Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Broomstick »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:It's incredible how quickly it is becoming politically damaging for any politician with even a remotely moderate constituency to oppose gay marriage, especially given how recently the opposite was true. Did majority views on civil rights flip this quickly in the 60's, or is this unprecedented?
I'm trying to recall (I was quite young at the time) but past a certain point, yes, more or less. Not that everyone woke up one morning with a 180 turn in opinion, but even people who didn't particularly like blacks (or "negros", which was the acceptable term back then however it is regarded now) started to acknowledge that they shouldn't be physically beaten for daring to sit at a lunch counter or voting in an election, or blown up for attending church, or threatened with death for going to school.

We should keep in mind that there will continue to be people who are frothing homophobes, not just this generation but into the next and the one following just as we still have white supremacists of one stripe or another. Prejudice doesn't go away overnight. The legal battles are important, vital even, but the work won't be over. I expect that we'll see opponents start to fight back as the Roe v. Wade opponents have, and as those who want racial apartheid in this country have.

Assuming DoMA is overturned or something similar a lot of straights will still regard gay sex as "icky", still not want to share a shower room with one, and still be uncomfortable around those they know to be gay. What will change are laws entrenching some forms of discrimination, that's all. There will still be a lot of social/cultural/societal crap still around.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Simon_Jester »

Push back a la the pro-life movement isn't going to get as far with gay rights issues as with abortion. Opponents to abortion have the huge advantage of being able to point to someone who is harmed by the status quo (huge numbers of fetuses*), and it's harder to make a simple ** argument about why there are people who need abortion rights to remain in place.

With gay rights, you're screwing over a specific class of people by keeping those rights away. And there's no poster child for "MY LIFE WAS DESTROYED BY GAY RIGHTS!" for the opposition to rally around.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Dalton »

Senator Mark Kirk (R-IL) just came out in favor of gay marriage, making him the 50th Senator to do so. With Biden's tiebreaker, a gay marriage bill can now pass the Senate.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

It has been very VERY amusing watching the Right wing blog-o-sphear melt down even more as it starts to seem more and more likely that Gay Marriage will become a fact.
The Hysteria is reaching truely Hysterical levels. At any moment we should be expecting God to smite us, smite the gays, or the ever popular "Punish America"
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by SystemError »

The second sitting Republican Senator - mine - endorses gay marriage. And his actual endorsement is pretty well-written.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t2
Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois, a socially moderate Republican, announced on Tuesday his support for same-sex marriage, becoming the second Republican in the chamber to support it.

"Same-sex couples should have the right to civil marriage," he wrote in a statement. "Our time on this earth is limited, I know that better than most. Life comes down to who you love and who loves you back - government has no place in the middle."

Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio became the first Republican in the U.S. Senate to endorse same-sex marriage. He announced last month that he was swayed on the issue by his son, who told his family he was gay.

Six of the 55 Democratic senators have not endorsed same-sex marriage. Sen. Tom Carper, D-Delaware, announced his support earlier on Tuesday.

The Supreme Court heard oral arguments last week in two cases on the issue, including a challenge to the federal Defense of Marriage Act that defines marriage as between a man and a woman.

Kirk, 53, returned to the Senate in January after spending a year in recovery from a stroke.

"When I climbed the Capitol steps in January, I promised myself that I would return to the Senate with an open mind and greater respect for others," he said in Tuesday's statement.

He served in the U.S. House from 2000 to 2010, where he voted twice against constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage.

Kirk holds the Senate seat which President Barack Obama vacated in 2008.
Tom Carper of Delaware was one of the last Democratic holdouts.

Was.
As our society has changed and evolved, so too has the public's opinion on gay marriage – and so has mine. I pray every day for God to grant me the wisdom to do what is right. Through my prayers and conversations with my family and countless friends and Delawareans, I've been reminded of the power of one of my core values: the Golden Rule. It calls on us to treat others as we want to be treated. That means, to me, that all Americans ultimately should be free to marry the people they love and intend to share their lives with, regardless of their sexual orientation, and that's why today, after a great deal of soul searching, I'm endorsing marriage equality.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Scrib »

Not the Senate but anyone seen Bill O'Reilly's strange turn around? He just chewed out Laura Ingraham.Limbaugh had his own morose semi-capitulation. Shit is getting more and more bizarre... So I take it that at least FOX is done with this battle?

I've been in the hating-FOX-for-gay-marriage business for so long I'm not sure what to do now.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

And here is the 51st vote.
Bill Nelson reverses opposition to gay marriage

Florida Sen. Bill Nelson reversed his opposition to gay marriage on Thursday, joining a swell of moderate Democrats to do so recently as public support for gay marriage has grown.

In a statement to the Tampa Bay Times editorial board, Nelson wrote:

"It is generally accepted in American law and U.S. society today '... that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.' I believe that. The civil rights and responsibilities for one must pertain to all.

"Thus, to discriminate against one class and not another is wrong for me.

"If we are endowed by our Creator with rights, then why shouldn't those be attainable by Gays and Lesbians?

"Simply put, if The Lord made homosexuals as well as heterosexuals, why should I discriminate against their civil marriage? I shouldn't, and I won't.

"So I will add my name to the petition of senators asking the Supreme Court to declare the law that prohibits gay marriage unconstitutional."

With Nelson's reversal, only six Senate Democrats remain opposed to gay marriage. The Democrats who remain opposed to same-sex marriage are Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Mary Landrieu of Lousiana, Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Mark Pryor of Arkansas.

A handful of Republicans, including Ohio Sen. Rob Portman, have also changed their stance

Nelson came to his decision Thursday after many conversations with constituents, clergy and others, said his spokesman, Dan McLaughlin. The U.S. Supreme Court also just heard two landmark cases on the issue.

"People say, 'Why now?' " McLaughlin said. "Well it's because the cases that went before the Supreme Court and the public debate that has ensued. During this discourse, Sen. Nelson has heard from a lot of constituents. The way he goes about his job is to always treat people with civility and respect and hear what they have to say."

McLaughlin said that Nelson, 70, was not influenced by other senators who have changed their mind. Nelson long held firm to the belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman only.

Last week in Tallahassee he told reporters: "I've always stood up for the civil rights of all people, including civil unions. My personal preference is that marriage is between a man and a woman."

A national poll released Thursday by Quinnipiac University showed 50 percent of American voters favor same-sex marriage, a high-water mark. Voters favored same-sex marriage 50-41 percent, compared to 47-43 percent in early March. In July 2008, voters opposed same-sex unions 55-36 percent.
It's so strange. It felt like it was just yesterday when the entire country was overwhelming anti-gay.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Dalton »

Once the dominos start falling, there's no stopping them. Once they realized that supporting marriage equality didn't mean the end of the world (or their political careers) they all ran as fast as possible to the Rainbow Lectern. That political cartoon that Pinto posted was spot-on accurate.

The ball is rolling, folks, just like I said it would. Things are moving. It's only a matter of time now, and not even the Evangelicals can stand in the way.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Flagg »

I. Cannot. Stand. Bill Nelson. I voted for him but I wish he'd stayed in space, fucking blue dog DINO dipshit. Still, kudos to joining the human race.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Dalton »

Add Donnelly and Heitkamp.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:It has been very VERY amusing watching the Right wing blog- fun.o-sphear melt down even more as it starts to seem more and more likely that Gay Marriage will become a fact.
The Hysteria is reaching truely Hysterical levels. At any moment we should be expecting God to smite us, smite the gays, or the ever popular "Punish America"
Links? Reading that does sound pretty fun.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Dominus Atheos wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:It has been very VERY amusing watching the Right wing blog- fun.o-sphear melt down even more as it starts to seem more and more likely that Gay Marriage will become a fact.
The Hysteria is reaching truely Hysterical levels. At any moment we should be expecting God to smite us, smite the gays, or the ever popular "Punish America"
Links? Reading that does sound pretty fun.
Find any "Columnist" on townhall.com who is talking about gay marriage and the comments will be a gold mine. The following three I have been reading that have several good ones:
Students Want Anti-Gay Priest Removed from University
Winning after losing on gay marriage
Gay activists double standard

some of the gems I have found form them...
Terms like “bigot” “hater” and “homophobe” are nothing more than an effort of the left to shut down an argument that is already lost because their views have no substance. The truth of the matter is most people are not bigots, they don't hate and they are not scared of anyone. They just feel that the states and the people have the constitutional right to define what legally constitutes a marriage because it was not delegated to the feds in accordance with the 10th Amendment. The states and the people have largely settled this issue already at the level it was originally intended to be done. How about this. Stop linking benefits to marriage. The single heterosexuals would appreciate it as well.
As a Christian I can't participate in or join a party that supports gay marriage or abortion. You can't serve two masters. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I fear God's disapproval more than I fear any man. Let God be true and every man a liar. You and fellow Republicans will have to soldier on without me working for the republican party in the next election. I'll still vote, but I won't join or work for the party if they change their platform.

I'll keep praying for our country that is morally adrift.
Notice how the homosexuals despise the God who made them. They also despise themselves. And of course, they despise Christians, conservatives, and pro-lifers. They despise happily married couples. They despise the Word of God. They despise the massive evidence of the damage their perverse lifestyle causes society, families, and their own souls.

In short, homosexuals hate. And THAT'S why they employ the age old technique of projection so often, by accusing others of the very thing they do from morning till night.
It is really a goldmine.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by SystemError »

Orrin Hatch has embraced gay civil unions.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/5 ... h.html.csp

This is probably bigger than any Democrat coming out for gay marriage, considering that Hatch is a devout Mormon and was stridently against any kind of legal recognition for decades.
"I’ll say this, I do believe this could be solved greatly by a civil-union law that would give gay people the same rights as married people," said Hatch, who mentioned hospital visitations and tax benefits.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Didn't think this deserved it's own thread, but thought it worth posting if just for the sheer amount of brain exploding Irony involved in what follows... Religious Freedom & ‘Gay Marriage’ Cannot Coexist
Therefore pride is their necklace; they clothe themselves with violence. – Psalm 73:6

“Gay pride” necessitates anti-Christian hate. It must. “Gay marriage” and other “sexual orientation”-based laws do violence to freedom and truth. They are the hammer with which the postmodern left intends to bludgeon bloody religious liberty and the Judeo-Christian sexual ethic.

According to the unequivocal moral precepts of the Judeo-Christian tradition – explicit throughout both the Old and New Testaments – homosexual behavior is a sin. Sin is evil. Homosexual behavior is the central, defining characteristic of so-called “gay marriage.” Therefore, “gay marriage” is evil. Christians are obligated to avoid sin – to “do no evil.”

I know; it’s not popular to speak such simple truths in today’s politically correct world. But I’m not out to win a popularity contest.

Neither is Ms. Barronelle Stutzman. Ms. Stutzman is the Christian owner-operator of Arlene’s Flowers in Richland, Wash. She is, by all accounts, a lovely, sweet, elderly woman who both employs and regularly serves open practitioners of the homosexual lifestyle. Sadly, she has become the latest victim in a fast-growing string of secularist attacks against Christians and other morally minded people. If “same-sex marriage” becomes the law of the land, I can assure you that we will soon see a virtual explosion in the same kind of anti-Christian persecution Ms. Stutzman now suffers.

Recently, one of Ms. Stutzman’s frequent homosexual customers requested that she provide flower arrangements for his same-sex “wedding.” She politely declined, saying that her Christian conscience and “relationship with Jesus Christ” prevented her from any involvement with counter-Christian “same-sex marriage.” She was, quite simply, a Christian being Christian. The two hugged and parted ways.

Unfortunately, in our ever-”progressive” culture, being Christian has fast become a most dangerous proposition. As each homofascist demand is checked from liberals’ sin-centric wish list, it only gets worse.

As a result of her constitutionally guaranteed religious free exercise, Washington State’s newly elected Attorney General Bob Ferguson filed charges against Ms. Stutzman, seeking both a monetary judgment and an injunction to physically force her to violate her Christian conscience. He would compel her to either lend her artistic expression in support of counterfeit “gay marriage” – something Christianity steadfastly recognizes as mortal sin – or face further charges.

Speaking of steadfast, to her credit, Ms. Stutzman has stood firm. She has refused to cave under Ferguson’s tyrannical torment. Ferguson, on the other hand, has revealed himself a creep and a coward – a “progressive” bully who apparently gets off on abusing elderly women. He’s a disgrace to Washington State and should be thrown out of office and disbarred.

Still, this type of government persecution must be expected. Ferguson is a liberal. The liberal viewpoint is that any viewpoint, save the liberal viewpoint, must be criminalized and prosecuted.

Like many of us, Joseph Backholm, with the Family Policy Institute of Washington, has long warned about the consequences of radically deconstructing the institution of natural marriage. “Now that the law says marriage is genderless,” he recently wrote of Ms. Stutzman’s ongoing abuse, “those who think otherwise [must] … conform or be punished. … Now liberals believe they are legally entitled to someone else’s labor.”

To homosexuals I say this: Yes, you are equal in God’s eyes. You are loved. These things are true, not because of your homosexual lifestyle, but, rather, they are true in spite of it.

Most homosexuals know intuitively, I think, that their lifestyle is unnatural and immoral and that the oxymoronic notion of “same-sex marriage” is a silly farce. Thus, they must force others to affirm both their self-destructive lifestyle and their mock “marriages” under penalty of law. They must physically compel everyone to engage their “emperor’s new clothes” delusion, so they can feel better about bad behavior.

Well, my friend, making everyone else “call evil good and good evil” won’t fill that dark void in your soul. Only repentance and redemption through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can do that.

When we give deviant sexual conduct preferred status in law, Christian morality becomes illegal. If you think government-recognized “gay marriage” is harmless to society, you’re playing the fool. It places the Christian sexual ethic and free exercise of religion in direct conflict with law. It’s my sense that many liberty-minded people are finally coming awake to this disturbing reality.

Although we all sin, Christians are commanded to neither support nor engage in evil. Hence, Christians – true Christians – cannot engage in nor condone the unrepentant practice of homosexual behavior. Neither can we support sin-centric “gay marriage.”

This rudimentary equation is built upon the natural laws of moral physics. Christianity is magnetically charged truth. Homosexual behavior is a magnetically charged lie – a spiritual and biological falsehood. Christianity and homosexual sin are as north to south. Polar opposites cannot occupy the same position in time and space. They repel one another. It’s physically, spiritually and legally impossible for religious freedom and preferred legal status for sexual sin to coexist in harmony. Ms. Stutzman’s persecution is just the latest example of this timeless reality.

Why are Christians so afraid to call sin sin? It’s time for invertebrate believers to grow a backbone. Truth, in love, is the balance. Yes, the world will hate you, because it first hated Christ. So what? Count it a blessing – even unto death.

Here’s my recommendation: When those who are lost to the world hate on you, laugh at them. Then cry for them. Then pray for them. Follow Christ’s example and ask, as did He, that God “forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Then get up, dust yourself off and get back in the fight.

Albert Einstein once said, “Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.”

He was right.

Barronelle Stutzman followed this advice and – though she currently faces government persecution for her choice – she has also become an accidental hero. Pray for her. I know God will surely bless her faithfulness.

Still, know this: If you are a Christian in today’s America, you too will almost certainly find yourself with a similar decision to make. When man’s law violates God’s law, you will have to choose which to obey. Choosing God can mean persecution.

I’ve made my choice.

How will you choose?
The amount of Irony, self projection and open bigotry both burns and makes me laugh my ass off.
It is hard to tell some times that such people are real and not simply charcuteries.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by loomer »

I think the word might be caricatures, Crossroads. Charcuterie is the delicious school of making hams, confit, sausage, and smoked goods.
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Re: Gay marriage on the move in the U.S. Senate

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Yes well that is what happens when I forget to turn 'Auto correct' off -_-
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