Imperial energy production in Federation tech

[Sela]

Could the power source used by Star Wars ships be somehow channeled into Federation ships? If so, it'd be pretty awesome to see if they could - like - beam asteroids all the way across space and into ships and stuff like that.

Is there any way to know whether or not the Empire is capable of that sort of compatibility work?

[Ender]

If they built the system from the ground up to handle that kind of power? It is possible. If you mean just swap out reactors, no. Too many infrastructure changes.

Plus consider that the limitations of trek technology may not come from power. For example, some kind of signal loss may limit transporter range, not power available to it.

[Darth Wong]

Could the power source used by Star Wars ships be somehow channeled into Federation ships? If so, it'd be pretty awesome to see if they could - like - beam asteroids all the way across space and into ships and stuff like that.

Is there any way to know whether or not the Empire is capable of that sort of compatibility work?

Could you channel the power of a nuclear reactor into a Honda Civic? If you do, I can predict a messy outcome.

[Kythnos]

They might have to change a lot to make it work - ST control surfaces have a tendency to explode, so they might not be using "electricity" to power their Tech.

[Ender]

Could the power source used by Star Wars ships be somehow channeled into Federation ships? If so, it'd be pretty awesome to see if they could - like - beam asteroids all the way across space and into ships and stuff like that.

Is there any way to know whether or not the Empire is capable of that sort of compatibility work?

Could you channel the power of a nuclear reactor into a Honda Civic? If you do, I can predict a messy outcome.

Yeah, your mom gets the hots for you, your family starts disappearing, and then you have to help your dad fix the time line without creating a paradox... it is just one heck of a pain in the butt.

[Alyeska]

Even if they had the room in a Trek ship, there is the matter of scale. Lets say the Imperial reactor can run at 1/2 percent increments. Even at minimal power, that reactor is almost certainly going to be producing more power then the power distribution of the ship can handle. As Ender mentioned it would require a ship built from the ground up to support the power source as well as power distribution designed to handle the massive amounts of power. And its quite possible the ship can never get anything more then single digit percentages from this Imperial reactor.

[Darth Wong]

There's also the problem of handling the reactor's fuel input. We couldn't support a Federation M/AM warp core in real-life for many reasons, but one of them would be our inability to contain and supply antimatter to it. Similar, the Federation might be unable to deal with the fuel for a military SW starship reactor. After all, they seem to achieve their absurd power output by keeping their fuel outside real space-time (ie- having imaginary mass numbers). If the Feds can't find a way to supply this type of fuel or contain it, then they can't feed this reactor, never mind using its output for anything.

[Lord Revan]

indeed the main problem here is (note that these numbers aren't meant to realistic but rather to illustrate a point) that if we say that a federation ship's power distrubution systems are rated for 100 watts, but a SW reactor put out 100000 watts you'd at the best case scenario blow all the fuses in your system (and since trek system don't seem to have fuses the results will alot worse (best case scenario, large part of the systems will have to be replaced as they got burned by the massive powersurge)).

there's also the fuel problem Mike mentioned, which isn't a minor one also.

[Alyeska]

Would be interesting to see what a couple of Imperial Engineers could cobble together using just Trek technology. Of course it still might be entirely impossible. Similar to things brought up in the reverse engineering thread. It is entirely likely that Trek just doesn't have the necessary technology base to replicate anything from Hypermatter or other comparable Star Wars power generation.

[Coalition]

I'd settle for swapping out the massive M/AM warp core, and replacing it with Imperial shuttle reactors (or TIE fighter reactors). I'm sure Geordi wouldn't mind having a spare main engine that only fits on one deck.

If the SW ship reactor puts out too much power, use a smaller reactor. From there, you'd have to use the EPS system as some sort of capacitor/battery, bringing the shuttle reactor to 1% to charge up the system, then .5% for a while. It'll add wear and tear to the shuttle reactor, but it would provide the power needed. Or they could turn on more lights, sensors, communications, holodecks, etc to bring up the power consumption.

It'd have to be self-contained, and refueling would be interesting, but being able to draw as much power as a Captain could ever hope for would be nice.

"More power to forward sensors."
"Sir, forward sensors are melting."
"Less power to forward sensors."

[Stark]

Wouldn't it be way less stupid to just attach ST technology to an Imperial ship? Design and build say, transporters to handle the power and put it in an Imperial ship that already has the powerplant and associated systems to produce that power. It's retarded to shoehorn in such an arrangement into a Fed ship just to boost Fed tech with extra power.

[Rochey]

Agreed, I see pretty much no way this would work. Trek ships already have damn all to deal with power surges, I imagine every console on the ship would detonate if you plugged an SW reactor in. They're simply not built to handle such power.

[Lord Revan]

I'd settle for swapping out the massive M/AM warp core, and replacing it with Imperial shuttle reactors (or TIE fighter reactors). I'm sure Geordi wouldn't mind having a spare main engine that only fits on one deck.

If the SW ship reactor puts out too much power, use a smaller reactor. From there, you'd have to use the EPS system as some sort of capacitor/battery, bringing the shuttle reactor to 1% to charge up the system, then .5% for a while. It'll add wear and tear to the shuttle reactor, but it would provide the power needed. Or they could turn on more lights, sensors, communications, holodecks, etc to bring up the power consumption.

It'd have to be self-contained, and refueling would be interesting, but being able to draw as much power as a Captain could ever hope for would be nice.

"More power to forward sensors."
"Sir, forward sensors are melting."
"Less power to forward sensors."

the thing is that there might be (and probably is) more differences between a reactor of a warship and a shuttle craft (or heaven forbid a starfighter) then mere power-output simply due to vasty different needs those ships have, after all the power needs of a passenger frerry and a large warship are different even today.

as Stark said it, it would alot more wiser (and probably easier) to mount ST tech on SW ship then the other way around

[The Romulan Republic]

If you want to put Imperial tech on Fed ships (and you could ask why bother, as far as the reverse is concerned), reactors are not the way to go. You'd probably have to build a whole new design from the ground up, using imperial tech. In which case you might as well just ask "could the Empire build a Star Destroyer in Federation space?"

Might it be possible to swap in certain techs that don't require vastly greater power output or a totally different structure? Two that always come to mind are putting Star Wars armor on the hull, and swapping photon/quantum torpedos for proton torpedos. Presuming of course that Federation hulls can support Star Wars armor, and that the torpedos fly under their own power. Would this be a possible upgrade for Starfleet's backwards little ships?

[Lord Revan]

well I'd assume proton torp (or concussion missile) are not that high energy systems (within similar scale to photon torps (about 2m)), but since those are single use (fire a torp and if it isn't a missfire or miss the target and it will explode) weapons (well not the launchers but the warheads are) and you would hit the same problems as with reactor input but with ordanence rather then fuel, since it probably not possible to do proton torps without imp tech. (and the torps would be freighter/startfighter ones not those minibuss sized the Acclamators use, so the upgrade wouldn't be so massive).

as for armor I frankly don't enough about SW armor or ST full strenght to say yes or no.

[Cri_Havoc]

Okay, the way I see it, the outlets in my house still run off of a nuclear power plant. We have the ability to regulate power from a large power source to suit particular needs, so why wouldn't you be able to do likewise running off an Imperial power source? Yes, there are usually explosions and sparks flying whenever they plug the enterprise into something with way too much power, but the ship was designed around a particular engine. If they weren't just jury-rigging, I see it as being quite feasible. (Just answering to the whole "Federation can't handle that much power" problem. Never mind that the starfleet engineers would have to scratch their heads a good while to figure out where the on switch is.) Heck, slap Boba Fett's Slave I reactor in, and a federation ship would have all the power it could possibly want, most likely.

Is doing something like this really going to even the odds? Probably not.

[Darth Wong]

Okay, the way I see it, the outlets in my house still run off of a nuclear power plant.

No, they run off an extremely complex and technologically sophisticated power transmission system that sits between you and the nuclear power plant. Built by people with the same technological base as the people who built the nuclear power plant.

[Davey]

Not to mention the voltage and the current is stepped down considerably for home use, as well as distributed through an entire power grid. There are many other people on that grid, as well as the city itself (think about your street lights, public transit, water pumps, and the energy lost over the distance.) The power is distributed among them and depending on where you live, feeding commercial or even industrial applications. To get an idea of how carefully power must be metered out, look at the back of your computer. You'll see a tiny switch labelled "120v -- 220v." An excess of a mere 100 volts will fry your computer like an egg, and the current coming out of the wall is something like what, maybe twelve amps? That's nothing compared to what commercial power generation is churning out in a day.

My guess is that Star Trek engines, because they seem to like to blow up, malfunction, and go critical at the most inconvenient times, are given limits and a wide safety factor to prevent them from being overloaded, so when Kirk urges Scotty for more power, he is merely exploiting the extra performance in the safety factor.

[Count Chocula]

If ST were to, say use Imperial reactors in existing starships, they'd still only have the same power distribution available to systems that they have with the warp drive, maybe a little bit more. Heck, you could probably put another warp core into a Galaxy class by cutting the luxo-barge crew quarters' space, and according to the TNG Encyclopedia the Galaxy class were built with large spaces for future expansion. To actually USE the juice, though, Fed engineers would need dramatically higher capacity power conduits. My utility company could supply me 1,000 Amps if needed from the local transformer, but my breakers would all open if I tried to draw that much power.

What might be more amusing would be someone like, say, Lando Calrissian falling in love with the Constitution class' esthetics and building a visual duplicate, using Star Wars technology. Heck, the Delta Flyer might make a dandy little runabout with SW tech.

[The Romulan Republic]

well I'd assume proton torp (or concussion missile) are not that high energy systems (within similar scale to photon torps (about 2m)), but since those are single use (fire a torp and if it isn't a missfire or miss the target and it will explode) weapons (well not the launchers but the warheads are) and you would hit the same problems as with reactor input but with ordanence rather then fuel, since it probably not possible to do proton torps without imp tech. (and the torps would be freighter/startfighter ones not those minibuss sized the Acclamators use, so the upgrade wouldn't be so massive).

Well I'm talking about putting torps on a Trek ship, not nessissarily a Trek faction building them from scratch. That would likely be impossible, I agree.

as for armor I frankly don't enough about SW armor or ST full strenght to say yes or no.

I'm thinking that armor has been shown to greatly increase the survivability of Trek ships (their shields don't seem that reliable), so it would be a good upgrade to put Wars armor on a Trek design. I just don't know if a Fed. ship could support the armor, since they seem to need structural integrity fields just to hold together at warp, and the added weight might be a problem on the ground. Are their any sources of information at all on Star Wars armor?

[Lord Revan]

well I'd assume proton torp (or concussion missile) are not that high energy systems (within similar scale to photon torps (about 2m)), but since those are single use (fire a torp and if it isn't a missfire or miss the target and it will explode) weapons (well not the launchers but the warheads are) and you would hit the same problems as with reactor input but with ordanence rather then fuel, since it probably not possible to do proton torps without imp tech. (and the torps would be freighter/startfighter ones not those minibuss sized the Acclamators use, so the upgrade wouldn't be so massive).

Well I'm talking about putting torps on a Trek ship, not nessissarily a Trek faction building them from scratch. That would likely be impossible, I agree.

well the thing is you can't just throw a proton torp or a concussion missile into a photon torp tube and expect it to work and in case you didn't (or didn't want to) notice, I did point out the major problem of proton torps being single use, lets say you replace all photon torps with Proton torps with warheads of similar physical size, Ent-d carried about 200 warheads IIRC, that gives you 200 shots per ship until you run out of ordanance and have to get more (either by making, stealing or trading, now the first 2 would really hard or impossible for federation personal, third depends on what you plan to use as currency).

while Proton torps of similar physical size to photon torps (about 2m in length or so) would probably be more powerfull they'd probably not be such a boost that it would make any difference due to the extremly limited supply of warheads.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well I'm talking about putting torps on a Trek ship, not nessissarily a Trek faction building them from scratch. That would likely be impossible, I agree.

well the thing is you can't just throw a proton torp or a concussion missile into a photon torp tube and expect it to work

You might have to modify the tubes, but presuming torpedos fly under their own power, it should be possible to make the modifications without major structural alterations. Which was my point. My interest is in weather, hypothetically, it would be possible to upgrade a Trek ship in such a fassion, presuming the resources were available.

and in case you didn't (or didn't want to) notice, I did point out the major problem of proton torps being single use,

Watch what accusations you throw out.

I may have overlooked your point, but I don't believe it was deliberate. I've already said I'm not talking about a Trek faction building them from scratch. Now I'll explicitly clarify that I am aware of the potential difficulties in obtaining such weapons. I was merely asking if such an upgrade was possible, not weather Starfleet would have the resources for it.

lets say you replace all photon torps with Proton torps with warheads of similar physical size, Ent-d carried about 200 warheads IIRC, that gives you 200 shots per ship until you run out of ordanance and have to get more (either by making, stealing or trading, now the first 2 would really hard or impossible for federation personal, third depends on what you plan to use as currency).

I'll concede right now that the Federation would probably have a hard time obtaining or using such weapons. But again, my question was weather it would be possible to upgrade a Fed ship in such a manor, not weather Starfleet would have the resources to do so on their own. If you prefer, let's say the Empire took over the Federation and wanted to upgrade the ships to be worth a damn as anything but museum pieces.

while Proton torps of similar physical size to photon torps (about 2m in length or so) would probably be more powerfull they'd probably not be such a boost that it would make any difference due to the extremly limited supply of warheads.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm saying the Federation could win with such weapons. Let me make something clear: while I do believe they could improve Starfleet's vessel's firepower greatly if obtainable, I recognize that it would be hard to get them in any numbers, Starfleet men would probably not know how to properly handle or maintain them, and that Starfleet would still be severely outmatched anyway. I wanted to clarify that before their were any more misunderstandings about what it is I'm saying here.

[Lord Revan]

I misunderstood your intent then, as for whether such a modification would possible (without total rebuild) depends on something to my knowlage haven't been seen at all in the ST series/movies mean the operating mechanics of a photon torpedo tube, if it's just a tube opening to the exterior then it could be possible to modify it for proton torps or concussion missiles, how ever if there's more complex mechanics in there the thing gets alot more unlikely.

[Cri_Havoc]

Wow, okay, you take me a little too literally, but thanks for making my point for me: obviously my house doesn't actually plug into a nuclear reactor, but like you said, my outlet takes what it needs (and can handle) from the power plant, via a lot of power regulation systems in between. I just sort of figured you'd fill that bit in yourself. But yes, by the similar principle, why can't you have a starship tapping all that it needs from a much more powerful source. And I'm not talking about finding one on the side of the road and plugging it in in an emergency with only 10 minutes to jury-rig something, like we usually find in ST, I'm talking about designing a system (or federation ship) around such a power source. I mean, if you handed a nuclear plant over to the guys at Ford, gave them one outlet with all the power from that station, and told them they could run a car off it, they would do the same thing, just build a system to take the power they need (might not exactly fit in the car, but you get my point. You don't just plug it into your fancy Hybrid and expect it to go vroom.)

[The Romulan Republic]

I misunderstood your intent then, as for whether such a modification would possible (without total rebuild) depends on something to my knowlage haven't been seen at all in the ST series/movies mean the operating mechanics of a photon torpedo tube, if it's just a tube opening to the exterior then it could be possible to modify it for proton torps or concussion missiles, how ever if there's more complex mechanics in there the thing gets alot more unlikely.

What about Spock's memorial service at the end of The Wrath of Kahn? Come to think of it, their are a number of TOS torpedo-loading scenes, but I'm not sure how much was ever shown.

In any case, it was more idle speculation than anything that can be put to the test or proven conclusively. Still, its interesting to think of some possible upgrades that would be feasible without building a new ship from the ground up. In this case, however, I'll concede it depends on the (perhaps faulty) assumption that proton torpedos don't require any highly specialized launcher that would require Star Wars tech.