Second Galactic Empire Vs Star Trek

[montypython]

The irony is that in Star Trek the major powers in question are, if not necessarily democratic, mainly aristocratic republics. The Klingons for example have a High Council who selects the Chancellor, and the recently revived monarch is just a figurehead, while the Romulans have a Praetor selected by the Senate, and the Cardassians have either a military or civilian council in charge. The Tholians, Dominion, the races of the Delta Quadrant and the Borg aren't even close to monarchies in the traditional sense either. The closest one would be the Gorn Hegemony, but they tend to be isolationist. Star Fleet Battles hews closer to the traditional Space Opera elements of Star Wars rather than baseline Star Trek, with the Klingons and Romulans being actual monarchies, so that would be a closer example to the intended premise of the thread.

[noncredible]

They have the same weapons and tech as the first galactic empire, victory for the empire.

[Lagmonster]

They have the same weapons and tech as the first galactic empire, victory for the empire.

You didn't read the thread, or even the OP. This is a discussion about politics and society, not weapons and tactics. Please don't just post blindly.

[Luke SW]

I am a huge fan of both trek and wars and while i think star wars weapons are reasonably powerful the science of star wars is actually quite low tech compared to star trek. This maybe due to the empires tech stagnating and not advancing over the years while trek tech is all about exploration and discovery.

STAR WARS

Star wars tend for a more direct and larger but low tech solution by building a moon sized battle station that according to comments made in the ANH novel is powered by fusion, it also seems that electricity is how they distribute power with actual wires, this is also supported by the use of "ion cannons".

The simplistic robot designs and abilities in star wars are basic at best and even in the newer films (R2D2 using actual flaming thrusters instead of antigrav for example) shows that the level of tech has stopped at a very young era and instead of growing more intricate like a advancing culture we see more powerful versions of simplistic designs.

The turbo lasers needing to be loaded with power cells that spit out after firing that are the equivalent of "shells" in contemporary artilliary also show the issues that using basic electricity causes when needed to power weapons ect. Obviously this also leads to rather poor shielding with examples of such in many of the movies , EG: ships and other objects flying into or around enemy ships even during combat when shields are going to obviously be up.

STAR TREK

We have very few examples of weapons of mass destruction from trek due to their rather fluffy carebear ideals but from examples in the various series we know that a 54 isoton "gravametric charge" can destroy a planet or explode a type 6 proto star (ST Voy: "The omega directive"), and that the charge itself is about half the size of a basketball and can be fitted into a photon torpedo casing.

Tri-corders that would make R2D2 look like a cheap spanner by comparison and comm badges that can translate new languages unlike C3PO who had to be programmed with the languages beforehand. Power generation in trek is done with antimatter reactions in the federation and klingon empire while miniture artificial black holes are used in the in the romulan empire, plasma conduits are used to transfer energy.

The ships in the federation are slower (at max warp speed) than ships in the Star wars galaxy although that is refering to the enterprise D and E eras or earlier and not the near future or even discovered tech like "quantum slipstream drive" (voyager) or indeed more advanced cultures like the borg. Obviosly galaxy and sov class ships are considerably more manouverable than a star destroyer.

Trek also have much smaller ships likely due to not needing vast fusion reactors and ion drives and although they are slower (at max warp speed) and smaller it is obvious that the advanced tech they have easily makes them more powerful than a large but simplistic star destroyer.

As far as QTY is concerned its all goes to Star wars, they are a galactic empire while the federation lives in a single quadrant of its galaxy and most of that is either part of another empire or not fully explored.

So all in all id say that the federation would be hard pressed to defeat the Empire, mostly due to the feds morals about genocide, however give the evil mirror universe of trek the fed tech and their lack of morals would see the Star wars galaxy destroyed planret by planet and star by star or on its knees.

[Srelex]

I am a huge fan of both trek and wars and while i think star wars weapons are reasonably powerful the science of star wars is actually quite low tech compared to star trek. This maybe due to the empires tech stagnating and not advancing over the years while trek tech is all about exploration and discovery.

STAR WARS

Star wars tend for a more direct and larger but low tech solution by building a moon sized battle station that according to comments made in the ANH novel is powered by fusion, it also seems that electricity is how they distribute power with actual wires, this is also supported by the use of "ion cannons".

The simplistic robot designs and abilities in star wars are basic at best and even in the newer films (R2D2 using actual flaming thrusters instead of antigrav for example) shows that the level of tech has stopped at a very young era and instead of growing more intricate like a advancing culture we see more powerful versions of simplistic designs.

The turbo lasers needing to be loaded with power cells that spit out after firing that are the equivalent of "shells" in contemporary artilliary also show the issues that using basic electricity causes when needed to power weapons ect. Obviously this also leads to rather poor shielding with examples of such in many of the movies , EG: ships and other objects flying into or around enemy ships even during combat when shields are going to obviously be up.

STAR TREK

We have very few examples of weapons of mass destruction from trek due to their rather fluffy carebear ideals but from examples in the various series we know that a 54 isoton "gravametric charge" can destroy a planet or explode a type 6 proto star (ST Voy: "The omega directive"), and that the charge itself is about half the size of a basketball and can be fitted into a photon torpedo casing.

Tri-corders that would make R2D2 look like a cheap spanner by comparison and comm badges that can translate new languages unlike C3PO who had to be programmed with the languages beforehand. Power generation in trek is done with antimatter reactions in the federation and klingon empire while miniture artificial black holes are used in the in the romulan empire, plasma conduits are used to transfer energy.

The ships in the federation are slower (at max warp speed) than ships in the Star wars galaxy although that is refering to the enterprise D and E eras or earlier and not the near future or even discovered tech like "quantum slipstream drive" (voyager) or indeed more advanced cultures like the borg. Obviosly galaxy and sov class ships are considerably more manouverable than a star destroyer.

Trek also have much smaller ships likely due to not needing vast fusion reactors and ion drives and although they are slower (at max warp speed) and smaller it is obvious that the advanced tech they have easily makes them more powerful than a large but simplistic star destroyer.

As far as QTY is concerned its all goes to Star wars, they are a galactic empire while the federation lives in a single quadrant of its galaxy and most of that is either part of another empire or not fully explored.

So all in all id say that the federation would be hard pressed to defeat the Empire, mostly due to the feds morals about genocide, however give the evil mirror universe of trek the fed tech and their lack of morals would see the Star wars galaxy destroyed planret by planet and star by star or on its knees.

Have you read the main site?

[DrStrangelove]

I am a huge fan of both trek and wars and while i think star wars weapons are reasonably powerful the science of star wars is actually quite low tech compared to star trek. This maybe due to the empires tech stagnating and not advancing over the years while trek tech is all about exploration and discovery.

Oh yay, another style over substance moron.

Star wars tend for a more direct and larger but low tech solution by building a moon sized battle station that according to comments made in the ANH novel is powered by fusion, it also seems that electricity is how they distribute power with actual wires, this is also supported by the use of "ion cannons".

And where is your evidence it is lower tech? Fusion? Wires? Fusion of what, are they superconducting?

The simplistic robot designs and abilities in star wars are basic at best and even in the newer films (R2D2 using actual flaming thrusters instead of antigrav for example) shows that the level of tech has stopped at a very young era and instead of growing more intricate like a advancing culture we see more powerful versions of simplistic designs.

Yet in ST they can't even mass produce similar "simplistic" designs. TNG Relics, dialog between LaForge and Scott establishes impulse engines haven't changed much in 100 years, so much for an advancing culture

The turbo lasers needing to be loaded with power cells that spit out after firing that are the equivalent of "shells" in contemporary artilliary also show the issues that using basic electricity causes when needed to power weapons ect. Obviously this also leads to rather poor shielding with examples of such in many of the movies , EG: ships and other objects flying into or around enemy ships even during combat when shields are going to obviously be up.

And I'm sure you have evidence for all this garbage.

We have very few examples of weapons of mass destruction from trek due to their rather fluffy carebear ideals but from examples in the various series we know that a 54 isoton "gravametric charge" can destroy a planet or explode a type 6 proto star (ST Voy: "The omega directive"), and that the charge itself is about half the size of a basketball and can be fitted into a photon torpedo casing.

And yet we've never seen it or any similar weapons used, so for all we know it's all hyperbole. Like saying you're going to bomb someone back to the stone age.

Tri-corders that would make R2D2 look like a cheap spanner by comparison and comm badges that can translate new languages unlike C3PO who had to be programmed with the languages beforehand. Power generation in trek is done with antimatter reactions in the federation and klingon empire while miniture artificial black holes are used in the in the romulan empire, plasma conduits are used to transfer energy.

A tri-corder cant fix a ship,a universal translator can't advise on cultural issues or watch kids. And you've yet to explain why ST power generation is superior. Plasma conduits for power distribution are moronic as any battle damage results in large hot plasma leaks causing explosions(since plasma likes to expand rapidly)

The ships in the federation are slower (at max warp speed) than ships in the Star wars galaxy although that is refering to the enterprise D and E eras or earlier and not the near future or even discovered tech like "quantum slipstream drive" (voyager) or indeed more advanced cultures like the borg. Obviosly galaxy and sov class ships are considerably more manouverable than a star destroyer.

The least idiotic thing you've said so far. Although you still have no evidence that all the future tech is superior to hyperdrive. As for the last B-wings and Skipray Blastboats are more maneuverable than ST ships, your point being?

Trek also have much smaller ships likely due to not needing vast fusion reactors and ion drives and although they are slower (at max warp speed) and smaller it is obvious that the advanced tech they have easily makes them more powerful than a large but simplistic star destroyer.

And you have evidence to support this, right?

As far as QTY is concerned its all goes to Star wars, they are a galactic empire while the federation lives in a single quadrant of its galaxy and most of that is either part of another empire or not fully explored.

ell at least you're not a total fanboi idiot.

So all in all id say that the federation would be hard pressed to defeat the Empire, mostly due to the feds morals about genocide, however give the evil mirror universe of trek the fed tech and their lack of morals would see the Star wars galaxy destroyed planret by planet and star by star or on its knees.

Nope, not unless everyone in the SW galaxy just sat around and let them do it. Not to mention no non-omnipotent power in trek has demonstrated the power to casually destroy stars or planets.

[Luke SW]

Oh yay, another style over substance moron..

Oy yay a rude troll.

And where is your evidence it is lower tech? Fusion? Wires? Fusion of what, are they superconducting?".

Well i have seen the movies for one thing and its blindingly obvious its lower tech, mechanical moving parts, ion cannon/thrusters. Look at hoe SW repairs things lol, they use silly little droids while ST uses replication tech and even beaming tech. ST also got past the whole robot age and can now use hologramic tech to do things in hostile enviroments.

Yet in ST they can't even mass produce similar "simplistic" designs. TNG Relics, dialog between LaForge and Scott establishes impulse engines haven't changed much in 100 years, so much for an advancing culture

They can easily reproduce simplistic designs in ST they just advanced to a point where holograms, replication tech and transporter tech means droids are rather pointless.

And I'm sure you have evidence for all this garbage..

Yea we refer to it on earth as "watching the movies and series".

And yet we've never seen it or any similar weapons used, so for all we know it's all hyperbole. Like saying you're going to bomb someone back to the stone age. .

Of course we have seen a variety of tech being used, the ability to pop a sun in generations, a episode of ds9 in just a runabout (although they stopped the founder from doing it just in time), DS9 episode where they reactivated a dead sun as a form of terraforming, the genisis device (though it was kinda faulty from its original design it had a very nasty effect due to proto matter), and yea the gravametric charge from voyager.

The list goes on, however due to being a bit of a fluffy lot the trek guys do not normally play with WMD's much.

A tri-corder cant fix a ship,.

Actually it can, or at least it can repair a high tech ship, one with moving mechanical parts on the OUTSIDE on the ship however is kinda LOL.

a universal translator can't advise on cultural issues or watch kids.,.

So what?...lol

And you've yet to explain why ST power generation is superior.

It has been explained you are just not listening

The least idiotic thing you've said so far. .

Unfortunatly you are still a rude troll.

Although you still have no evidence that all the future tech is superior to hyperdrive. .

1. the borg can move from galaxy to galxy easily.

2. in a few hundred years the federation has time ships (voyager: "relativity").

As for the last B-wings and Skipray Blastboats are more maneuverable than ST ships, your point being? .

Get a clue, runabouts and fed attack fighters would fly circles around SW junk.

And you have evidence to support this, right? .

Al;ready given, yu may wanna watrch the series and movies of both though as you seem to be a bit out of touch.

well at least you're not a total fanboi idiot.

We already have you (and im betting others) for that.

Nope, not unless everyone in the SW galaxy just sat around and let them do it. Not to mention no non-omnipotent power in trek has demonstrated the power to casually destroy stars or planets.

By casual do you mean like somebody trying to join the nexus destroying 2 stars to redirect the ribbon, or a dominion agent in a runabout with a explosive device heading to kill the bajoran sun?.

Like i say i love Star wars but the tech in it is very low level compared to ST and examples of that are rife throughout the movies.......suck it up dude its not all doom and gloom, the SW alliance is bigger and covers a galaxy and has faster ships (for now at least).

[Batman]

Oh yay, another style over substance moron..

Oy yay a rude troll.

There's only one troll here and it's not the doctor. And if you think that was rude, you better leave before people tell you what they REALLY think of you.

And where is your evidence it is lower tech? Fusion? Wires? Fusion of what, are they superconducting?".

Well i have seen the movies for one thing and its blindingly obvious its lower tech,

Yup. 7 figure c civilian transport stardrive speeds, planet destroying firepower, triple figure g acceleration, bare bones minimum MT range firepower for LTLs, sentient AIs all over the place vs MAYBE-MT photon torpedoes, 5-6 figure c tops and 4 figure c continuous Warp speed, AI being the next best thing to unheard of, Data being irreproduceable by Trek technology...

mechanical moving parts,

You mean just like Trek? Mechanically moving doors, mechanically moving docking clamps, mechanically moving turbolifts, etc?

ion cannon/thrusters.

Three guesses as to what impulse engines are.

Look at hoe SW repairs things lol, they use silly little droids while ST uses replication tech and even beaming tech.

As evidenced by nothing whatsoever. large scale construction (like, you know, starships) apparently still pretty much happens the old fashioned way.

ST also got past the whole robot age and can now use hologramic tech to do things in hostile enviroments.

Which is why they were totally not interested in how Data was put together. Oh wait.

Yet in ST they can't even mass produce similar "simplistic" designs. TNG Relics, dialog between LaForge and Scott establishes impulse engines haven't changed much in 100 years, so much for an advancing culture

They can easily reproduce simplistic designs in ST they just advanced to a point where holograms, replication tech and transporter tech means droids are rather pointless.

Which is why nobody was interested in Data at all. Oh wait.

And I'm sure you have evidence for all this garbage..

Yea we refer to it on earth as "watching the movies and series".

Which unfortunately completely fail to support your allegations.

And yet we've never seen it or any similar weapons used, so for all we know it's all hyperbole. Like saying you're going to bomb someone back to the stone age. .

Of course we have seen a variety of tech being used, the ability to pop a sun in generations

Which is lostech so the Trek side doesn't HAVE it, is pathetically easy to intercept and won't do beans against anything other than a sun to boot,

, a episode of ds9 in just a runabout (although they stopped the founder from doing it just in time), DS9 episode where they reactivated a dead sun as a form of terraforming,

Can anybody ungarble that for me? I never watched DS9 really (which was probably my loss)

the genisis device (though it was kinda faulty from its original design it had a very nasty effect due to proto matter)

which they ALSO don't have thanks to the only person who knew how to make it work being dead. Not that I see where Genesis is all that useful a weapon to begin with.

A tri-corder cant fix a ship,.

Actually it can, or at least it can repair a high tech ship, one with moving mechanical parts on the OUTSIDE on the ship however is kinda LOL.

As evidenced by-you saying so.

And you've yet to explain why ST power generation is superior.

It has been explained you are just not listening

It has most certainly not. I don't care HOW Wars power generation works, it enables the DS1 to generate 1E38J blasts. REPEATEDLY.Out of the onboard fuel supplies of the DS1. A Trek ship would have to a)carry and b) expend in excess of 1E18 tons of fuel (assuming perfect reactivity) to equal that, nevermind apply all of it to the target. No.

The least idiotic thing you've said so far. .

Unfortunatly you are still a rude troll.

Again, you have no idea what rude means around here.

Although you still have no evidence that all the future tech is superior to hyperdrive. .

1. the borg can move from galaxy to galxy easily.

As evidenced by what, if you could be bothered?

2. in a few hundred years the federation has time ships (voyager: "relativity").

And since time travel doesn't do jack all about the power discrepancy this is relevant why? Your timeships can now run away inrto another reality.Congratulations. The one they came from still gets royally curbstomped.

As for the last B-wings and Skipray Blastboats are more maneuverable than ST ships, your point being? .

Get a clue, runabouts and fed attack fighters would fly circles around SW junk.

I see you actually provided figures to support that. Oh wait. You didn't. Trek spaceships make modern day naval craft look SPEEDY and AGILE.

And you have evidence to support this, right? .

Al;ready given, yu may wanna watrch the series and movies of both though as you seem to be a bit out of touch.

You obviously don't understand what EVIDENCE means. YOU have to SHOW the series and movies show what you claim they do, or at the very least refer to WHERE they allegedly do so.

well at least you're not a total fanboi idiot.

We already have you (and im betting others) for that.

Says the fanboi idiot.

[DrStrangelove]

Oy yay a rude troll.

WAAANNNHHH Get used to it, I'm relatively nice compared to most of the posters here. And doesnt change the fact your argument is based on style over substance.

Well i have seen the movies for one thing and its blindingly obvious its lower tech, mechanical moving parts, ion cannon/thrusters. Look at hoe SW repairs things lol, they use silly little droids while ST uses replication tech and even beaming tech. ST also got past the whole robot age and can now use hologramic tech to do things in hostile enviroments.

Once again style over substance, you haven't quantified anything to prove SW tech is inferior, all you've proved is that its different.

They can easily reproduce simplistic designs in ST they just advanced to a point where holograms, replication tech and transporter tech means droids are rather pointless.

How odd starfleet doesnt find Data pointless, to the point of wanting to dissect him to attempt to recreate the technology used in his construction

Yea we refer to it on earth as "watching the movies and series".

And we refer to it as burden of proof, prove that its better than SW, short-bus reject

Of course we have seen a variety of tech being used, the ability to pop a sun in generations, a episode of ds9 in just a runabout (although they stopped the founder from doing it just in time), DS9 episode where they reactivated a dead sun as a form of terraforming, the genisis device (though it was kinda faulty from its original design it had a very nasty effect due to proto matter), and yea the gravametric charge from voyager.

Just because they mention or use some experimental technology once doesnt mean its a readily producible weapons system. Prove they can easily produce, deploy, and use such one off rubbish. I seem to remember a lack of destroyed planets and stars in the Dominion War, the UFP-Cadassian War, Every ST war really.

The list goes on, however due to being a bit of a fluffy lot the trek guys do not normally play with WMD's much.

And yet the list of actual use is non-existent. Unlike SW where the Empire doesnt necessarily hesitate to use WMDs or overwhelming firepower, DeathStars, Base Delta Zero orders, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, Centerpoint Station, etc.

Actually it can, or at least it can repair a high tech ship, one with moving mechanical parts on the OUTSIDE on the ship however is kinda LOL.

How odd, I dont remember any tri-corders running over and fixing warp core breaches by themselves.

So what?...lol

Protocol droids obviously have many more uses than just translating, unlike a universal translator.

It has been explained you are just not listening

No you just said it was better, you didnt prove anything

Unfortunatly you are still a rude troll.

Which is quite irrelevant to your argument

1. the borg can move from galaxy to galxy easily.

Evidence?

2. in a few hundred years the federation has time ships (voyager: "relativity").

And for all we know so will SW, not relevant to the issue at hand

Get a clue, runabouts and fed attack fighters would fly circles around SW junk.

Proof? Just because you say it doesnt magically make it true.

Al;ready given, yu may wanna watrch the series and movies of both though as you seem to be a bit out of touch.

And as I've mentioned many times you've provided no evidence to prove your assertions. Just saying its better doesnt magically make it so.

By casual do you mean like somebody trying to join the nexus destroying 2 stars to redirect the ribbon, or a dominion agent in a runabout with a explosive device heading to kill the bajoran sun?.

Yet we have no laundry list of the many destroyed stars, and planets from the Dominion War

Like i say i love Star wars but the tech in it is very low level compared to ST and examples of that are rife throughout the movies.......suck it up dude its not all doom and gloom, the SW alliance is bigger and covers a galaxy and has faster ships (for now at least).

Funny how every retard trekkie says this. Well except for the partial speed concession, although that doesnt change much in way of the facts. Your entire argument is based on style over substance, you have yet to offer any quantification that would prove your assertions as fact.

[Luke SW]

because they mention or use some experimental technology once doesnt mean its a readily producible weapons system. Prove they can easily produce, deploy, and use such one off rubbish. .

Within minutes of the omega molicule showing up on sensors janeway had tuvok and harry refit a photon torp with a warhead capable of popping a planet or sun.........a lot faster than needing to build a deathstar lol...

I seem to remember a lack of destroyed planets and stars in the Dominion War, the UFP-Cadassian War, Every ST war really..

Yea cos popping a planet that you can actually enslave instead and use to expand your empire is soooo smart...

Unlike SW where the Empire doesnt necessarily hesitate to use WMDs or overwhelming firepower, DeathStars, Base Delta Zero orders, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, Centerpoint Station, etc...

The federation is a bit like Heineken, they do not really make WMD's but when they do they are the BEST WMD's.

. How odd, I dont remember any tri-corders running over and fixing warp core breaches by themselves.

No need, unlike silly wars tech, trek tech can actually be fixed from inside the ship and the use of replicators as well as transporters mean low tech robots are not required.

Protocol droids obviously have many more uses than just translating, unlike a universal translator.

Yea they can show your children what walking after you have shit yourself looks like......plus a tricorder can give out any info on a cultures beliefs and customs that is required while fitting into a pocket.

2. in a few hundred years the federation has time ships (voyager: "relativity").

And for all we know so will SW, not relevant to the issue at hand

SW tech has been around for many thousands of years and has stagnated and stalled, trek tech has only been around for a few hundred and is noty only more advanced than SW tech already but is proven that in a few more hundred years will be capable of tme as well as intergalactic travel......ALL 100% CANON FROM EPISODES IN THE SERIES.

[Batman]

I note a complete and utter lack of a)providing evidence and b)addressing rebuttals. But I'll give you this, entity which abuses Luke's good name-you refuse to do so in ALL the threads you troll.

[DrStrangelove]

Within minutes of the omega molicule showing up on sensors janeway had tuvok and harry refit a photon torp with a warhead capable of popping a planet or sun.........a lot faster than needing to build a deathstar lol...

And yet no devastated worlds or stars during the Dominion War

Yea cos popping a planet that you can actually enslave instead and use to expand your empire is soooo smart...

Or it is too hard to achieve under combat conditions

The federation is a bit like Heineken, they do not really make WMD's but when they do they are the BEST WMD's.

Yet they dont make them so we have no way of knowing

No need, unlike silly wars tech, trek tech can actually be fixed from inside the ship and the use of replicators as well as transporters mean low tech robots are not required.

How odd the didn't use this magic tech after TWoK or during the year of hell on voyager or after the battle against the borg in the BoBW

Yea they can show your children what walking after you have shit yourself looks like......plus a tricorder can give out any info on a cultures beliefs and customs that is required while fitting into a pocket.

Really since when?

SW tech has been around for many thousands of years and has stagnated and stalled, trek tech has only been around for a few hundred and is noty only more advanced than SW tech already but is proven that in a few more hundred years will be capable of tme as well as intergalactic travel......ALL 100% CANON FROM EPISODES IN THE SERIES.

An assertion you've yet to prove, also what trek achieves in the future is irrelevant

[Luke SW]

Within minutes of the omega molicule showing up on sensors janeway had tuvok and harry refit a photon torp with a warhead capable of popping a planet or sun.........a lot faster than needing to build a deathstar lol...

And yet no devastated worlds or stars during the Dominion War

What kind of a dumb cunt are you?, the fed is not abot to start poping suns and planets killing billions of ppl due to being fluffy and the dominion was all about domination and had throw away soldiers so they did not give a fuck about losses.

Not only that but do you remember the cold war?, do you remember how the super powers bumped heads using conventional weapons but never resorted to nuking the fuck out of the entire planet...summat like that is easy to remember pal.

The fact is that ALL of the larger powers in the trek galaxy have or can easily create weapons that can destroy planets and suns but if you start whacking at ppl with that sort of fire power you are likely to end up getting the same done to you.

Look at the styles of guns in SW, dudes sitting in them shooting them at ftr craft, and other guys sitting in retardedly large turrets firing broadsides like its some WW2 fucking carrier or battleship. EVEN in our day and age we use computer guided chain guns to deal with ftr craft and guided missiles.

SW tech looks like it stalled at the WW2 type of combat (although with lasers) and instead of progressing and modernising it just stagnated........THAT is why ppl like you are fixated on these noncanon figures for the star destroyer weapons ect, its because ion your hearts you can see just how stagnant and stalled the tech is in SW but you are unwilling to admit it.


.

[Batman]

Within minutes of the omega molicule showing up on sensors janeway had tuvok and harry refit a photon torp with a warhead capable of popping a planet or sun.........a lot faster than needing to build a deathstar lol...

And yet no devastated worlds or stars during the Dominion War

What kind of a dumb cunt are you?, the fed is not abot to start poping suns and planets killing billions of ppl due to being fluffy and the dominion was all about domination and had throw away soldiers so they did not give a fuck about losses.

Is it me or is someone whining 'writer's intent' there? The Feds were fighting for their Valendamned survival. Nevermind that you COMPLETELY FAILED to show the Feds actually HAVE that kind of technology, you just blithely CLAIMED they did without showing any actual EVIDENCE.

Not only that but do you remember the cold war?, do you remember how the super powers bumped heads using conventional weapons but never resorted to nuking the fuck out of the entire planet...summat like that is easy to remember pal.

Which is unfortunately for you completely irrelevant.

The fact is that ALL of the larger powers in the trek galaxy have or can easily create weapons that can destroy planets and suns but if you start whacking at ppl with that sort of fire power you are likely to end up getting the same done to you.

Evidence, retard.

Look at the styles of guns in SW, dudes sitting in them shooting them at ftr craft, and other guys sitting in retardedly large turrets firing broadsides like its some WW2 fucking carrier or battleship.

Yeah. Gun that were meant to shoot at CAPITAL SHIPS actually being big. Stupid of them.
I know you're a moron but have you actually WATCHED ANH?

EVEN in our day and age we use computer guided chain guns to deal with ftr craft and guided missiles.

No, we do NOT. The US and associated powers use GATLING CANNON to do so and those are atr best mediocre at the task. The TLs on the Death Star were meant to deal with CAPITAL SHIPS. THEY FREAKING SAID SO IN THE MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SW tech looks like it stalled at the WW2 type of combat (although with lasers) and instead of progressing and modernising it just stagnated

7 figure c stardrive speeds, 4 figure c sublight accelerations, GT level firepower on a Clone Wars era troop transport. yep, definitely low tech.

........THAT is why ppl like you are fixated on these noncanon figures for the star destroyer weapons ect, its because ion your hearts you can see just how stagnant and stalled the tech is in SW but you are unwilling to admit it.

...says the man blithely ignoring official LFL canon policy.

[Luke SW]

Is it me or is someone whining 'writer's intent' there? The Feds were fighting for their Valendamned survival. Nevermind that you COMPLETELY FAILED to show the Feds actually HAVE that kind of technology, you just blithely CLAIMED they did without showing any actual EVIDENCE..

I posted a few direct quotes from the series you blind cunt, there is no higher canon than that.

GT level firepower on a Clone Wars era troop transport. yep, definitely low tech.

Fuck off, SW star destroyers laser firepower is in roughly the Gigawatt-range.......the GT bullshit is a load of noncanon shite given "bullshit canon" status to make butt hurt fanbois happy.

[Batman]

Is it me or is someone whining 'writer's intent' there? The Feds were fighting for their Valendamned survival. Nevermind that you COMPLETELY FAILED to show the Feds actually HAVE that kind of technology, you just blithely CLAIMED they did without showing any actual EVIDENCE..

I posted a few direct quotes from the series you blind cunt, there is no higher canon than that.

Indeed. There is no higher canon for the characters SAYING THAT. You will now show evidence for them actually being CORRECT.
Actually, you will just engage in a lot of handwaving and excuses (presupposing you're actually smart enough to understand you NEED to do that and not just delusional enough to believe you actually have a case).

GT level firepower on a Clone Wars era troop transport. yep, definitely low tech.

Fuck off, SW star destroyers laser firepower is in roughly the Gigawatt-range.......the GT bullshit is a load of noncanon shite given "bullshit canon" status to make butt hurt fanbois happy.

Canon source. Several orders of magnitude LESS than what you get from downscaling from DS1. You lose. You don't like the rules this game is played by-DON'T PLAY.

[Luke SW]

Actually, you will just engage in a lot of handwaving and excuses (presupposing you're actually smart enough to understand you NEED to do that and not just delusional enough to believe you actually have a case)..

YOU.

You have a book published long before the movie was made and that has not even been given true canon status and is dismissed as utter fallacy by a great deal of SW fans as well as all ST fans. A canon tier system thats only intent is to keep but hurt fanbois happy and spending money on the franchise....though they are way too obsessed and stupid to see it.

Or you have bullshit in bullshit out poorly scaled math from the DS1.




ME.
I have direct quotes from the only canon worth the name, as well of examples of episodes and movies of them being able to ignite dead suns (DS9: cannot remember the episode name), and create and ultimatly destroy entire planets with a mere torpedo (genesis devise in the wrath of khan), also the ability to destroy a sun (star trek the next generation:Half a Life) with modified photon torpedoes.

Along with dozens of other true canon examples like the torp in "generations", and the device the founder tried to use to destroy the bajoran sun.



Simply put you have speculation, the need to use non or redefined canon material and a lot of absurd bullshit in bullshit out math.

[Batman]

Actually, you will just engage in a lot of handwaving and excuses (presupposing you're actually smart enough to understand you NEED to do that and not just delusional enough to believe you actually have a case)..

YOU.
You have a book published long before the movie was made

I trust I need not continue. Oh I absolutely WILL but I trust that shows just how credible a debater Luke SW is right there

and that has not even been given true canon status

Blatant lie.

and is dismissed as utter fallacy by a great deal of SW fans as well as all ST fans.

I couldn't possibly care less what the FANS want. Personally, I think the EU would be a massively better place if a lot of it were thrown out (and I never even ran into KT, I got disgusted with it long before that). Doesn't change the fact that it IS canon.

A canon tier system thats only intent is to keep but hurt fanbois happy and spending money on the franchise....though they are way too obsessed and stupid to see it

A canon tier system that is canon regardless, whatever the reason WHY it is. You lose. The Wars EU is in.

Or you have bullshit in bullshit out poorly scaled math from the DS1.

Prove it fuckface. Do the math.

]
I have direct quotes from the only canon worth the name, as well of examples of episodes and movies of them being able to ignite dead suns (DS9: cannot remember the episode name),

i.e., you have nada,

and create and ultimatly destroy entire planets with a mere torpedo(genesis devise in the wrath of khan)

Except creating a planet out of a nebula is a net NEGATIVE energy event (massively so), and the only person who knows how to make the blasted thin WORK is sort of dead. Lost technology.

, also the ability to destroy a sun (star trek the next generation:Half a Life) with modified photon torpedoes.

Blatant lie. The torpedoes were to SOMEHOW restart the 'helium fusion' in the sun in question, nothing more.

[DrStrangelove]

Snip [borat]RETARDATION!!!![/borat]

The Dominion was fighting to keep all alpha quadrant species from expanding into the gamma quadrant. By your logic they should have whipped out a planet/star killing superweapons and ended the threat of of the solids for good. However they didn't, and since we know the Dominion isn't adverse to genocide, the only logical conclusion is they couldn't. Since the Dominion was supposed to be technologically equivalent or superior to the UFP your argument fails.

[Luke SW]

Blatant lie. The torpedoes were to SOMEHOW restart the 'helium fusion' in the sun in question, nothing more.

Ok you stupid cunt, the fact is YES they were trying to restart the stars helium fusion..A FAR MORE DIFFICULT THING THAN BLOWING IT UP.

Instead the effect was yes A SUPERNOVA, they blew the fucker up.


BLOWING PLANETS OR SUNS UP IN TREK IS EASY ITS BASIC, THEY HAVE MOVED ONTO REIGNITING SUNS ECT NOW.

RETARD.

[Luke SW]

Wow Lukeskydouchebag is here too? Considering that this inbred retard is an obvious Trektroll TM. It would probably be wise to run an IP check and hit it with the banhammer.

If you cannot beat em ban em?..

Well i suppose needing to create a "bullshit canon" alternate universe so SW tech did not suck has rubbed off on you guys, and now you have your own little bullshit forum you can ban anybody who does not share your noncanon views .............loser.

[Formless]

Blatant lie. The torpedoes were to SOMEHOW restart the 'helium fusion' in the sun in question, nothing more.

Ok you stupid cunt, the fact is YES they were trying to restart the stars helium fusion..A FAR MORE DIFFICULT THING THAN BLOWING IT UP.

Instead the effect was yes A SUPERNOVA, they blew the fucker up.


BLOWING PLANETS OR SUNS UP IN TREK IS EASY ITS BASIC, THEY HAVE MOVED ONTO REIGNITING SUNS ECT NOW.

RETARD.

Bullshit. Once more you pull a claim out of your ass without backing it up.

If you cannot beat em ban em?..

If you get banned, it'll be because you've got too many rocks in your skull and not enough neural tissue such that debating you is a waste of bandwidth. Not because you are special or because we have some ax to grind with regards to Trek.

[Luke SW]

Bullshit. Once more you pull a claim out of your ass without backing it up.

Professor Gideon Seyetik reignites a dead star (Epsilon 119) you stupid fuck (DS9: "Second Sight").

Earlier attempts by the enterprose to revive a dying sun resuted in a supernova (TNG: Half a Life).

So no i pulled nothing out of my ass i pulled it from DIRECT AND INDISPUTABLE verbal and visual evidence from the fucking series you prick, unlike your bullshit it is NOT speculation or based on a childrens book written by a fanboi liar.

[Lagmonster]

As a reminder to everyone: We allow flaming, but we expect you to provide actual arguments showing WHY your opponent deserves flaming. Break down their claims and show the flaws. THEN you can call them a moron. Posts that are just flames are worthless.

Also, everyone stop telling everyone else who'll be banned and why. The staff is surprisingly competent and surprisingly short-tempered, so we won't fail to act if it's necessary.

[Vympel]

Professor Gideon Seyetik reignites a dead star (Epsilon 119) you stupid fuck (DS9: "Second Sight").

Earlier attempts by the enterprose to revive a dying sun resuted in a supernova (TNG: Half a Life).

So no i pulled nothing out of my ass i pulled it from DIRECT AND INDISPUTABLE verbal and visual evidence from the fucking series you prick, unlike your bullshit it is NOT speculation or based on a childrens book written by a fanboi liar.

Yes, you did, you sniveling moron. You are engaging in a leap in logic. The ability to "revive a dying star" has fuck all to do with your claim that blowing up planets or suns in Star Trek is easy or basic. In both of the circumstances you cite there is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that their half-assed accidents are actually repeatable, let alone a viable military tactic against any and all stars - let alone planets.