Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Flagg »

The Jester wrote: 2017-08-04 08:20am He'd need a green light from Congress, wouldn't he though? I know that hasn't been SOP for a couple decades now, but the optimist in me would think that North Korea wouldn't fall under the War on Terror blanket.
No. The War Powers Act (or War Powers Resolution of 1973, there have been past "War Powers Acts" but it's usage almost always refers to the 1973 resolution and was designed to curb Presidential war powers due to the fact that the Korean and Vietnam wars were essentially just the POTUS sending in troops and demanding congress support it and fund it, even though war was never declared (only Congress can declare war and they have not done so since WW2) which they almost always do because if you don't "support the troops" you're an evil Commie-Nazi and won't be reelected :lol:) allows the President to essentially order the military to do just about anything (unless it's on American soil, to an extent), including invading another country. The only limit on this is that the President can only do this without Congressional authority for 60 days and has to notify congress within 48 hours.

So President Slumlord can build up troops, equipment, and send a few Carrier Groups offshore of NK. And only when he orders them to invade (or try to, I have a feeling the White House Roach will rush through planning like he did when he wanted his Obama got Osama moment and sent in SEAL Team 6 on a botched raid in Yemen, getting one of them killed. Then just weeks later the bastard paraded the poor man's mother around, who was clearly still in shock and and deep mourning since she wept the entire time as he used her as a prop at a joint address to congress. But women are things, so no matter. :finger: ) and launch air strikes does the War Powers Act come into effect.

The other thing is, he can just order air strikes and probably get away with doing that for as long as he wants, since Clinton did that in Kosovo and nothing was done about it by the courts or Congress (maybe because they were too busy impeaching him for having his dick in a Jews mouth on Easter) so it essentially set a precedent.

And George Warcriminal Bush called NK a state sponsor of terrorism so it's actually pretty likely that the War Powers Act wouldn't apply.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The Jester wrote: 2017-08-04 08:20am He'd need a green light from Congress, wouldn't he though? I know that hasn't been SOP for a couple decades now, but the optimist in me would think that North Korea wouldn't fall under the War on Terror blanket.
No, he wouldn't. Not for the initial strikes, and at that point the ball is rolling, and depending on what he does and how North Korea/China responds, we may be completely fucked long before Congress ever gets a chance to weigh in.

Oh well. I hope it won't come to that. I'd like to think that their are enough people around him who realize, if only for self-interested reasons, how bad an idea that would be.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by FaxModem1 »

Business Insider
Trump's advisers spent 90 minutes schooling the president on globalism with maps and charts
Associated Press
Matthew Lee and Jonathan Lemire, Associated Press
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President Donald Trump receiving a briefing on terrorism. White House
NEW YORK — On a sweltering Washington summer day, President Donald Trump's motorcade pulled up to the Pentagon for a meeting largely billed as a briefing on the Afghanistan conflict and the fight against the Islamic State group.

There, in the windowless meeting room known as "The Tank," Trump was to be briefed on the state of America's longest-running war as he and his top aides plotted ways ahead. But, according to current and former US officials familiar with the meeting, it was, in reality, about much more.

Trump's national security team had become alarmed by the president's frequent questioning about the value of a robust American presence around the world. When briefed on the diplomatic, military, and intelligence posts, the new president would often cast doubt on the need for all the resources.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson organized the July 20 session to lay out the case for maintaining far-flung outposts — and to present it, using charts and maps, in a way the businessman-turned-politician would appreciate.

The session was, in effect, American Power 101, and the student was the man working the levers. It was part of the ongoing education of a president who arrived at the White House with no experience in the military or government and brought with him advisers deeply skeptical of what they labeled the "globalist" worldview.

In coordinated efforts and quiet conversations, some of Trump's aides have worked for months to counter that view, hoping the president can be persuaded to maintain — if not expand — the American footprint and influence abroad.

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Defense Secretary James Mattis meet with Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi and General Fang Fenghui, chief of the People's Liberation Army's Joint Staff Department prior to the U.S.-China Diplomatic and Security Dialogue at the State Department in Washington, U.S., June 21, 2017. REUTERS/Aaron P. Bernstein
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. Thomson Reuters

The result of the meeting and other similar entreaties may start to become clear this week, as Trump heads to New York for his first address to the United Nations General Assembly. The annual gathering of world leaders will open amid serious concerns about Trump's priorities, his support for the body he is addressing, and a series of spiraling global crises.

Trump, who seized as his mantra "America First" and at times unnerved world leaders with his unpredictability, is expected to offer warmth to the US's allies and warnings to its adversaries, particularly North Korea and Iran. The president's envoy to the global body suggested a presidential message that would focus on the basics of America's role in the world.

"I personally think he slaps the right people, he hugs the right people, and he comes out with the US being very strong in the end," said Nikki Haley, the US's ambassador to the UN.

In the weeks since the briefing in The Tank, Trump has split with Steve Bannon, his White House chief strategist and the engine of many of his nationalist, isolationist policies. He threatened war with North Korea and agreed to send more US troops to Afghanistan, abandoning his promise to withdraw quickly. Announcing the plan, Trump acknowledged the influence of his advisers.

"My original instinct was to pull out, and, historically, I like following my instincts," Trump said. "But all my life I've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office — in other words, when you're president of the United States. So I studied Afghanistan in great detail and from every conceivable angle."

Meeting in The Tank
On July 20, Trump, Bannon, then-White House chief of staff Reince Priebus, senior adviser Jared Kushner, and others stepped from the presidential motorcade and filed down a corridor adorned with formal portraits of former Joint Chiefs chairmen and into Room 2E924, identified by a small, unobtrusive plaque as "The Tank," to join Vice President Mike Pence, Mattis, and Tillerson, as well as a host of briefers.

Armed with charts, maps, and diagrams, those briefers spent the next roughly 90 minutes explaining to Trump the critical importance of forward worldwide deployments of US military, intelligence, and diplomatic assets, according to two current officials and one former official familiar with the meeting.

Mike Pence
Vice President Mike Pence at right, and Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, at far left. Yuri Gripas/Reuters

While the war in Afghanistan and against the Islamic State group in Syria and Iraq were major topics, the stationing of US personnel in Asia, Africa, Europe, and Latin America was also covered, said the officials who were not authorized to discuss details of the highly classified briefing and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The officials said the purpose was to answer one of Trump's most persistent questions of his national security aides: Why does the US government need "so many people" abroad? As such, it was a comprehensive look at military bases, embassies, and consulates, CIA stations and other intelligence posts, presented by experts sitting around a large conference table and in chairs lining the walls.

To be successful, Mattis and Tillerson decided they should use talking points and commentary with which they thought Trump would be most familiar: the role that the military, intelligence officers, and diplomats play in making the world safe for American businesses, like the Trump Organization, to operate and expand abroad.

American troops provide stability, diplomats push rule-of-law and anti-corruption measures, and the intelligence community provides context and analysis that drive the first two, the briefers explained, according to the officials.

The implications of American retrenchment in an age of increasing international competition were also discussed, the officials said.

One chart presented included two maps depicting the exponential growth of China's presence in Africa over the past two decades and its effect on US national security and private foreign investment, according to the officials.

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Trump leads a video teleconference monitoring tropical storm conditions in southeastern Texas on August 27. Official White House Photo by Shealah Craighead
Trump emerged and declared it a "very good meeting."

As a student, Trump is known to be alternatively eager and easily distracted.

The CIA chief, Mike Pompeo, has called Trump both an "avid" and a "voracious" consumer of intelligence. Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, speaking just a day after the Pentagon meeting, told an audience at the Aspen Security Forum that Trump interrupted briefings so often that he and his team frequently needed to circle back to their main points.

"What we found is someone who has not been in government, not been in the intelligence business, not having relationship to that, but is asking an awful lot of questions, and a lot of them were good questions," he said.

White House aides have readied a crash course for Trump as he prepares for the General Assembly, in part necessitated because the president has delayed some of his preparations, choosing instead to focus on the federal government's response to a pair of massive hurricanes and, to a lesser extent in recent days, his dealings with Democrats on immigration issues, according to the officials and advisers.
I am suddenly reminded of the scene from Game Change wherein Palin received a crash course on history over the past 50 years, and a lot of general knowledge turned out to be not that general.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by SpottedKitty »

Interesting article, but... can anyone see the obvious flaw in describing Trump as a "businessman-turned-politician"...? :wtf: :banghead:
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Flagg »

SpottedKitty wrote: 2017-09-18 06:02pm Interesting article, but... can anyone see the obvious flaw in describing Trump as a "businessman-turned-politician"...? :wtf: :banghead:
Not by US standards. Low, low standards.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

SpottedKitty wrote: 2017-09-18 06:02pm Interesting article, but... can anyone see the obvious flaw in describing Trump as a "businessman-turned-politician"...? :wtf: :banghead:
I'd call him more of a mobster-turned-wannabe dictator (who thankfully sucks at actually making himself a dictator).
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by FaxModem1 »

The Telegraph
Justin Trudeau tells Donald Trump he will block Boeing contracts over Bombardier tariff row

Rob Crilly
12 OCTOBER 2017 • 2:32AM
Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister, told President Donald Trump on Wednesday he would block his country’s armed forces from buying Boeing aircraft if the US presses ahead with plans to slap import tariffs of 300 percent on Bombardier aeroplanes.

The issue is threatening to ignite a trade war between the US, Canada and the UK, where the Canadian planemaker employs about 4,000 people in Belfast.

Mr Trudeau met the US President at the White House for talks on the North American Free Trade Agreement and said he raised the issue of Bombardier “directly”, outlining his opposition to US anti-dumping policy.

“I highlighted to the president how we disagree vehemently with Commerce’s decision to bring in countervailing and anti-dumping duties against Bombardier, that we feel this is not something that is warranted and quite frankly something that we look very negatively upon,” he said after the meeting.

“The attempts by Boeing to put tens of thousands of aerospace workers out of work across Canada is not something we look on positively.”

He added that the talks were “not easy”.

Two weeks ago the US Department of Commerce said Bombardier’s C-Series jets should be subject to a 219 per cent import duty, after Boeing complained its manufacturer received subsidies from Canada and the UK.

Theresa May, the Prime Minster, responded by saying the US was risking a trade war and warned Boeing that it was jeopardising future deals with the Ministry of Defence to supply aircraft such as its Apache helicopters.

Days later, the US ruled in favour of adding a further 80 per cent tariff after Boeing complained they were being sold at “absurdly low” prices.

Mr Trudeau added that he told Mr Trump he would prevent subsequent Canadian government orders from Boeing.

“I certainly mentioned that this was a block to us making any military procurements from Boeing,” he said.
Yes, let's get into a squabble with out closest allies over Boeing. I see this ending well. :roll:
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Saw in passing a headline to the effect that Canada is now looking into buying Australian fighters instead.

Keep making America great again, you orange shit head. We all know what you really meant was "Make American White Again".
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by mr friendly guy »

What? Canada wants to buy our old jets? Say what?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Elheru Aran »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2017-10-13 08:45am What? Canada wants to buy our old jets? Say what?
Well IIRC they don't really have much in the way of domestic military plane makers, so they gotta get them from somewhere...
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Patroklos »

Do any of you actually dispute the dumping finding against Canada or the recent similar one by the WTO regarding Bombardier and Brazil?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Tribble »

A literal case of Trump Dumping on Foreign Policy:

Fishy business: Trump and Abe dump fish food into precious koi pond
US president and Japanese host give fish a large feast on second day of former’s five-nation tour of Asia

Donald Trump and the Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe, have taken a forceful approach to feeding fish on the second day of the US president’s five-nation tour of Asia.
Standing beside a pond brimming with colourful koi in the Akasaka palace in Tokyo, the two men began spooning out fish food before appearing to lose patience and emptying their wooden containers with a shake.
The palace’s large collection of koi have been viewed by a succession of world leaders, including Margaret Thatcher. It is not known whether the former British prime minister was as aggressive as Trump when it came to feeding the pond’s inhabitants.
White House reporters, keen perhaps to pick up on a Trump gaffe, captured the moment when he upended his box on their smartphones and tweeted evidence of his questionable grasp of fish keeping. However, other footage made clear that Trump was merely following his host’s lead.

Abe is seen grinning, as is a woman in a kimono standing to one side. Next to her, Rex Tillerson – perhaps grateful for a moment of comic relief after he was named in the Paradise Papers – could not suppress a laugh, according to witnesses.
Some speculated that a poor palace employee would be dispatched to the scene to clean up the mess as soon as the two leaders disappeared inside.
Trump and Abe are not alone in misjudging the fishes’ appetite. According to the Aquascape website, overfeeding is the most common mistake made by keepers of koi.
“This can make your fish sick, and excessive amounts of waste that strains the limits of what can be biologically reduced, results in a decline of water quality,” the site says.
This article was amended on 6 November 2017 to make clear that Shinzo Abe also emptied the contents of his container into the pond.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -carp-pond


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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Broomstick »

The Emperor is not exactly ignorant when it comes to fish.

I wonder if a one-time overfeeding is really going to be that disastrous for the fish. If it even was an overfeeding - was the original intent to spoon the entire contents of those boxes into the pond? And I too suspect that afterward a palace employee might have been sent to clean up any excess.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Patroklos »

I've kept Koi ponds for most of my life along with various large fish tanks of other species (though not currently). I am not sure how many fish are in there but given the opulence of the grounds and the article describing the pond as "brimming" with koi the idea that the amount of food in both those small containers even approaches that pond's daily feeding levels let alone constitutes a dangerous over feeding is ludacris.

Keep in mind all the public parks with koi ponds that have coin pellet feed machines that are completely unmonitored. Somehow the denizens of those ponds have avoided instant consumption deaths over the years.


If you wand to worry about something it's that the fish don't eat the food and it causes an nitrate spike. But since that pond looks to be many thousands of gallons at least...
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yeah, I'm not a Trump fan, obviously, but I think the Guardian is taking this a bridge too far.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Yeah. I mean, Trump definitely is the kind of person brash and stupid enough to kill fish from overfeeding them in such a fashion, but this is a pretty moronic story. I mean, the feeding was entirely ceremonial, anyway, and Abe and the other local Japanese weren't visibly offended by the action (and were, in fact, gently amused).
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Thanas »

Twitter and facebook have received hundreds of millions of Dollars that can be traced back to Russian sate money.

(ignore the kushner link, it seems very tenous at best right now).
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Tribble »

Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2017-11-06 03:57pm Yeah. I mean, Trump definitely is the kind of person brash and stupid enough to kill fish from overfeeding them in such a fashion, but this is a pretty moronic story. I mean, the feeding was entirely ceremonial, anyway, and Abe and the other local Japanese weren't visibly offended by the action (and were, in fact, gently amused).
Of course, finding this stupid story is exactly why I had to post it in the first place. I just liked the above image too much not to share it with everyone :P
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Terralthra »

Abe emptied his food box first, in fact.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by AniThyng »

Terralthra wrote: 2017-11-06 07:36pm Abe emptied his food box first, in fact.
Well he doesn't speak for all Japanese! Just because he did it doesn't mean it's ok! /s ;)

Edit: I mean seriously, did any actual Japanese people get offended or was it mostly non jp Twitter users getting offended on their and the Koi's behalf?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Terralthra »

As far as I can tell, it was almost entirely the wing of Twitter that waits for Trump to do something embarrassing leaping into action. In fairness to that wing, he does such things frequently, and they are rarely wrong.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by LaCroix »

I'm pretty sure that Abe has been given info on the average attention span of Trump, and is internally counting down the seconds on everything they do.
Feeding fish by the spoonfull is something supposed to be medidative, which meens that Trump gets bored after a few seconds., so he deliberatly did something goofy, knowing Trump would join him, they'd have a laugh, and could go on to the next shiny thing on the list.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by mr friendly guy »

Remember how Trump says China was raping the US on trade? Turns out he has now done a back flip and says its the US fault.
https://www.ft.com/content/eb88fd24-c50 ... 86f39ef675


YESTERDAY Demetri Sevastopulo and Tom Mitchell in Beijing 79 comments

Donald Trump blamed his predecessors for the US’s widening trade deficit with China, praising Xi Jinping and telling an audience in Beijing he did not “blame” Chinese leaders for “taking advantage” of Washington.

In a striking change of tone from the US president, who portrayed China as an economic bogeyman throughout last year’s election campaign, Mr Trump appeared at pains to rekindle the bonhomie that characterised the leaders’ first meeting at his Florida compound in April, a tenor that quickly deteriorated over North Korea.
And from CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/08/polit ... index.html
"I don't blame China," Trump said during remarks to business leaders inside the Great Hall of the People. "After all, who can blame a country for being able to take advantage of another country for benefit of their citizens? I give China great credit."
CNN has the video of Trump speaking where he blames past US administrations for the trade imbalance.

I wonder how the US blame China crowd are going to react?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Rationalization, no doubt. Massive amounts of rationalization.

Because for most Trump supporters, its not really about any issue or policy. Not really. Oh, they may have legitimate grievances or concerns, but by and large, they are thoroughly convinced that those problems are the fault of (insert minority group here).

It doesn't matter how often he lies or contradicts himself. Just like it doesn't matter how much he fucks up. Because they don't care about that. They cared about breaking "the establishment" (however they define such a nebulous term to not include a hereditarily rich white man), and/or about having a white male strong man in charge. That's it.

Those are the only promises he ever has to deliver on to his base, and he can deliver on them simply by being Donald Trump.

This is why, in my opinion, any attempt to win over the Trump base is largely pointless. Anyone who's still sticking with him now is probably going to continue to do so, right up to concentration camps or him actually shooting someone on Fifth Avenue.

Turnout from the Left and Centre is all that matters.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Simon_Jester »

I still think it desirable to gradually worry away a few of the Trump supporters at a time. If we're lucky and public opinion evolves well, in 20-30 years most of the Trump supporters who are still alive may be mentally retconning that. And I'd call that a win.
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