Post Invasion Ethics & Morality

[Baffalo]

It has been clearly established that the Empire would win any attempt at a genuine invasion of the Federation. That much has been established for quite some time. My question is, in a post invasion Federation, what will become of the moral high horses that the Federation has built for itself to justify its actions? What will happen to their society of only working to better oneself when they discover they can work hard and make their own lives better without having to share with everyone else? What will become of the various outposts watching 'primitive' civilizations, such as the Mintakens?

Thoughts? If this has been covered in another thread or somewhere else, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

[Havok]

The question I always have about these threads is why would the Empire even bother invading the Milky Way of the Federation? There is no reward for occupying the MW. (Other than resources, which the Empire seems to be in no shortage of) Even if they did "invade", literally, a few ships from the Empire could subjugate the whole of the Federation, The Romulan Empire, The Klingon Empire, The Dominion, Borg Space etc., etc..

Basically, The Empire would say, do what we tell you when we tell you or else, otherwise, do what you want. There doesn't seem to be any reason for them to do anything else.

[Crossroads Inc.]

By writers fiat there is no WHY,

We don't have to discuss it, the Empire DID invade, they DID win, no debating it... For the purpose of this thread we are simply going to accept that and move on. The rest of the thread is now dedicated to discussing the aftermath.

[Baffalo]

By writers fiat there is no WHY,

We don't have to discuss it, the Empire DID invade, they DID win, no debating it... For the purpose of this thread we are simply going to accept that and move on. The rest of the thread is now dedicated to discussing the aftermath.

I don't know if it's the avatar or the way he said it, but he sounds like a British gentleman explaining why the British Empire just conquered a piece of worthless territory on the other side of the planet. But yes, for the purposes of this thread, the Empire has conquered the Federation, and now it's time to clean up the mess.

I think I'll get the conversation going by supposing about the government. Most invading governments try to find loyal members of the former government to put into power, since usually they have ambitions that can be easily controlled, and they also have experience that helps ease the transition until personnel from the invading empire can take over those positions.

So, who would be the new President, or Commander in Chief of Starfleet, after the Empire takes over? Will they keep the government in Paris and Starfleet in San Francisco? Or will they move it to another location, either another city or one built from scratch, or will they move the capital to a completely different planet? I'm willing to bet they'll stay on Earth, but whether they remain in France or not is up for debate. If they wanted to put the capital in the center of a large population, they might move the capital to China or India. Or they might go for isolation, and might move to the American Midwest. Thoughts?

[Samuel]

The question I always have about these threads is why would the Empire even bother invading the Milky Way of the Federation? There is no reward for occupying the MW. (Other than resources, which the Empire seems to be in no shortage of) Even if they did "invade", literally, a few ships from the Empire could subjugate the whole of the Federation, The Romulan Empire, The Klingon Empire, The Dominion, Borg Space etc., etc..

Basically, The Empire would say, do what we tell you when we tell you or else, otherwise, do what you want. There doesn't seem to be any reason for them to do anything else.

Well, they get to have another branch of the human race that evolved locally and hence a mystery, space were the laws of physics go out of whack, powerful alien beings you can shake down, fluidic space (what the heck is it?) and a nice way to show the taxpayers that their dollars are at work. Who doesn't like a nice quick and cheap campaign- the whole feel good experience?

My guess is that the Empire will use the specific arm for getting reluctant planets into compliance in order to effect these changes- I think that is the job of COMPRAR. They don't mess around with local politics more than necesary and so capitals are probably not going to change. The outposts are going to be dismantled and sectors are going to be drawn up and extraction rights given. The Prime Directive is dead and the looting and industrialization will begin. This could be like the Corporate Sector Authority on a large scale.

[Darth Hoth]

The Empire has a policy of not needlessly interfering with local governments, unless there is open rebellion or else serious trouble. They do, however, make allowances for systems that are universally repulsive to human sensibilities (e.g., the Yevetha, which were basically Meiji Japan plus a couple of orders of magnitude, and were promptly smacked down). One wonders how they would respond to the Federation's essentially Communist system; some Imperial systems do host command economies with massive social engineering and little personal freedom (e.g., Metalorn), so perhaps they might tolerate it as a local cultural artefact. If so, they would probably leave the Federation in control, after a collaborationist government has been installed, and not overtly work to depose it. Some ideological reschooling would probably happen, of course; at a minimum, COMPNOR facilities would be set up to revise the local school curriculum, streamline trade law into accordance with Galactic Civilisation, and the like, and there would be active recruitment into Imperial organisations such as SAGroup.

Of course, the major corporations are likely to lobby for the introduction of a free market economy, which no doubt the majority of the people will also come to desire, once they are familiarised with its beneficial effects. This is probably inevitable at some point if Imperial technology is to be introduced on a wider scale. If so, the Federation's political and economic system will become a hindrance, and either be put under pressure to reform or replaced with some alternative government.

Somehow, I like the idea of putting in the Maquis as collaborators to lord over the sanctimonious pacifists . . .

[The Romulan Republic]

Obviously the Federation's moral code will mean very little to the Empire, which routinely exploits less developed worlds. I definitely agree that the Prime Directive will not be respected. The question is, how does the Federation respond? This will dictate what government is like under the Empire.

If the Federation plays ball like a good little puppet state, they may be granted some freedoms and independence (if under the overall control of an Imperial Moff). However, I've noticed that Star Fleet captains can be pretty damn stubborn. Even if you get nine out of ten to accept the Empire's rule, you'll still have one out of ten who insist on continuing to fight (I recall at least one episode where Picard was prepared to blow his ship up to stop an alien experiment on the crew. Likewise with Captain Janeway). Obviously, this will lead to reprisals. It will also probably lead to a good deal of Federation collaboration with the Empire from those who don't want to suffer such reprisals. Less courageous and stubborn members of Star Fleet will likely be breaking whatever moral code they held in the name of minimizing casualties and maintaining peace. "Nessissary evils" will be justified in the name of preventing Imperial retribution.

In short, the Federation will be forced to adopt Imperial morals, such as they are, to survive. Realistically, even any resistors will probably experience this to an extent. If terrorist tactics are viewed as the only viable means of resistance, Star Fleet officers on the other side will also be finding themselves taking an "ends justify the means" approach. In short, "flexible" morality all around.

As for how the economic situation would change, the more Communist approach of the Federation might be dead, and Kuat/the Corporate Sector Authority, etc will move in. However, it won't be free capitalism by a long shot. The Empire is know for nationalizing companies, among other things.

I'm particularily curious as to how the Vulcans and Section 31 will respond. Both are organizations that have stood strongly behind the Federation (Section 31s whole purpose is to clandestinely defend it). However, they may be the strongest supporters of the new Imperial regime (the Vulcans because they find it "logical" to minimize casualties by collaboration, and Section 31 to preserve the Federation, as long as they can get a comparatively favorable puppet state arrangement). The Vulcans however are a toss-up to me because of the frequent discrimination against aliens under the Empire (we can quibble about weather Palpatine was a racist, but a lot of his subordinates appear to have been regardless).

[The Romulan Republic]

The Empire has a policy of not needlessly interfering with local governments, unless there is open rebellion or else serious trouble. They do, however, make allowances for systems that are universally repulsive to human sensibilities (e.g., the Yevetha, which were basically Meiji Japan plus a couple of orders of magnitude, and were promptly smacked down). One wonders how they would respond to the Federation's essentially Communist system; some Imperial systems do host command economies with massive social engineering and little personal freedom (e.g., Metalorn), so perhaps they might tolerate it as a local cultural artefact.

They might dispose of it and let some pro-Imperial corporations in, or they may keep it and simply change the government at the top.

However, if you are attempting to suggest that the Federation's "Communist" system is "universally repulsive to human sensibilities" you are sadly mistaken. Especially since their is no evidence whatsoever of widespread oppression or brutality under the Federation. Whatever you think of the Federation, it is not Stalinist Russia.

Somehow, I like the idea of putting in the Maquis as collaborators to lord over the sanctimonious pacifists . . .

The Marquis would have little enough political clout under the Empire if they even survive as a political organization. The result would likely be the Marqui's interests being given lower priority to some Star Wars corporation that wanted their worlds, with the same result as when their colonies were traded to the Cardassians. They fought and died against the Dominion, and they will fight and die against the Empire. You might say the odds are hopeless, but that didn't stop them against the Dominion.

[Darth Hoth]

They might dispose of it and let some pro-Imperial corporations in, or they may keep it and simply change the government at the top.

However, if you are attempting to suggest that the Federation's "Communist" system is "universally repulsive to human sensibilities" you are sadly mistaken. Especially since their is no evidence whatsoever of widespread oppression or brutality under the Federation. Whatever you think of the Federation, it is not Stalinist Russia.

I do not feel like taking up this debate again, so I will just say that in order to change human nature, you need to be a lot more control-freak of a government than anything we have seen on Earth, with massive social or perhaps even genetic engineering. This has been debated before; in order for the Federation to work as utopially as it is shown, they need control on the level of what the Alliance attempted in Serenity. Whether this is "better" or "worse" than a traditional, brutally oppressive regime is up to the individual viewer to judge. In any case, the Imperials will not like it, coming as they do from the traditionally lolbertarian Star Wars galaxy.

The Marquis would have little enough political clout under the Empire if they even survive as a political organization. The result would likely be the Marqui's interests being given lower priority to some Star Wars corporation that wanted their worlds, with the same result as when their colonies were traded to the Cardassians. They fought and died against the Dominion, and they will fight and die against the Empire. You might say the odds are hopeless, but that didn't stop them against the Dominion.

Well, that was more wish-fulfilment on my part. I do not think they would actually do that; it is usually easier to manipulate established political structures, and even if not inserting their own military government would be a better option.

[Havok]

This is silly. "Do what we say or else." That is it. Cut and dry. There is ZERO resistance the MW can offer that is going to even breach the shields of an Imperial Shuttle, let alone an invading fleet.

After a ship the size of the Tantive V one shots a few Sovereigns, some Negh'Vars, a fleet of Borg Cubes etc., etc. the AQ will get the message and surrender, then it will be run just like any other Imperial territory.

Like Hoth said, the Empire doesn't need to tell you what to do and they don't need to run your day to day lives, but when they say jump you say how high. Like I said, there is nothing but natural resources that the Empire is going to even want from the MW besides obedience. Even things like fluidic space present nothing of great interest (outside of the scientific interest of the place itself) as the technology there is fucking millennia behind the Empire.

[The Romulan Republic]

They might dispose of it and let some pro-Imperial corporations in, or they may keep it and simply change the government at the top.

However, if you are attempting to suggest that the Federation's "Communist" system is "universally repulsive to human sensibilities" you are sadly mistaken. Especially since their is no evidence whatsoever of widespread oppression or brutality under the Federation. Whatever you think of the Federation, it is not Stalinist Russia.

I do not feel like taking up this debate again, so I will just say that in order to change human nature, you need to be a lot more control-freak of a government than anything we have seen on Earth, with massive social or perhaps even genetic engineering. This has been debated before; in order for the Federation to work as utopially as it is shown, they need control on the level of what the Alliance attempted in Serenity. Whether this is "better" or "worse" than a traditional, brutally oppressive regime is up to the individual viewer to judge. In any case, the Imperials will not like it, coming as they do from the traditionally lolbertarian Star Wars galaxy.

Propaganda from birth I can buy. Any form of oppression beyond that, I will demand canon evidence. And if you cannot give it, I will expect an immediate concession.

Also, the Star Wars Galaxy is Libertarian? It is not unknown for the Empire to nationalize a company by any means.

The Marquis would have little enough political clout under the Empire if they even survive as a political organization. The result would likely be the Marqui's interests being given lower priority to some Star Wars corporation that wanted their worlds, with the same result as when their colonies were traded to the Cardassians. They fought and died against the Dominion, and they will fight and die against the Empire. You might say the odds are hopeless, but that didn't stop them against the Dominion.

Well, that was more wish-fulfilment on my part. I do not think they would actually do that; it is usually easier to manipulate established political structures, and even if not inserting their own military government would be a better option.

Absolutely. If anything, I think the Marquis will basically be the ones to provoke reprisals by telling the Empire to shove a truce where the sun don't shine. As before, the most likely collaborators might be among the ranks of the Vulcans and Section 31, as well as the civilian political establishment.

Actually, this thread has given me an idea for a fan fic about Marquis survivors fighting a puppet government run by Section 31.

[The Romulan Republic]

This is silly. "Do what we say or else." That is it. Cut and dry. There is ZERO resistance the MW can offer that is going to even breach the shields of an Imperial Shuttle, let alone an invading fleet.

While I get the point perfectly well, no statistic I've heard convinces me that this is anything but hyperbole. A Star Destroyer might survive a fleet lobbing off photon torpedos, but a shuttle? Next I suppose you'll argue that a probe droid could take down Deep Space 9.

[Ghost Rider]

This is silly. "Do what we say or else." That is it. Cut and dry. There is ZERO resistance the MW can offer that is going to even breach the shields of an Imperial Shuttle, let alone an invading fleet.

While I get the point perfectly well, no statistic I've heard convinces me that this is anything but hyperbole. A Star Destroyer might survive a fleet lobbing off photon torpedos, but a shuttle? Next I suppose you'll argue that a probe droid could take down Deep Space 9.

Perhaps not a shuttle, but given Mike has shown the power that the Slave-1 has will outdo a great many Federation related craft of sizes far larger. So really, drop it and move the fuck on.

[Darth Hoth]

Propaganda from birth I can buy. Any form of oppression beyond that, I will demand canon evidence. And if you cannot give it, I will expect an immediate concession.

I do not know what mechanism they use to make the people accept their society. All I know is that the general attitude displayed runs counter to basic human nature, which must thus be artificially suppressed in some way, the exact means of which one can only speculate. The most common explanation among fans appear to be Brave New World-style social engineering; it is in my opinion the most plausible. But we cannot say what they use with any certainty, as it is never shown onscreen. All we see is some of the consequences.

Also, the Star Wars Galaxy is Libertarian? It is not unknown for the Empire to nationalize a company by any means.

It is indeed not; note that I did say "traditionally". In the Old Republic, as we well know, business ran free and uninhibited. Even in the Empire there is a fair share of anarcho-capitalist polities, and various corporations are noted as owning planets and even whole Sectors of space, though the Imperials employ a lot more control than the Republic did (to the point of nationalising hostile corporations, such as the Trade Fed).

Absolutely. If anything, I think the Marquis will basically be the ones to provoke reprisals by telling the Empire to shove a truce where the sun don't shine. As before, the most likely collaborators might be among the ranks of the Vulcans and Section 31, as well as the civilian political establishment.

Probably, at that.

Actually, this thread has given me an idea for a fan fic about Marquis survivors fighting a puppet government run by Section 31.

Could be fun, if you write it.

[Havok]

Are the Marquis even an organization anymore? I though that after the Cardassians left Bajor, and after the Federation/Romulan/Klingon alliance, plus the Dominion itself, ass raped the Cardassian Empire the Marquis disbanded? I vaguely remember something being said about being wiped out before that actually.

[The Romulan Republic]

Are the Marquis even an organization anymore? I though that after the Cardassians left Bajor, and after the Federation/Romulan/Klingon alliance, plus the Dominion itself, ass raped the Cardassian Empire the Marquis disbanded? I vaguely remember something being said about being wiped out before that actually.

The Marquis never had anything to do with liberating Bajor. The Bajoran freedom fighters were pre-Marquis.

The Marquis were pissed over some colonies being traded to the Dominion in a treaty, and did fairly well against the Cardassians until the Dominion took them over. At that point, the Dominion more or less destroyed the Marquis, though a few survived (notably the ones on Voyager and presumably those in Federation prisons).

[Bounty]

Why are French noblemen fighting in Trekverse?

I do not know what mechanism they use to make the people accept their society. All I know is that the general attitude displayed runs counter to basic human nature, which must thus be artificially suppressed in some way, the exact means of which one can only speculate.

"General attitude"? Is this about this supposed lack of a free market again? You don't think people would be open to a system that guarantees them food, shelter, safety and an education, while leaving them free to pursue other interests provided they find someone who pays for them - like any one of the Federation members with a capitalist economic system?

[Baffalo]

Why are French noblemen fighting in Trekverse?

I do not know what mechanism they use to make the people accept their society. All I know is that the general attitude displayed runs counter to basic human nature, which must thus be artificially suppressed in some way, the exact means of which one can only speculate.

"General attitude"? Is this about this supposed lack of a free market again? You don't think people would be open to a system that guarantees them food, shelter, safety and an education, while leaving them free to pursue other interests provided they find someone who pays for them - like any one of the Federation members with a capitalist economic system?

I must admit, facing the possibility of having to move due to lack of funding, the thought of free housing, food, and clothing is very appealing. Throw in a few other things, such as education and healthcare, and you have a very good incentive. The costs, however, must be huge, since we have similar programs in place today in most countries, yet we can't cover everyone. Unless the people of Star Trek are being taxed out of their ever-loving minds, I don't know how they afford it.

And no, I don't believe in the no-money Trek philosophy. I know in canon Trek it was long established that there is no money, but if there is no money, then how can people like Jean-Luc Picard stuff rare artifacts and such in his office, rather than have them sent off to a museum? Sure there might be ration cards or something, or something that takes the place of money, but you can't eliminate money entirely. There's some sort of reward system, there has to be. But I digress.

From the sounds of it, the Empire will have a laze fair (sp?) style of governing, more concerned that Imperial law is upheld rather than telling the individual people how to run their lives. I imagine a few species might openly rebel (Klingons for sure), and that a few might mysteriously go missing afterwords (again, Klingons), but otherwise I think that the transition might be fairly smooth... for a while...

[Bounty]

The costs, however, must be huge, since we have similar programs in place today in most countries, yet we can't cover everyone.

Once the infrastructure is set up you can shave a shitload of cost of production through solar power and replicators. Plus you have the whole of Starfleet who seem to be working largely for room & board.

As for money, I think Picard and Jake's statements are being taken to literal. Remember that when Picard said the Federation "didn't work for money", he was trying to distract a very uncomfortable woman who had just been whisked aboard a future starship overrun by vampire zombies from space - I doubt he'd go into a detailed overview of the Federation's economic system. "No money" can just as easily mean that the Federation has set up a basic framework for essential goods and services - medicine, food, education, sciences, spacecraft production - that is entirely divorced from the private and entirely optional market - the mere existence of central banks on Federation member worlds proves as much.

laze fair

Laissez-faire.

[Baffalo]

The costs, however, must be huge, since we have similar programs in place today in most countries, yet we can't cover everyone.

Once the infrastructure is set up you can shave a shitload of cost of production through solar power and replicators. Plus you have the whole of Starfleet who seem to be working largely for room & board.

As for money, I think Picard and Jake's statements are being taken to literal. Remember that when Picard said the Federation "didn't work for money", he was trying to distract a very uncomfortable woman who had just been whisked aboard a future starship overrun by vampire zombies from space - I doubt he'd go into a detailed overview of the Federation's economic system. "No money" can just as easily mean that the Federation has set up a basic framework for essential goods and services - medicine, food, education, sciences, spacecraft production - that is entirely divorced from the private and entirely optional market - the mere existence of central banks on Federation member worlds proves as much.

Hmm... that makes sense in a way. Replicators became available sometime between The Undiscovered Country and The Next Generation. Their whole outlook on things changes during that time as well... so perhaps replicators allowed them to enjoy the lifestyle they do in The Next Generation.

I have to wonder though... if replicators can take blocks of basic elements and form them into what we desire, doesn't that mean it could work the other way around? Take a slab of raw ore and extract the useful elements out? You'd still have to physically transport the raw ore, but between replicators and mining droids, you could easily start a profitable mine in the Alpha Quadrant... and if you can get a positive return on any investment, it makes quite a bit of sense.

This is silly. "Do what we say or else." That is it. Cut and dry. There is ZERO resistance the MW can offer that is going to even breach the shields of an Imperial Shuttle, let alone an invading fleet.

While I get the point perfectly well, no statistic I've heard convinces me that this is anything but hyperbole. A Star Destroyer might survive a fleet lobbing off photon torpedos, but a shuttle? Next I suppose you'll argue that a probe droid could take down Deep Space 9.

I think he was being rhetorical. Sure small ships might get destroyed (especially TIE fighters during the initial invasion, being without shields and all), but the big ships? I doubt it. We've gone over stuff like this before.

Laissez-faire.

Yes, thank you.

[Samuel]

I must admit, facing the possibility of having to move due to lack of funding, the thought of free housing, food, and clothing is very appealing. Throw in a few other things, such as education and healthcare, and you have a very good incentive. The costs, however, must be huge, since we have similar programs in place today in most countries, yet we can't cover everyone. Unless the people of Star Trek are being taxed out of their ever-loving minds, I don't know how they afford it.

Presumably they are much richer than we are now so the basics are a smaller slice of total costs. I always thought the reason that the Feds were so indoctrinated is that they are very parochial- the government owns all the ships so individuals never leave their homeworld unless they join the fleet.

Hmm... that makes sense in a way. Replicators became available sometime between The Undiscovered Country and The Next Generation. Their whole outlook on things changes during that time as well... so perhaps replicators allowed them to enjoy the lifestyle they do in The Next Generation.

I have to wonder though... if replicators can take blocks of basic elements and form them into what we desire, doesn't that mean it could work the other way around? Take a slab of raw ore and extract the useful elements out? You'd still have to physically transport the raw ore, but between replicators and mining droids, you could easily start a profitable mine in the Alpha Quadrant... and if you can get a positive return on any investment, it makes quite a bit of sense.

Replicators have limits. The list of things they cannot replicate is as long as my arm and they still require raw materials and energy to function.

I don't know if they could use the replicator to simply refine ore- replicators probably use transporter technology and it seems to have problems with certain kinds of rocks.

(especially TIE fighters during the initial invasion, being without shields and all),

TIEs have shields!

[Baffalo]

TIEs have shields!

I wasn't sure if we were using the new TIE Defenders or one of the older models, like the TIE Interceptor or plain TIE. Thanks for the clarification.

[Bounty]

I don't know if they could use the replicator to simply refine ore- replicators probably use transporter technology and it seems to have problems with certain kinds of rocks.

To beam through, and that's always been called a sensor problem ("can't lock on"), not an inherent problem with transporter technology. Replicators have been used to recycle watches (Yeah of Hell"), so if the rocks are broken down to something manageable first there's no reasinb you can't feed them into a replicator-based refinery.

Replicators have limits. The list of things they cannot replicate is as long as my arm and they still require raw materials and energy to function.

Replicators are like cows. They don't create something from nothing, but they can take something that is useless to the end user - raw materials - and turn it into something useful - food or parts. They simplify a great many things; with access to a replicator system you don't need to grow, sort, store and ship a gazillion foodstuffs, you just pack off blocks of base material wholesale and let the machine handle its conversion into something palatable. You don't need to set up factories off-world with moulds and smelting plants, you just feed chunks of metal in the device and take out finished wrenches or watches out the other end.

That's what would make them useful in an economy. With solar powering antimatter production facilities you have the power to run the replicators and run the ships that find and ferry the raw materials. Once that infrastructure is set up it shoudl theoretically keep itself going.

[Darmalus]

TIEs have shields!

I wasn't sure if we were using the new TIE Defenders or one of the older models, like the TIE Interceptor or plain TIE. Thanks for the clarification.

The original TIEs weren't unshielded, but the shields on a fighter server the same purpose that storm trooper armor does. A direct hit is far to powerful to stop, but by giving your fighters a minimum of shielding, you ensure that only direct hits will kill the fighter, forcing the enemy to spend more time and effort on each kill. I remember Darth Wong had an analysis of the movies, and TIEs and X-Wings both died from a single direct hit, TIEs had something that looked like a sheid, and had a roughly even kill ratio, but I saw this on another forum, and my new computer does not have that bookmarked, so I can't directly link it for you.

It seems that it isn't until you get huge or expensive fighters that they have shields strong enough to survive a direct hit by other fighters.

[Baffalo]

TIEs have shields!

I wasn't sure if we were using the new TIE Defenders or one of the older models, like the TIE Interceptor or plain TIE. Thanks for the clarification.

The original TIEs weren't unshielded, but the shields on a fighter server the same purpose that storm trooper armor does. A direct hit is far to powerful to stop, but by giving your fighters a minimum of shielding, you ensure that only direct hits will kill the fighter, forcing the enemy to spend more time and effort on each kill. I remember Darth Wong had an analysis of the movies, and TIEs and X-Wings both died from a single direct hit, TIEs had something that looked like a sheid, and had a roughly even kill ratio, but I saw this on another forum, and my new computer does not have that bookmarked, so I can't directly link it for you.

It seems that it isn't until you get huge or expensive fighters that they have shields strong enough to survive a direct hit by other fighters.

And by the time that happens, you've upgraded to something like a corvette or gunship (not sure which term applies, though I think both). I can understand why it's expensive... most systems can't even afford a squadron, let alone an entire wing. Even if you lose several fighters from a Star Destroyer, you have many more to replace them. Brute force baby

As far as replicators go, I can see their application far beyond the MW. Take several ships with mining droids and replicators and send them to work on the Graveyard of Alderaan... the survivors might not be happy, but with raw materials like that, you could sell the refined ores for a premium and cover most of the costs incurred building the Death Star in the first place. Heh, it's like post-WWI Germany after the defeat... present the losers with a bill for invading and conquering them

Oh and yes, I do know that the Germans were tricked into surrendering their arms and lost the war without it ever touching German soil. Just an analogy.