Marvel is pathetically sexist.

[xthetenth]

Is that supposed to be Rogue in the green suit with the broken wrist and spine?

Seriously? They might have drawn her hand a little long, but are you under the impression that a person's spine is an immobile rod? Just shifting your weight from one leg to the other will result in your spine bending from side to side.

It will result in your spine arching, but not like that image. Seriously, go ask a woman to tilt her hips to the side and put a hand on the up-tilted hip. See what the spine actually does.

I think you're confusing not an anatomy textbook with being depressingly misogynistic, or did we just slide from a discussion of misogyny in comics to an art critique?

Then again I just tried to do that pose and it wasn't all that uncomfortable to get a similar amount of angle on my hips and I'm a guy. So I'm not seeing that pose being bone-breakingly unrealistic. Actually more of the discomfort was in the positioning of the hand and the angle of the hip with the leg (but that's probably from being a guy who puts a lot of wear on those muscles.)

[Terralthra]

I'm willing to bet your shoulder were tilted at the same angle relative to the floor, in the opposite direction. It's what happens when you tilt the hips. Look at Michelangelo's "David" for an example.



Look back at the original image. Her hips are tilted, but her shoulders are perfectly level with the floor. Conclusion: scoliosis, or she's standing in a deliberately uncomfortable and awkward position. Plus, the hand. Like, what the fuck. Her wrist is on the back side of her hip. Try putting your wrist there. See how far your fingers reach. Hers reach nearly to her midline.

[Questor]

Terralthra, I just want to be clear, your issue with what looks like the most female friendly comic book cover ever made is that the angle of the shoulders is wrong? Can you please show me an x-ray to prove that we're not seeing some weird effect from the jacket she's wearing?

EDIT: Interestingly enough, from the angle formed by the bottoms of her breasts, I would say that her shoulders ARE angled - at least slightly - unless you are going to propose that they are drawing Rogue with assets that are that asymmetrical, despite there being pretty good symmetry on every other figure.

[xthetenth]

Everything's sore, but I didn't have much problem with the shoulders, and when I was putting weight on my resting hand, near level shoulders felt more natural than the shoulder tilt.

Anyway, and to the more important point, is this a minor art issue that seems to be a slight accident in posing or a deliberate hideous caricature of anatomy with very serious worrying portrayal issues? Because depressingly enough, if it's the former and not the latter, this is a very good departure from the norm in comics.

It seems like you're missing the unstated second half of complaints about "her ____ is broken", which is "in order to create a sexualized caricature of the female body because that is a near inextricable part of being female in comics."

[Terralthra]

Oh, no, that's hardly my only problem. Like I said, there's Rogue's rubber wrist, plus the fact that the artist apparently isn't quite sure how to draw feet, given that out of six women on the cover, you can see exactly 2.5 feet. Storm's boob-window is ridiculous, and her neck is...well, I suppose they're going for the neck-ring stretching? I'm still trying to figure out how exactly Psylocke's left wrist works.

[Simon_Jester]

OK. So, why don't we separate the "bad artist" complaints from the "sexism" ones?

The boob window is sexism, the rest is bad art, right?

[Darth Lucifer]

Well as long as it doesn't result in women imitating the Mohawk look!

Oh shit, are they bringing back Storm's "Dream Warrior" look from the 80's?

[Questor]

I'd still like to know if he thinks Rogue's asymmetrical or just wearing a weird jacket, myself. The wrist issue's legit, but I'm not sure of the point of the foot comment, and while Storm is clearly being depicted with a long neck, it does not appear to be anywhere near "ring stretching" levels.

As for the whole "boob window" thing, until someone can get celebrities to stop wearing the hideous things, they'll keep showing up. In this case, though, it looks less like a "boob window" than it does unusual sleeve/collar construction.

I'm not sure how any of that ties in to sexism though. Liefeld and traditional comic book anatomy, I really don't have an issue drawing that line. That cover though? To ascribe the bad art to sexism seems a bit too far.

[mr friendly guy]

Well as long as it doesn't result in women imitating the Mohawk look!

I thought Storm had the Mohawk look in the 1980s, so Marvel decided to bring back that look.

[Korto]

Christ, haven't read marvel comics since they got rid of the original Excalibur team...
Looks like Jubilee..., is that Kitty Pryde at the back there? Storm is obvious, I don't like her mohawk, but I accept her right to wear it... Someone said Psylocke? Would that be her with the sword? And the blonde in green is Rogue? When did she become a blonde?
So that leaves one question. Who's the red-head?

[Grumman]

Looks like the other woman is Rachel Grey from Excalibur. And Rogue's always had the white streak in her hair, it's just more prominent than, for example, in the films.

[Korto]

That's Rachel? Looks different than how I remember her, but time, different artists...
And I remember Rogue had a white streak in (I think) dark coppery red hair, but not a head of blonde with (looking closely at the shadows) red extensions. Well, again, different artists.

[Lusankya]

Terralthra, I just want to be clear, your issue with what looks like the most female friendly comic book cover ever made is that the angle of the shoulders is wrong? Can you please show me an x-ray to prove that we're not seeing some weird effect from the jacket she's wearing?

No, I'm pretty sure the most female-friendly comic book covers are the new Captain Marvel ones. They look a bit retro, but there hasn't been a one yet where she doesn't look like she's ready to punch someone's face in.



The Journey Into Mystery comics treat Sif pretty well too, despite her still having the very short shorts. At least, I think they do... it's hard to tell beneath the pile of gore that Sif tends to cover things with.

And I remember Rogue had a white streak in (I think) dark coppery red hair, but not a head of blonde with (looking closely at the shadows) red extensions. Well, again, different artists.

I'm pretty sure that's just Rogue having an absolutely enormous fringe.

[Terralthra]

I'd still like to know if he thinks Rogue's asymmetrical or just wearing a weird jacket, myself. The wrist issue's legit, but I'm not sure of the point of the foot comment, and while Storm is clearly being depicted with a long neck, it does not appear to be anywhere near "ring stretching" levels.

To be frank, I'm pretty sure that the cover artist wanted to get the contrapposto hip tilt for a sexy look, and just didn't carry it through the rest of the figure properly. The breasts being tilted but not the shoulders is far from the most egregious thing done to breasts in comic book covers, granted. A weird jacket that allows a straight shoulder line when the collar girdle is tilted....um, ok? I guess it could happen, but why wear it?

Wrist issues would be more correct, since Psylocke's wrist is broken, too.

The point of the foot comment is that women in comics are typically drawn with calf extension and height-proportions such that the only way to explain it is that they're wearing 4"-6" high heels to their fights. Since it is patently retarded to wear stiletto heels to any kind of thing where one might have to do anything besides walk daintily, comic book artists have gotten quite good at hiding the feet so they can get away with drawing the calves as if they're wearing stilettos, without admitting it by actually drawing the 6" heels they'd have to wear.

As for the whole "boob window" thing, until someone can get celebrities to stop wearing the hideous things, they'll keep showing up. In this case, though, it looks less like a "boob window" than it does unusual sleeve/collar construction.

What a celebrity wears to the Oscars and what superheroines wear to their fights with supervillains should not be overly related. That you relate celebrity fashion outfits to things worn by women while fighting super-crime is sadly indicative.

I'm not sure how any of that ties in to sexism though. Liefeld and traditional comic book anatomy, I really don't have an issue drawing that line. That cover though? To ascribe the bad art to sexism seems a bit too far.

I don't believe I said that that cover was ridiculously sexist. I criticized Rogue's pose, as well as some other things, but I didn't say misogyny was the cause.

[Havok]

Dude, fucking seriously?
A: It's not an anatomy class. The art is fine.
B: Women show off their boobs.
C: Quit being a nit picking douche bag.

[Havok]

And honestly, looking at the shirts, it seems more like they made the shirt for nerd girls that think the male Avengers are hot. But hey, I don't think girls are idiots or need saving and can think guys are hot and may want a shirt about it.

[Terralthra]

Dude, fucking seriously?
A: It's not an anatomy class. The art is fine.
B: Women show off their boobs.
C: Quit being a nit picking douche bag.

You know, I can have a different opinion than you, and neither of us are necessarily right or wrong (although "the art is fine" when the anatomy of at least two people in the image would require broken bones amuses me). What makes someone a douchebag is insisting that they're right and the other people's opinions are wrong, and they should just shut up. Oh, wait. That's you.

Anyway, look, there's women with skintight clothing and gratuitous cleavage, so of course, from some people's perspectives, "the art is fine." I just don't get why "wrist impossibly distorted" is just the trade-off we have to make. Can't we have skintight clothing, boob windows, AND a basic understanding of like, a skeleton? You don't have to be in anatomy class to look at a drawing and say "wow, where are all their feet? And what's wrong with their wrists?"

[weemadando]

Saw this playing the Injustice demo last night:
https://www.injustice.com/sites/default ... ll_0_0.png

Yeah, no problems there.

[The Yosemite Bear]

lets see, Kitty Pryde, vampire jubiliee, Storm, Psylock, Banshee II, and I think the white queen with more clothes than I've ever seen her in...

as the greensuited woman has white hair, and last time I checked ms Frost had a full head of white hair, and Rogue only has a small streak of white.

[Terralthra]

That is...not the White Queen (who is blonde, not white hair). That's Rogue. The amount of red/white in her hair varies based on the artist. Plus, being fully covered is kinda Rogue's thing.

[The Yosemite Bear]

True, though I'm pretty sure that the red head has to be Syrin/Banshee II, not too many redheads in the X-men lineup BansheeII, Jean Grey, & Wolfsbane. how many ex ninjas does that make there?

[madd0ct0r]

A weird jacket that allows a straight shoulder line when the collar girdle is tilted....um, ok? I guess it could happen, but why wear it?

under fabric armor?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Rogue tends to not want any unintended physical contact because of her powers. Banshee wears a flying squirrel suit for the same reason her late father did. (so she can bounce her sonic vibrations off the ground and use the coustume to fly), Jubilee well lost her mutant abilities but is now a blood drinking vampire, no statement on wither or not she sparkles....