The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4134
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Jub »

I know elections up here aren't as impactful as the sort that happen to our south but Canada is going to the polls again today and I figure we could have a thread about it. As I post this it's still too early for any counting to have begun but the pre-election polls suggest a close race between the Liberals and the Conservatives with the NDP being the most popular of the parties not expected to form the government.

I'll drop some updates when I'm home from work and have cast my ballot.
User avatar
Tribble
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2903
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Tribble »

We did have another thread, but tbh for the most part nobody really cares since the result is likely going to be more or less the same.

Liberals are likely to at least maintain their minority, and even if the Conservatives win the most seats they are very unlikely to get a majority.

Which means either way the Liberals are likely going to stay in power with the NDP propping them up as needed.

Plus, let’s be honest, who cares about Canada? We’re just not that important in the grand scheme of things, being more or less a socialist US vassal state (by American standards anyways.)

Hell, a majority of Canadians are probably much more interested in US elections than our own.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4134
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Jub »

Yeah, this wasn't ever going to be a particularly fraught election. Trudeau played his hand well and called an election he was almost sure to win. He's going to be happy even if his play to form a majority government seems like it's going to fall short. I'm not happy with the status quo but realistically the NDP wasn't going to win so if they pick up the extra 5 seats they're projected to gain that's about as much as I could have asked for.
User avatar
Coop D'etat
Jedi Knight
Posts: 673
Joined: 2007-02-23 01:38pm
Location: UBC Unincorporated land

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Coop D'etat »

It restarts the clock in Parliament after things pretty much ground to a halt in January, so that's something of a government win. Its a strategic loss in that they played the call an early election card and can't do it again for about another 2 years.
User avatar
Tribble
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2903
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Tribble »

Coop D'etat wrote: 2021-09-20 11:47pm It restarts the clock in Parliament after things pretty much ground to a halt in January, so that's something of a government win. Its a strategic loss in that they played the call an early election card and can't do it again for about another 2 years.
Ya they were definitely missing the suspension of parliament and going on a massive spending spree with little / no oversight. Now that parliament is back and they have a minority again, it must really suck to have to work with other parties.

Another example of FPTP in action btw- the conservatives actually had more votes than the liberals yet got considerably fewer seats, while the PPC was locked out despite their vote total (not that I’m shedding any tears about the ladder).
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9177
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Solauren »

By comparison to the US, our elections and politics are dull.

Quick election campaigns, this elections adds sounded exactly like the last one, and the one before that, with the political parties switched. (Might even be the same add company and voice-over actors). And our political leadership is boring as hell. The most 'scandalous' thing to report was that 20 years ago, Justin Trudeau wore blackface. Also, our parties are not willing to 'go big' on the attack.

Compare that to the United States - longer election campaigns, and the Presidential election is more about the individual then the party.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4134
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Jub »

Aren't the boring elections exactly what the current system is designed to produce? We have laws that allow for extremely short official campaign windows and everybody respects them as you see precious little pre-campaigning before an election. When you only have a few weeks as opposed to what seems like a year as happens in the US there's not as much time for a campaign to develop and for heated debates to happen.
User avatar
Coop D'etat
Jedi Knight
Posts: 673
Joined: 2007-02-23 01:38pm
Location: UBC Unincorporated land

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Coop D'etat »

Boring is good, when things get exciting in politics, that's a sign of something has gone terribly wrong.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9177
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Solauren »

Exactly. Our campaigns are boring, and don't generate interest, because our system works.
The United States elections, on the other hand, seems like badly edited reality Tv sometimes
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4134
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Jub »

Agreed. I'll take boring and - mostly - functional over exciting but borked whenever possible.
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4134
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Jub »

Revisiting the FPTP thing. If we redistributed votes and gave each party their fraction of the popular vote as seats in parliament things would look like this:

Liberals: 158 -> 109 = -49 seats
Conservatives: 119 -> 115 = -4 seats
Bloc Québécois: 34 -> 26 = -8 seats
New Democratic Party: 25 -> 60 = +35 seats
Green: 2 -> 8 = +6 seats
People's Party: 0 -> 16 seats = +16 seats

I think we can see why this change will never be made. The most powerful parties don't stand to gain anything and the smaller parties combined can't put forth enough votes to force the change through. Of course, if things were run that way we'd see major changes to how parties campaign and there would also likely be a change to people's voting habits as well for whatever that's worth.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9177
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Solauren »

Going by percentage across the entire country is probably not acceptable to most people anyway.

After all, the various parts of the country can be very, very different, and have different needs then others. So, the reasons that one region voted in a NDP MP, might be the same reasons they voted him out in another region!
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Tribble
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2903
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Tribble »

Solauren wrote: 2021-09-22 08:20am Going by percentage across the entire country is probably not acceptable to most people anyway.

After all, the various parts of the country can be very, very different, and have different needs then others. So, the reasons that one region voted in a NDP MP, might be the same reasons they voted him out in another region!
Proportional representation has been more or less rejected country wide. Doesn’t mean one has to be a fan of FPTP though.

We’re fortunate in that there are consistently 3-4 major parties available to vote for as opposed to, say, Democrats vs Republicans. Harder (though not impossible) to become a successful extremist party when voters have multiple other options to choose from.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9177
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Solauren »

Tribble wrote: 2021-09-22 08:57am
Solauren wrote: 2021-09-22 08:20am Going by percentage across the entire country is probably not acceptable to most people anyway.

After all, the various parts of the country can be very, very different, and have different needs then others. So, the reasons that one region voted in a NDP MP, might be the same reasons they voted him out in another region!
Proportional representation has been more or less rejected country wide. Doesn’t mean one has to be a fan of FPTP though.

We’re fortunate in that there are consistently 3-4 major parties available to vote for as opposed to, say, Democrats vs Republicans. Harder (though not impossible) to become a successful extremist party when voters have multiple other options to choose from.
With proportional representation, the PPC would have received 16 seats.

A party, that, according to Wikipedia.
The party advocates for reduced immigration at 150,000 per year, scrapping the Multiculturalism Act, withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord, and ending supply management. In the 2021 federal election, the PPC also ran in opposition to COVID-19 restrictions and lockdown measures, vaccine passports, and compulsory vaccinations.

I'd say that's pretty extremist.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Coop D'etat
Jedi Knight
Posts: 673
Joined: 2007-02-23 01:38pm
Location: UBC Unincorporated land

Re: The 2021 Canadian Election Thread

Post by Coop D'etat »

Tribble wrote: 2021-09-22 08:57am
Solauren wrote: 2021-09-22 08:20am Going by percentage across the entire country is probably not acceptable to most people anyway.

After all, the various parts of the country can be very, very different, and have different needs then others. So, the reasons that one region voted in a NDP MP, might be the same reasons they voted him out in another region!
Proportional representation has been more or less rejected country wide. Doesn’t mean one has to be a fan of FPTP though.

We’re fortunate in that there are consistently 3-4 major parties available to vote for as opposed to, say, Democrats vs Republicans. Harder (though not impossible) to become a successful extremist party when voters have multiple other options to choose from.
Election reform remains the chief concern of political nerds, particularly those supporting the NDP because they're the party that stands to have tangible gains from a change to the system.

The actual electorate does not give a shit about that issue.
Post Reply