Chinese Launch ASAT.

[MKSheppard]

We must counter the GOLDENEYE threat!

Chinese Anti-Satellite Missile Test Draws Criticism (Update1)

By Judy Mathewson

Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- China's destruction of an obsolete weather satellite in orbit runs counter to the ``spirit of cooperation'' in civilian space exploration, the U.S. government said today.

``We and other countries have expressed our concern to the Chinese,'' Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council, said in an e-mailed statement.

The satellite was destroyed by a missile on Jan. 11, Johndroe said. Li Junhua, a Chinese envoy to the United Nations in New York, said today in a telephone interview that he ``never heard of that.''

Reports of the test coincide with anxiety among U.S. officials that other countries are acquiring capabilities to attack civilian and military space systems. President George W. Bush signed a national space policy paper in October that asserts a U.S. right to use force against any countries or groups whose hostile acts disrupt American satellites.

While administration officials have declined to identify the countries that it says are acquiring such capabilities, Defense News reported in September that China has been conducting tests aimed at blinding U.S. satellites with lasers.

``American satellites are the soft underbelly of our national security,'' Representative Edward Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a statement today. ``It is urgent that President Bush move to guarantee their protection by initiating an international agreement to ban the development, testing, and deployment of space weapons and anti-satellite systems.''

Concern About Debris

Markey, chairman of the House subcommittee on telecommunications and the Internet, said the Chinese satellite was stationed about 500 miles above Earth, and its debris may become a problem for other satellites.

The Feng Yun 1C polar orbit weather satellite was hit by a ``kinetic kill vehicle'' on board a ballistic missile launched at or near the Xichang Space Center, Aviation Week and Space Technology reported, citing unidentified individuals in the space field. U.S. intelligence agencies are working to obtain detailed data on the test, the publication said on its Web site.

Reliance on Satellites

The U.S. is especially vulnerable to interference with its machines in space because it is so dependent on them. Power, water supply, gas and oil storage, banking and finance and government services rely on communications via satellites.

The military uses satellites for missile tracking, intelligence gathering and secure voice communications with troops on the ground.

A cloud of debris may result from the destruction of the Chinese satellite, threatening vital U.S. space-based machines, Markey said. These include a constellation of 66 communications satellites on which commercial and military clients rely, he said.

China in 2003 became the third country, after the U.S. and Russia, to send a person into space aboard its own rocket. The communist country, fueled by the fastest-growing major economy, plans to send a robot to the moon to fetch lunar soil by 2017.

[Chris OFarrell]

*shrugs*

The US is happily building an ABM system that could quite arguably threaten Chinas strategic deterrent. Makes sense they would look for ways to remind the US they ain't stupid idiots who are going to stand still.

[Admiral Valdemar]

"Spirit of co-operation" is simply "Don't try and rival us with military hardware, else we can't threaten you no more".

[MKSheppard]

Makes sense they would look for ways to remind the US they ain't stupid idiots who are going to stand still.

Meanwhile, we can already pot their satellites with a bit of work on GBI. NIKE-ZEUS actually had a very small ASAT role with a detachment at Johnston Island in the Pacific in the 1960s.

[Golan III]

Not to mention F-15 ASAT, and probably F-22 as well.

[MKSheppard]

F-15 ASAT was cancelled in the 1990s.

[Golan III]

Still is a capability that was tested and worked. Think it could be brought back again? Oh yeah.

[Golan III]

ghetto add - or you could just fry them from the ABL.

[Jason von Evil]

Not to mention F-15 ASAT, and probably F-22 as well.

Dammit, beat me to it. Bastard.

Shep: Point? We still did something more super cool than the Chinese just did.

[Sidewinder]

Considering how much money was invested in ABM research, I think it's hypocritical of the US government to criticize the Chinese military for conducting ASAT research.

[Hawkwings]

Yeah, be we did it *then*, and they're doing it *now*!

[K. A. Pital]

US criticism of someone else using military space technology? How is that new? "Space is our weapon platform, and basta!" is the essential US strategy. No wonder other countries conduct ASAT, HPL and other antispace weapon research, as well as launch their own military satellites - what's the reason _not_ to do it?

US criticism? Well, duh.

[Stark]

Shhh, let the Americans wank over their headstart over China. Clearly they should simply jump from zero to state-of-the-art in one step, right?

[MKSheppard]

Shhh, let the Americans wank over their headstart over China. Clearly they should simply jump from zero to state-of-the-art in one step, right?

This is nothing new. You don't even need anything advanced. Just an ability to:

1.) Place Satellites into orbit.
2.) Track Satellites in orbit
3.) Calculate Satellites' orbit.

Then you can use a rocket to put a inanimate carbom rod into the orbit of a enemy satellite; and watch as the satellite and carbon rod collide at orbital velocities.

[SirNitram]

The ability to hit a ~3m target from the ground in a direct ascent is actually quite impressive of China; I can't recall any such successes by American hardware(I beleive most got into orbit to decrease the different in relative velocity).

[MKSheppard]

The ability to hit a ~3m target from the ground in a direct ascent is actually quite impressive of China; I can't recall any such successes by American hardware(I beleive most got into orbit to decrease the different in relative velocity).

No it's not.

A satellite's orbit is very well known in advance.

To kill it; you just need to place something in the same orbit as the satellite ahead of time, and let orbital velocities do your work for you.

[Stark]

This is nothing new. You don't even need anything advanced. Just an ability to:

1.) Place Satellites into orbit.
2.) Track Satellites in orbit
3.) Calculate Satellites' orbit.

Then you can use a rocket to put a inanimate carbom rod into the orbit of a enemy satellite; and watch as the satellite and carbon rod collide at orbital velocities.

Don't you remember the Chinese blowing up a village with a launch vehicle failure in the 90s?

I know you do so love giving these little lessons to people who clearly already know, but laughing at the Chinese for playing catch-up is still absurd. Of course they're going to develop these capabilities, and the US whining about it when they ALREADY DID is simply ridiculous. OF COURSE the US is better at it, jesus, don't be so insecure.

[Golan III]

Giving the Chinese missile/rocket guidance data and technology in the mid-90s is now looking like a GREAT idea...

[mr friendly guy]

Shhh, let the Americans wank over their headstart over China. Clearly they should simply jump from zero to state-of-the-art in one step, right?

This is nothing new. You don't even need anything advanced. Just an ability to:

1.) Place Satellites into orbit.
2.) Track Satellites in orbit
3.) Calculate Satellites' orbit.

Then you can use a rocket to put a inanimate carbom rod into the orbit of a enemy satellite; and watch as the satellite and carbon rod collide at orbital velocities.

This does not refute Stark's statement in any way.

I suppose if were interested in maths instead of military you would be laughing at a kid who has just mastered times tables because he can't solve quadratic equations?

[SirNitram]

The ability to hit a ~3m target from the ground in a direct ascent is actually quite impressive of China; I can't recall any such successes by American hardware(I beleive most got into orbit to decrease the different in relative velocity).

No it's not.

A satellite's orbit is very well known in advance.

To kill it; you just need to place something in the same orbit as the satellite ahead of time, and let orbital velocities do your work for you.

Yes, that is the American method, and it works well.

The Chinese one apparently did during the ascent phase, that is, came right up under it and hit it. This drastically cuts flighttime, and thus, response time.

[kheegster]

``American satellites are the soft underbelly of our national security,'' Representative Edward Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a statement today. ``It is urgent that President Bush move to guarantee their protection by initiating an international agreement to ban the development, testing, and deployment of space weapons and anti-satellite systems.''

Let me guess....would said international agreement not include the US in its ban?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

``American satellites are the soft underbelly of our national security,'' Representative Edward Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a statement today. ``It is urgent that President Bush move to guarantee their protection by initiating an international agreement to ban the development, testing, and deployment of space weapons and anti-satellite systems.''

Let me guess....would said international agreement not include the US in its ban?

*gasp* No! We must maintain our superiority!

American politicians always think of their own interests and rubbish other nations' interests. As if they rule this planet already.

[Natorgator]

Time has a good article about this:

Why China's Missile Test Is Troubling

It's springtime for anti-satellite missiles — again — now that China has fired a missile into space and destroyed an aging weather satellite orbiting 500 miles above the earth. The James Bond-style exercise left a several-hundred- meter-wide cloud of scrap metal floating around in space. Some of the debris could pose a threat to spacecraft passing through the region, scientists say, and will remain a problem for hundreds of years to come. And there will be repercussions on Earth, too.

Protests and expressions of concern were lodged over the test by the U.S., Japan, Canada, South Korea and Australia, but Beijing has so far refused to comment on the issue or even confirm the test took place. "The brazenness of this is a bit frightening," says Mike Green, former senior Bush Administration Asia adviser. "It shows that the Peoples Liberation Army has considerable leeway — a great deal of influence if not autonomy — to increase their capacity even at considerable diplomatic cost."

The reason for all the fuss is simple: the test potentially marks a major step forward in China's ability to nullify the huge technological advantage of the U.S. in any clash over Taiwan. While Western intelligence agencies have long been aware that the People's Liberation Army was attempting to develop an anti-satellite system, the successful targeting of a single satellite in high orbit marks a significant milestone. When the Pentagon issued its annual report to Congress on China's Military Power last summer it stated that "China can currently destroy or disable satellites only by launching a ballistic missile or space-launch vehicle armed with a nuclear weapon." All that has now changed.

The development recalls the competition between the U.S. and the Soviet Union two decades ago to be the first to develop an astral flyswatter capable of blasting the other guy's satellites to smithereens. Moscow's was crude, but effective: a lumbering orbiting nuclear warhead that would detonate close to an enemy satellite. Washington came up with a finer blueprint, trying to perfect what Pentagon officials called their "flying tomato can," launched atop a missile flung from an F-15 fighter.

But as the Cold War sputtered to a conclusion, so did this quest for space weaponry. Now, the Chinese have mastered the tomato can. And by doing so at a distance from Earth greater than the one at which most critical U.S. satellites orbit, Beijing has demonstrated a capability, however limited, of punching out Washington's technological eyes. Indeed, it was reported last September that China had "painted" a U.S. satellite using a ground-based laser.

The Dr. Strangelovian angle on what the Pentagon calls ASAT — anti-satellite — weapons is that a foe could use them to blind key U.S. spy satellites as the first punch in a massive war. While such a notion carried some weight during the Cold War, such a war seems markedly less likely in today's world, some U.S. officials believe. Still, developing its anti-satellite capability is only one of a series of steps China is taking aimed at leveling out the playing field in case of a clash with the U.S. Other examples include the training of units designed to hack into military computers, and the development of massive shore-to-ship missile batteries that would make it very difficult for U.S. carrier groups to approach China's coast. The U.S. dependence on its technological edge is considerable: Green explains that in recent joint exercises held with the Indian Air Force, less technologically advanced Russian Sukhoi jets defeated American F-15s when the latter were deprived of support from satellite and AWACs systems.

The test and the reluctance, thus far, of Chinese authorities to confirm it, also raises the question of whether the military acted in a semi-autonomous manner. Green notes that there have been occasions in the past when the PLA has appeared to directly breach a diplomatic agreement reached by China's Foreign Ministry, notably over the passage of Chinese submarines through Japanese home waters. And because U.S. officials fear that one scenario in which a conflict between the U.S. and China over Taiwan could occur involves an independent or rogue action by disgruntled generals, any sign of independent action by the military brass is cause for concern, says Green. In fact, behind the scenes, tensions have already been rising over what U.S. officials say has been a steady build-up of Chinese forces on the coast opposite Taiwan in the last year. Washington has already expressed concern about the build-up to Beijing. The anti-satellite missile test may prompt renewed diplomatic discussion. But it's not clear what effect such expressions of concern will have on Beijing's decision-making.

[MKSheppard]

Yes, that is the American method, and it works well.

Actually no, that's the simplest method possible; e.g. simply putting something in it's orbit and waiting. We did direct ascent hits in the 1960s with NIKE ZEUS in the ASAT role at Johnston Island.

Fascinating fact:

McNamara asked the Army's research people what it would cost
to give Zeus an antisatellite mission. The estimate was about $20
million. McNamara told them to go ahead. The Army complained
of having no authorization or budget. The Secretary scratched on
his note pad, "I owe the Army $20,000,000," tore off the page,
tossed it over the table, and ordered them to get on with it.

[SirNitram]

Yes, that is the American method, and it works well.

Actually no, that's the simplest method possible; e.g. simply putting something in it's orbit and waiting. We did direct ascent hits in the 1960s with NIKE ZEUS in the ASAT role at Johnston Island.

Fascinating fact:

McNamara asked the Army's research people what it would cost
to give Zeus an antisatellite mission. The estimate was about $20
million. McNamara told them to go ahead. The Army complained
of having no authorization or budget. The Secretary scratched on
his note pad, "I owe the Army $20,000,000," tore off the page,
tossed it over the table, and ordered them to get on with it.

Once again, NIKE ZEUS is not existant anymore. I have no doubt it could be duplicated, but at present, there's no reason to assume the interceptors made now can duplicate their phenomenal successes.

More interesting to me is that folks are trying to get ABL up as the 'counter' to this. Might make the damn system get on the timetable.. For once.