Sen. Byrd says "Do Something About Gas Prices"

[Tommy J]

If it's refinement capacity please explain the below.

[Col. Crackpot]

And nothing was done, because everyone wanted to worship the All Mighty Bottom Line, which says never build a new refinery if you can simply run the old ones for more profit, etc...

Actually, no it's because of the NIMBYs and EPA regs. Less trouble to keep
the old ones running than to build a new one and go through all the paperwork.

the same EPA regs that cause filthy, nasty smoke belching powerplants to be built in place like Baja and Nogales Mexico to generate power that is sold to the US power grid....

[SirNitram]

And nothing was done, because everyone wanted to worship the All Mighty Bottom Line, which says never build a new refinery if you can simply run the old ones for more profit, etc...

Actually, no it's because of the NIMBYs and EPA regs. Less trouble to keep
the old ones running than to build a new one and go through all the paperwork.

the same EPA regs that cause filthy, nasty smoke belching powerplants to be built in place like Baja and Nogales Mexico to generate power that is sold to the US power grid....

Solution: Set fire to eyebrows until nuclear power is embraced and hydrogen fuel begins pennies for the gallon...

[Col. Crackpot]

goddammit i agree with Nitram. Cheap nuclear power for all!

[Beowulf]

If it's refinement capacity please explain the below.

Global refinery capacity. Not US refinery capacity.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I don't trust the average motorist with a car powered by uranium...

[SirNitram]

I don't trust the average motorist with a car powered by uranium...

As I said in my post.. Hydrogen fuel. Fuel cells.

Though this will make the muscle car and harley owners cry. And I will regularly bath in their tears. While I kill little puppies.

[Admiral Valdemar]

As I said in my post.. Hydrogen fuel. Fuel cells.

Though this will make the muscle car and harley owners cry. And I will regularly bath in their tears. While I kill little puppies.

While I was being jocular, I do recall atomic cars being considered in that wacky era of ATOMIC EVERYTHING that was the '50s. I can't imagine how they'd pull it off, but if Rover thought gas turbines in cars were the future, anything's game.

And yes, the faces of those that want loud engines when they have to convert to fuel-cells will be priceless.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

US housing prices are being driven up by speculation faster than they are by commodities costs (though those aren't helping). I believe I read a statistic where two out of every three houses purchased are investment properties or vacation homes.

Can't wait to see what happens when THAT bubble bursts.

I'll get a new home!

[Col. Crackpot]

As I said in my post.. Hydrogen fuel. Fuel cells.

Though this will make the muscle car and harley owners cry. And I will regularly bath in their tears. While I kill little puppies.

While I was being jocular, I do recall atomic cars being considered in that wacky era of ATOMIC EVERYTHING that was the '50s. I can't imagine how they'd pull it off, but if Rover thought gas turbines in cars were the future, anything's game.

And yes, the faces of those that want loud engines when they have to convert to fuel-cells will be priceless.

Behold! The Ford NUCLEON!

[desertjedi]

You know housing prices are bad when people that used to work and live in the San Diego area are moving to the Imperial Valley or even to the Yuma Valley which are about 1.5-2 hours one way. Living in Yuma (Arizona) means cheaper gas (-.30 compared to El Centro/San Deigo gas prices) and MUCH cheaper housing (nice 3br 2ba house $120K-$180K). It's sad that people are starting to realise that in order to making a living for your family, save money for education and retirement, you have to make such decisions, like driving a 3-4 hour commute a day. I'm thinking that I may have to do the same thing within the next two years... Just so I can afford a house.

[Darth Wong]

Why is it so important to have a house? One of the misfires of early 20th century futurists was their assumption that people in the future would live in high-rise apartment buildings because of the higher efficiency of this kind of living arrangement. Instead, people insisted on buying houses (huge ones; houses get bigger all the time) and cities started spreading out horizontally, hence the suburban sprawl which causes these huge long commutes.

[Marksist]

How long will it be until the Hybrid cars come down in price to match their gas-consuming equivalents? I would have no problem with using a Hybrid car, and I've talked to quite a few people that wouldn't mind having them, but as of now they are too expensive.

[Darth Wong]

I'll use a hybrid car when it has the same cargo and passenger space as my Grand Marquis, and enough power to hit 120 km/h by the end of the merging lane on the highway.

[Joe]

snip

Taxes are also a huge factor favoring home ownership, at least in America...

[LadyTevar]

The vast majority of the infastructure work has already been done in order to lay rail lines.

Also, if they do get a rail commuter line running, it would enable people to get from their home to work with minimum cost to the people. Get all three levels of government to kick in money, and you've got it done.

Look at California and its rail network, it is booming.

You wouldn't need big trains, start with smaller, used equipment that is cheap, and you will find that you can save a fortune.

The very least would be to have a rail network around Charleston, and expand it from there.

Most major cities in North America have them, and the can cheaply move thousands of people.

You did not read what I said clearly, did you. MOST of the rails that were laid back around 1900 are not useable because they've been torn up or are in such disrepair that the cost of repair would far outweigh the benefits of doing so.

[Tommy J]

I'll use a hybrid car when it has the same cargo and passenger space as my Grand Marquis, and enough power to hit 120 km/h by the end of the merging lane on the highway.

I looked at the below 2005 Accord before buying a car last year. But like you, no one is going to pry the keys out of my hands to my BMW. [don't know if it has the same cargo room however.]

The Accord hybrid is faster than a conventional V6 Accord, and significantly more fuel efficient. It was also awarded the 2005 Best Family Sedan according to Consumer Reports

The world's first V-6 powered hybrid car, the Honda Accord Hybrid utilizes a third-generation Integrated Motor Assist full hybrid system combined with an all new Variable Cylinder Management cylinder deactivation system. This combination produces powerful V-6 performance with the fuel-efficiency of a V-4 in the Accord hybrid.


The Hybrid Accord goes
0 - 60
one second faster than the
standard Accord


The VCM can shut off 3 of 6 cylinders, when performance isn't needed, such as during highway cruising or going down hill.

The Accord hybrid also achieves extra efficiency with 'idle stop', a feature that causes the Accord to turn itself off when the car comes to a stop from a speed above 10 mph, or when the car slows below 10 mph. As soon as the brake is released; however, the engine immediately restarts.

Delivering 255 horsepower, the Honda Accord Hybrid achieves an EPA estimated 30 mpg in the city, and 37 mpg on the highway - about a 43 percent increase over the standard V-6 vehicle.

[LadyTevar]

Why is it so important to have a house? One of the misfires of early 20th century futurists was their assumption that people in the future would live in high-rise apartment buildings because of the higher efficiency of this kind of living arrangement. Instead, people insisted on buying houses (huge ones; houses get bigger all the time) and cities started spreading out horizontally, hence the suburban sprawl which causes these huge long commutes.

Wong? Do you have a yard for the boys to play in? Do you have to worry about nosy or noisy neighbors upstairs or downstairs?

There's two reasons for buying your own home.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'll use a hybrid car when it has the same cargo and passenger space as my Grand Marquis, and enough power to hit 120 km/h by the end of the merging lane on the highway.

Alternatively, a better way to tie yourself over until the energy economy changes completely in the transition to hydrogen or whatever, there are new fuel-cells. Being developed now, they can use normal octane fuel with an average of double the fuel economy over internal combustion and also use hydrogen or ethanol come the revolution. I never did like hybrid cars myself, seems too much of a compromise.

[Sea Skimmer]

While I was being jocular, I do recall atomic cars being considered in that wacky era of ATOMIC EVERYTHING that was the '50s. I can't imagine how they'd pull it off, but if Rover thought gas turbines in cars were the future, anything's game.

Ford proposed an atomic powered car, which would be refueled every IIRC 50,000 miles, via simply removing the entire reactor and replacing it with a new one. The old reactor could then be taken back to a central facility to actually have the uranium swapped out. The main problem is how the fuck do you cool the reactor effectively, espically when the car is not moving forward and how the fuck do you build a nuclear powered 'car' without it weighing as much as a multi rear axle truck.

As for turbines, they make perfect sense, if you combined them with a continuously variable transmission. The fuel economy isn't even that bad when you have such a combination. The trick is building a CVT, which is reliable (for more then a single auto race anyway), something that has really only become possible in very recent years. It also does fuck with the sound, since the engine doesn't need to rev up or down, it just climbs to its optimal RPM and stays at that point until you lift off the gas.

And yes, the faces of those that want loud engines when they have to convert to fuel-cells will be priceless.

Bah, if all the economy cars run on hydrogen then we can rebuild all our refineries to produce nothing but 100 octane AVGAS, to power a new generation of high performance road dominating gas guzzling street racing machines.

[desertjedi]

Why would anyone want to live in a box with neighbors above, below, left, and right of you with common walls, floors, and ceilings when you could have a piece of land that is yours, with a house of your design and an actual back yard.

I came from a rural area where agriculture is king and living in the city to me is really over rated. Between pollution of diffrerent sorts, crime, population congestion, I find myself missing my mom's place on the reservation, hence why I might go back to buy a house and commute to the SD area.

I do admit that evetually, it will come to huge arcologies into the sky in order to house people in the cities. I just can't help but picture Blade Runner when I think of them though.

[Darth Wong]

Wong? Do you have a yard for the boys to play in? Do you have to worry about nosy or noisy neighbors upstairs or downstairs?

There's two reasons for buying your own home.

Of course there are reasons for wanting your own home. I'm just pointing out that it's not a need, and that it is costly for society at large, as well as the environment.

[RedImperator]

Why is it so important to have a house? One of the misfires of early 20th century futurists was their assumption that people in the future would live in high-rise apartment buildings because of the higher efficiency of this kind of living arrangement. Instead, people insisted on buying houses (huge ones; houses get bigger all the time) and cities started spreading out horizontally, hence the suburban sprawl which causes these huge long commutes.

It's not so much the type of building as it is the fact that you own it. My parents' mortgage payment is $600 a month. My apartment rental will be $600 a month. Their house is an asset--they can draw on the equity, and when they retire, they'll sell it. My apartment will belong to someone else, and the money I pay in rent will be just as good, from the point of view of my net worth, as cash flushed down the toilet. For the vast majority of Americans, their house is their most valuable asset and their nest egg.

I have no particular desire to own a house, a certainly not a giant McMansion with a huge lawn. But from an investment point of view, it makes no sense to spend money for a place to live that doesn't belong to me. I'd be happy with a condo, frankly, at least until I have kids and space becomes an issue.

[Darth Wong]

Why would anyone want to live in a box with neighbors above, below, left, and right of you with common walls, floors, and ceilings when you could have a piece of land that is yours, with a house of your design and an actual back yard.

So you can live in a community where it's actually possible to do sidewalk shopping and go everywhere you want without using a car. There are upsides and downsides to both arrangements.

I came from a rural area where agriculture is king and living in the city to me is really over rated. Between pollution of diffrerent sorts, crime, population congestion, I find myself missing my mom's place on the reservation, hence why I might go back to buy a house and commute to the SD area.

I've lived in rural areas before, in one case for 4 straight years. The behaviours there are incredibly wasteful and expensive for society; the cost of delivering basic services is far greater per capita in rural communities than urban communities because everything is so spread out. And you sure as hell can't walk out your front door and go sidewalk shopping. Not to mention being surrounded by rednecks.

I do admit that evetually, it will come to huge arcologies into the sky in order to house people in the cities. I just can't help but picture Blade Runner when I think of them though.

The most efficient model is humans in cities and giant industrialized farms in the countryside. Small family farms are a ridiculous anachronism that continue to exist only because of social reactionism and government subsidies.

[Sea Skimmer]

I do admit that evetually, it will come to huge arcologies into the sky in order to house people in the cities. I just can't help but picture Blade Runner when I think of them though.

I doubt it; a hoard of say 30 story apartment buildings ought to offer all the space that's ever needed. The whole world population would fit into the State of Texas if the population density was that of New York City, and while NYC is full of tall buildings, most of them aren't residential. 30-ish story buildings would also be far safer, and more importantly they are just more feasible investments. Huge buildings take huge initial investments; take huge amounts of time to build, and when you done you might not be able to fill them with tenants.