Meanwhile...back in Cote d'Iviore

[Shroom Man 777]

What would you do, Shroomy, if you were given power over the US and sincerely wanted to help people in this situation? I'm curious.

I don't know. But if I genuinely wanted to help people, I wouldn't be so quick to make deals with other dictators that end up also unhelping people elsewhere. That's something far easier to do for someone who is out to serve self interest, rather than someone who sincerely wants to help people.

Why? You're curious?

Because the situation there in the Middle East (and Africa), and those Arab League nations the USA is dealing with and placating with by bashing Bahrain, has been caused by decades of people insincerely wanting to 'help' non-people in this situation by acting entirely in their own interests rather than Thanas' morality. This is another continuation of that cycle.

"Sincerely wanting to help people" ( ) is an excellent cover story if I wanted to go blow up Daffy for my own self-interests, without giving a fuck about the Saudis killing Bahrainians (because that actually serves my interests too, not Thanas' morality). I mean, it's a lie that's actually true - America is actually really helping people in Libya (maybe, or at least that's what it really looks like in CNN) - rather than some bullshit about WMDs. This, at least, gives people the illusion of America's sincere wanting to help people, so they won't bitch and blubber like a bunch of liberal traitors who don't support BMD or ABM or FCCs. Which is bloody genius of Hillery and Zerobamasamabinladenaramadanamcnamara.

Turns out Barry is actually a better liar than Shrubya, lolwhoknewamiright. Barry of Mass Deception. Kenyan American Barry Misleading.

Anyway, the point is moot. Nobody on Earth sincerely wants to help those people. Nobody who actually matters anyway. It's not in their self-interest to sincerely want to help those people. Insincerely wanting to help those people, in order to gain something while at the very same time doing the opposite thing to other people elsewhere, is in their self-interest.

Not in Thanas morality though.

[Prannon]

Meanwhile...back in On-Topic, Gbagbo is said to be in the basement of his residence with his family, and negotiations are taking place over his departure. I sincerely hope this doesn't end with him conveniently dead.

Ivory Coast: Besieged Gbagbo 'in basement' of residence

Ivory Coast's defiant President Laurent Gbagbo is sheltering with his family in the basement bunker of his residence in the main city, Abidjan.

Troops loyal to Mr Gbagbo's rival, UN-recognised President Alassane Ouattara, say they have surrounded the compound.

Mr Gbagbo's foreign minister, Alcide Djedje, says there is now a ceasefire, but this is not confirmed by pro-Ouattara forces or the UN.

The UN says Mr Gbagbo's military and civilian advisers are leaving him.

Negotiations over departure?

"We are witnessing new developments on the political front in Abidjan," said the UN mission in Ivory Coast (Unoci) in a statement.

"Mr Gbagbo's closest advisers, both military and civilian, are leaving him while, with a handful of persons, he is known to have retreated to the basement bunker of the presidential residence."

Mr Gbagbo has refused to leave office even though the Ivorian election commission declared him the loser of November's run-off vote, and the UN certified the result.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe has said Mr Gbagbo is in negotiations over his departure.

Asked if he knew of such negotiations, Mr Juppe said: "We are aware."

He added: "If there are possibilities to see him leave power, then we are ready."

Mr Gbagbo's army chief, Gen Philippe Mangou, told the AFP news agency his troops had stopped fighting.

"Following the bombardment by the French forces on some of our positions and certain strategic points in the city of Abidjan, we have ourselves stopped fighting and have asked the general commanding Onuci for a ceasefire," Gen Mangou said.

Gen Mangou deserted last week, but was said to have returned to the fold on Monday after an apparent change of heart.

Mr Djedje, speaking from the French embassy in Abidjan, told the BBC the "war is over". As he spoke, shooting could be heard in the background.

UN and French helicopters attacked targets around the compound on Monday.

Pro-Ouattara forces said earlier they had already overrun the residence.

They say there are a number of non-uniformed militiamen firing at them from buildings as they try to advance through the city.

Many civilians remain trapped in their homes. Food, water and electricity are scarce in the city of about four million people after days of fighting.

Forces loyal to Mr Ouattara, a former International Monetary Fund economist, began a dramatic military offensive last week, sweeping in from the north and west.

Patrick Achi, a spokesman for Mr Ouattara, told the BBC earlier that if Mr Gbagbo were captured, he would be arrested and "brought to justice".

Russian criticism

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the raids launched on Monday evening against Mr Gbagbo's arsenal were to stop attacks on civilians.

UN Mi-24 helicopters are reported to have bombarded five targets: Mr Gbagbo's residence, a republican guard base, state television headquarters, the Akban paramilitary base and the Akouedo arms depot.

UN peacekeeping chief Alain Le Roy said that a UN Security Council resolution authorised such action.

The use and calibre of heavy weapons by Gbagbo forces had, he said, escalated sharply in recent days.

Unoci had also been under almost continuous attack, he said.

But Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said: "We are now looking into the legal side of the issue because peacekeepers had a mandate which requires them to be neutral and impartial."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in a statement he had authorised the 1,600-strong French Licorne force in the country to help the UN military response.

Ivory Coast gained independence from France in 1960, but has hosted French peacekeepers since its civil war almost a decade ago.

The French military says it has about 1,900 foreigners under its protection in Abidjan, and nearly 450 others have already left the country.

The UN has sent an envoy to investigate a massacre of hundreds of civilians in the western town of Duekoue last week.

Each side has blamed the other for the killings, which the International Committee of the Red Cross says claimed at least 800 lives.

[Guardsman Bass]

I wonder if he got caught in the capture of Abibjan by his opponents and couldn't get out, or if he was just delusional and figured it would all turn in his favor right up to the end.

As for the side-topic (and this is the only bit I'm going to post on that, since this topic has been discussed Forty Billion Times before), "wanting to help out of humanitarian concerns" and "protecting interests" are not wholly mutually exclusive motives, wherein the latter implies the former is just a clever ruse.

For example, let's say there are two badly injured men, but one of them is on the other side of a Shroomippine Lava River of Doom. If I rescue the first man, but say to the second man, "Sorry Professor Shroomiarty, but it's too risky for me to try and get over there to help you", that doesn't mean that I never acted out of humanitarian concern for the first man.

[CaptainChewbacca]

He's unaccounted for, but Gbago has apparently ordered a ceasefire as a prelude to a negotiated surrender.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Hurrah for the democratically elected and sure not to disappoint IMF/Central Bank of Western Africa candidate. I'm sure he'll improve jobs and social welfare and human development for his people. Oh wait.

[Prannon]

Another article. This one is interesting.

Ivory Coast: Embattled Gbagbo denies he seeks surrender

Ivorian leader Laurent Gbagbo has denied reports he is surrendering after troops loyal to his rival surrounded his residence in Abidjan.

Speaking by phone from his bunker, he said his military were only negotiating a truce and insisted he had won November's presidential election.

Troops loyal to the internationally recognised winner, Alassane Ouattara, swept into Abidjan this week.

The city passed a largely quiet night, apart from shootings blamed on gangs.

But its population of four million remained indoors after days of heavy fighting which saw UN and French helicopters attacking Mr Gbagbo's military.

Hitler comparison

Western powers have stepped up pressure on Mr Gbagbo to resign, with US President Barack Obama saying the violence could have been averted if Mr Gbagbo had respected the election result.

Piling the psychological pressure on the discredited leader and his allies, pro-Ouattara television station TCI played extracts from Downfall, the feature film about the final days of Adolf Hitler in his bunker in Berlin.

Mr Gbagbo told French news channel LCI that his army was "currently discussing the conditions of a ceasefire with the other forces on the ground" but "on the political level no decision has yet been taken".

"I won the election and I'm not negotiating my departure," he said.

"I find it absolutely incredible that the entire world is playing this... game of poker."

His remarks contrasted with a statement from his spokesman, Ahoua Don Mello, who told Reuters news agency there were "direct negotiations based on African Union recommendations which said Alassane Ouattara is president".

Mr Gbagbo accused France, the former colonial power, of making war on his country, saying: "I don't understand how an electoral dispute in Ivory Coast has brought about the direct intervention of the French army."

Mr Gbagbo, who sounded tired but resolute, said he was not preparing to die.

"I'm not a kamikaze," he said.

"I love life. My voice is not the voice of a martyr, no, no, no, I'm not looking for death. It's not my aim, to die."

The UN mission says Mr Gbagbo's closest advisers have deserted him and he is in the basement bunker of the presidential residence "with a handful of persons".

Mr Gbagbo's army chief, Gen Philippe Mangou, confirmed for AFP news agency that he had called for a ceasefire.

This would allow for the "protection of the population, soldiers, the Republican Guard ensuring the president's security, the president himself and his family, and members of government", he said.

Scared city

UN mission spokesman Hamadoun Toure said fighting had stopped in the city but there was "sporadic shooting by groups of youths" not allied to the two rival leaders.

Civilians in the city told the BBC they were very scared. Small groups have been walking out of the city with their hands raised in the air.

As night fell on Tuesday, a resident in the Cocody area described how the day had looked and sounded like to him: "We don't speak to the neighbours, we close the house.

"We don't know what is going on outside. I'm with my brother and little children. I'm playing a board game with my brother and my cousin because that is all we have to do.

"We have to be careful with food because we don't know how long it is going to last. The water is cut off so we don't have enough water, we try to reserve it but I don't know how long it is going to last. We really don't know."

[K. A. Pital]

I wonder if he got caught in the capture of Abibjan by his opponents and couldn't get out, or if he was just delusional and figured it would all turn in his favor right up to the end.

As for the side-topic (and this is the only bit I'm going to post on that, since this topic has been discussed Forty Billion Times before), "wanting to help out of humanitarian concerns" and "protecting interests" are not wholly mutually exclusive motives, wherein the latter implies the former is just a clever ruse.

For example, let's say there are two badly injured men, but one of them is on the other side of a Shroomippine Lava River of Doom. If I rescue the first man, but say to the second man, "Sorry Professor Shroomiarty, but it's too risky for me to try and get over there to help you", that doesn't mean that I never acted out of humanitarian concern for the first man.

They're not mutually exclusive, but they can reveal an unwelcome fact, which is that no one would help purely out of humanitarian concerns. And by that I mean no major power. Because major powers are dickheads when it comes to international politics. And everyone knows this.

I think that was Shroomy's point, not that there's some sort of exclusion when you help out of self-interest. There a billion examples of nations helping other nations out of self-interest. But they are, obviously, looking far less noble when viewed by an outside observer.