yelling and screaming, and no clear idea just what the fuck was going on, just an initial impression of chaos, blood, and danger.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by PainRack »

https://www.cbs8.com/video/news/local/e ... b66f897717

My god.... The video interview with the shooter father is despicable.

He went oh, when I heard the news, I was terrified....... That he was GAY
.then I realised he was the shooter...


Told him violence always get results ..



My god.....
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

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PainRack wrote: 2022-11-23 09:36pm https://www.cbs8.com/video/news/local/e ... b66f897717

My god.... The video interview with the shooter father is despicable.

He went oh, when I heard the news, I was terrified....... That he was GAY
.then I realised he was the shooter...


Told him violence always get results ..



My god.....
I hope the families of the victims sue this asshole for raising his kid up like that.

It would be nice if he could be connected with, and therefore charged, with the shooting too.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

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PainRack wrote: 2022-11-23 09:36pmMy god.... The video interview with the shooter father is despicable.

He went oh, when I heard the news, I was terrified....... That he was GAY
.then I realised he was the shooter...

Told him violence always get results ..
I'm feeling a very small amount of pity for that boy. Although at some point you'd think he'd ask himself, "Do I really even want the approval of a guy who used to get punched in the face for a living, then tanked his moderately successful career in porn after discovering crystal meth?"
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Broomstick »

Solauren wrote: 2022-11-23 10:47pm I hope the families of the victims sue this asshole for raising his kid up like that.

It would be nice if he could be connected with, and therefore charged, with the shooting too.
You have the wrong parent.

If you managed to listen to the interview without puking, you'd know that ShooterMom took the kid and left ShooterDad in the early 00's because ShooterDad's life was such a shit-show. This man did not raise his kid.

If it's bad parenting you want to punish look at ShooterMom.

------------------------------------

Clearly, we're dealing with a broken person in the body of the shooter. I don't think this person ever had a chance to grow up whole. If intervention was appropriate it needed to occur years ago, and it didn't.

Unfortunately, we now have an adult who is a clear danger to other people, and thus should not be permitted to roam free. This person now needs to be removed from society for the safety of others.

There is just so much tragedy here.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Solauren »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-24 04:54am
Solauren wrote: 2022-11-23 10:47pm I hope the families of the victims sue this asshole for raising his kid up like that.

It would be nice if he could be connected with, and therefore charged, with the shooting too.
You have the wrong parent.

If you managed to listen to the interview without puking, you'd know that ShooterMom took the kid and left ShooterDad in the early 00's because ShooterDad's life was such a shit-show. This man did not raise his kid.

If it's bad parenting you want to punish look at ShooterMom.
The father is clearly homo-phobic. Odds are, he taught it to the shooter. (That's almost always a learned behavior.)
We also haven't heard from the mother or anyone else connected to the shooter yet. For all we know the father is lying is ass off about who raised the kid. (Or he had alot of visitation or whatever)


Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-24 04:54am Clearly, we're dealing with a broken person in the body of the shooter. I don't think this person ever had a chance to grow up whole. If intervention was appropriate it needed to occur years ago, and it didn't.
What little information we have a this time does support this.
Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-24 04:54am Unfortunately, we now have an adult who is a clear danger to other people, and thus should not be permitted to roam free. This person now needs to be removed from society for the safety of others.

There is just so much tragedy here.
I know lots of people from homes where one of the parents left because the other was a shit-show. I don't know any mass shooters.

That being said, I read online that there are now people saying the Shooter was 'non-binary'. (I have no qoutes for that, it's from 9gag. Yeah, I know, it's 9gag...)

Homophobic parent, Broken family, gender identification issues.

Not a good combo.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

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Solauren wrote: 2022-11-24 08:36am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-24 04:54am
Solauren wrote: 2022-11-23 10:47pm I hope the families of the victims sue this asshole for raising his kid up like that.

It would be nice if he could be connected with, and therefore charged, with the shooting too.
You have the wrong parent.

If you managed to listen to the interview without puking, you'd know that ShooterMom took the kid and left ShooterDad in the early 00's because ShooterDad's life was such a shit-show. This man did not raise his kid.

If it's bad parenting you want to punish look at ShooterMom.
The father is clearly homo-phobic. Odds are, he taught it to the shooter. (That's almost always a learned behavior.)
We also haven't heard from the mother or anyone else connected to the shooter yet. For all we know the father is lying is ass off about who raised the kid. (Or he had alot of visitation or whatever)
When the kid legally changed his name at the age of sixteen it was a matter of court record that he had not had any contact or communication with his father for years. So I suspect that the dad is not lying (about that).

Yeah, the dad is homophobic. Or whatever -phobic you would use to indicate "hates/fears anyone not cis heterosexual". Wouldn't at all be surprised if the mom is, too, although as you point out we don't know anything about her as she has not put herself out there in public like the dad has.
Solauren wrote: 2022-11-24 08:36am
Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-24 04:54am Unfortunately, we now have an adult who is a clear danger to other people, and thus should not be permitted to roam free. This person now needs to be removed from society for the safety of others.

There is just so much tragedy here.
I know lots of people from homes where one of the parents left because the other was a shit-show. I don't know any mass shooters.
I don't know any mass shooters, either, although a number of people I've known in the past went on to commit various crimes and are now in prison. Some came from "good" homes, some came from "broken" homes. Neither type of home is destiny, but if there's some sort of underlying problem having tumult in the home/family relationships does not help at all.
Solauren wrote: 2022-11-24 08:36amThat being said, I read online that there are now people saying the Shooter was 'non-binary'. (I have no qoutes for that, it's from 9gag. Yeah, I know, it's 9gag...)
The shooter's lawyers issued a statement to that effect, thus, most of the news media as well as the court system are using "they/them" pronouns for the shooter.
Solauren wrote: 2022-11-24 08:36amHomophobic parent, Broken family, gender identification issues.

Not a good combo.
No, not at all.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by PainRack »

The whole they/them sounds like a diversion, given it started after the shooting..

The court documents before the shooting for his name change and to protect himself from his father used he/him.


I mean, normally I would extend some empathy and go that just him confused and not yet out of the closet but given the SHEER fuckery of the right-wing, I'm not willing to do so.


The Jan 6 shaman did something similar, going his rights was abused because of vegan and he now regrets or was misled, but once he was let out and on a podcast, he's back spewing the same rheoteric and how Jan 6 was stolen.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by Broomstick »

PainRack wrote: 2022-11-24 09:01pm The whole they/them sounds like a diversion, given it started after the shooting..

The court documents before the shooting for his name change and to protect himself from his father used he/him.
Right. That was also six years ago, when the person was younger and probably living in a very homophobic household. More telling is that a current neighbor and friend said he had no knowledge of the shooter being non-binary.

Nonetheless, the lawyers have made a formal statement about this, for whatever reason.
PainRack wrote: 2022-11-24 09:01pmThe Jan 6 shaman did something similar, going his rights was abused because of vegan and he now regrets or was misled, but once he was let out and on a podcast, he's back spewing the same rheoteric and how Jan 6 was stolen.
Angeli's diet and his views are not necessarily connected (nitpick: not a "vegan" diet but an "organic" one). He satisfied the court that his dietary regimen was a long-held practice/belief and was accommodated. I don't see where diet and political views are connected. Heck, Hitler was famously a vegetarian.

Court can be a bit of a circus at times. We'll see what happens as time goes on.
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Re: Mass shooting at LGBT/Drag queen club stopped

Post by LadyTevar »

Broomstick wrote: 2022-11-25 03:11am
PainRack wrote: 2022-11-24 09:01pmThe Jan 6 shaman did something similar, going his rights was abused because of vegan and he now regrets or was misled, but once he was let out and on a podcast, he's back spewing the same rheoteric and how Jan 6 was stolen.
Angeli's diet and his views are not necessarily connected (nitpick: not a "vegan" diet but an "organic" one). He satisfied the court that his dietary regimen was a long-held practice/belief and was accommodated. I don't see where diet and political views are connected. Heck, Hitler was famously a vegetarian.

Court can be a bit of a circus at times. We'll see what happens as time goes on.
I believe a lot of hard-core Nazis are Vegetarians **Because** Hitler was. They're copy-catting, like a kid eating what their sports hero eats.

But time will tell if this is a lawyer's BS attempt at "poor kid is confused and angry" or not.
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