Fed Communism (split from "Stupid Connie")

[Evil Jerk]

Well, maybe. But now with the war over and all they seem to be heading back to their comfy little communist, inpractical world.

Jealous?

Of the UFP? Are you joking?

And the UFP isn't communist. Just because they don't use money does not automatically make them communist. I'd says it's a combination.

They also don't allow free trade, the state owns everything, there's no private transportation, the govt. has the final say on everything, their military gain special privilidges etc. etc.

Tell me what episode have you seen showing UFP post Dominion War?

My views are from the final eps of DS9, and from what I've heard from the scripts of Nemesis, and the fact that they think Riker is good, proving their stupidity above all else (unless of course we find that his new command is in fact a garbage scow).

[NecronLord]

Well, maybe. But now with the war over and all they seem to be heading back to their comfy little communist, inpractical world.

Jealous?

And the UFP isn't communist. Just because they don't use money does not automatically make them communist. I'd says it's a combination.

Tell me what episode have you seen showing UFP post Dominion War?

Voyager Endgame?
The las epp of DS9
First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Technically they are not marxist. They are however a harline Socialist state.

[Evil Jerk]

Voyager Endgame?

Ah yes, Endgame, ultimate proof that their stupidity continues on..

First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Aren't these during the Dominion War?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I'm pretty sure (correct me if this is a nonexistent term) they would be considered a Democratic Socialist state, since they do have a "council" and a President. I'm assuming that there's some sort of voting process, though possibly limited to "qualified" members of the population, probably those in positions of power.

[Alyeska]

Well, maybe. But now with the war over and all they seem to be heading back to their comfy little communist, inpractical world.

Jealous?

And the UFP isn't communist. Just because they don't use money does not automatically make them communist. I'd says it's a combination.

Tell me what episode have you seen showing UFP post Dominion War?

Voyager Endgame?
The las epp of DS9
First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Technically they are not marxist. They are however a harline Socialist state.

And what about the bits with Riker gambling at Quarks? Sisko Sr. owning a restaraunt? Ezri's family owning a successful business?

The Federation is a democracy with some socialist tendancies and Earth itself seems to have partially done away with currency, but the Federation itself has not outlawed private property nor has it done away with currency. Hell, it would be impossible for the Federation to conduct meaningful trade with anyone else without currency. The barter method only works so far. Money allows you to make trades without having something directly in return.

[NecronLord]

Voyager Endgame?

Ah yes, Endgame, ultimate proof that their stupidity continues on..

First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Aren't these during the Dominion War?

Fist contact might be, Insurrection is after, Picard refers to the war in teh past tense.

[Crazy_Vasey]

There's no way that Insurrection could be during the Dominion war, even the feds are stupid enough to send their best ship to the ass end of nowhere in the middle of a full out war.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Make that aren't stupid enough. Silly no edit function.

[NecronLord]

oops "Fist Contact"

I demand that be a new film where Kirk is ressurected, sees what has happened and goes on a kirk-fu rampage on the Ent E

[Evil Jerk]

Fist contact might be, Insurrection is after, Picard refers to the war in teh past tense.

Ah, well I don't remember too much about Star Trek: Indigestion (thankfully), but I thought it might be during because of a reference I recalled about the Son'a making White for the Dominion.

[NecronLord]

Fist contact might be, Insurrection is after, Picard refers to the war in teh past tense.

Ah, well I don't remember too much about Star Trek: Indigestion (thankfully), but I thought it might be during because of a reference I recalled about the Son'a making White for the Dominion.

They refer to that in the past tense... Want to help me write fist contact?

[Alyeska]

There's no way that Insurrection could be during the Dominion war, even the feds are stupid enough to send their best ship to the ass end of nowhere in the middle of a full out war.

FYI, Insurrection happens 6 months before the war ended. Reason being is that Rouafa said the Federation had been challeneged by three major powers in a specific time frame. If you construct together the chain of events from the time that First Contact was supposed to happen, the latest possible date Insurrection took place was 6 months prior to the end of the war.

Thats why the Federation was sending the E-E all over the place trying to get support and new members.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

[quote=NecronLord]They refer to that in the past tense... Want to help me write fist contact?[/quote]

"Fist Contact"? Is that a typo, or the title of a parody fanfic?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Of the UFP? Are you joking?

I wouldn't mind living in the UFP. The holodecks alone would be worth it.

They also don't allow free trade, the state owns everything, there's no private transportation, the govt. has the final say on everything, their military gain special privilidges etc. etc.

They don't allow free trade, which episode gave you that idea? The state owns everything? Remember that Ben Siskos dad owns that restraunt of his. The goverment has the final say as far as what? What special priviledges does the military have?

My views are from the final eps of DS9, and from what I've heard from the scripts of Nemesis, and the fact that they think Riker is good, proving their stupidity above all else (unless of course we find that his new command is in fact a garbage scow).

Sometimes I wonder if B&B, and whoever else is responsible actually believe that Riker is a good commander, I would love to ask them. The guy seems to have a track record of using everything else to defeat the enemy, instead of the ships weapons.

[Admiral Drason]

And what about the bits with Riker gambling at Quarks? Sisko Sr. owning a restaraunt? Ezri's family owning a successful business?

The Federation is a democracy with some socialist tendancies and Earth itself seems to have partially done away with currency, but the Federation itself has not outlawed private property nor has it done away with currency. Hell, it would be impossible for the Federation to conduct meaningful trade with anyone else without currency. The barter method only works so far. Money allows you to make trades without having something directly in return.

Please thay own buisnesses because the federation wants them to. What would it be like to bust your ass off for a resturant if you dont get any pay off, its insane. Siskos resturant might be successful but hes not geting any money out of it.

And why dont you see any personal vehicles if they are allowed there own property. maybe its becuase they want to make sure you cant leave the federation.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Well, maybe. But now with the war over and all they seem to be heading back to their comfy little communist, inpractical world.

Jealous?

And the UFP isn't communist. Just because they don't use money does not automatically make them communist. I'd says it's a combination.

Tell me what episode have you seen showing UFP post Dominion War?

Voyager Endgame?
The las epp of DS9
First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Technically they are not marxist. They are however a harline Socialist state.

The last episode of DS9 is technically not post dominion war.

I didn't see anything from Endgame that seemed to be an indication that the UFP was not improving.

[NecronLord]

I'm pretty sure (correct me if this is a nonexistent term) they would be considered a Democratic Socialist state, since they do have a "council" and a President. I'm assuming that there's some sort of voting process, though possibly limited to "qualified" members of the population, probably those in positions of power.

They had elections in the USSR, all the candidates were from the communist party though...

[Alyeska]

"In the last 24 months the Federation has been challenged by the Borg, the Cardassians, and the Dominion"

That gives a time stamp for when this takes place. That means that when that quote was spoken in a time span of 24 months (two years) the Federation had been attacked by those three groups. This tells us that the absolute LATEST this movie can take place (Insurrection) is at the point where 24 months have gone by since the Borg attacked.

Well when did the Borg attack? Well we can time stamp it at middle of the 5th seaon, or mid 2373. The war starts in 2474 and lasts two years. That means the latest possible time Insurrection could have taken place was durring the later half of the second year of the war, durring the Breen alliance into the war.

Additionally the fact that the Breen were left out when the Cardassians were included might indicate that Insurrection takes place just prior to the Breen intervention.

[Alyeska]

And what about the bits with Riker gambling at Quarks? Sisko Sr. owning a restaraunt? Ezri's family owning a successful business?

The Federation is a democracy with some socialist tendancies and Earth itself seems to have partially done away with currency, but the Federation itself has not outlawed private property nor has it done away with currency. Hell, it would be impossible for the Federation to conduct meaningful trade with anyone else without currency. The barter method only works so far. Money allows you to make trades without having something directly in return.

Please thay own buisnesses because the federation wants them to. What would it be like to bust your ass off for a resturant if you dont get any pay off, its insane. Siskos resturant might be successful but hes not geting any money out of it.

And why dont you see any personal vehicles if they are allowed there own property. maybe its becuase they want to make sure you cant leave the federation.

Yes, why haven't we seen them with personal vehicles when they are stationed on board a spaceship or are walking on pedestrian pathways...

[Kamakazie Sith]

Please thay own buisnesses because the federation wants them to. What would it be like to bust your ass off for a resturant if you dont get any pay off, its insane. Siskos resturant might be successful but hes not geting any money out of it.

And why dont you see any personal vehicles if they are allowed there own property. maybe its becuase they want to make sure you cant leave the federation.

Can anyone recall if any customers actually paid for their food?

How do you know you haven't seen any personal vehicles?

[NecronLord]

Jealous?

And the UFP isn't communist. Just because they don't use money does not automatically make them communist. I'd says it's a combination.

Tell me what episode have you seen showing UFP post Dominion War?

Voyager Endgame?
The las epp of DS9
First Contact
Insurrectioin.

Technically they are not marxist. They are however a hardline Socialist state.

And what about the bits with Riker gambling at Quarks? Sisko Sr. owning a restaraunt? Ezri's family owning a successful business?

Need I remind you that quarks is run by a ferengi under bajoran law?

The restraunt is a hobby

never heard about ezri's family

The Federation is a democracy with some socialist tendancies and Earth itself seems to have partially done away with currency, but the Federation itself has not outlawed private property nor has it done away with currency. Hell, it would be impossible for the Federation to conduct meaningful trade with anyone else without currency. The barter method only works so far. Money allows you to make trades without having something directly in return.

"ten bars of gold pressed latinum please..."

[Evil Jerk]

Fist contact might be, Insurrection is after, Picard refers to the war in teh past tense.

Ah, well I don't remember too much about Star Trek: Indigestion (thankfully), but I thought it might be during because of a reference I recalled about the Son'a making White for the Dominion.

They refer to that in the past tense... Want to help me write fist contact?

Uhhh.. you mean, like Kirk's fists, right?

I wouldn't mind living in the UFP. The holodecks alone would be worth it.

Sure, as long as they don't decide to malfunction and kill you.

They don't allow free trade, which episode gave you that idea?

The Ferengi say so repeatedly, and there's never been anything to contradict this.

The state owns everything? Remember that Ben Siskos dad owns that restraunt of his.

How do we know that he owns it? He might be renting it or some such.

The goverment has the final say as far as what?

Science (Federation Science Council), the press (Federation News Service), tranportation (everything is Fed owned, what if they don't want you to go anywhere?), etc.

What special priviledges does the military have?

Large lavish rooms on their ships, Picard is able to fly his ship where he wants when he wants, that replicator thing I heard about (where Picard replaces better ones with older ones because they won't make his tea in Nemesis).

Sometimes I wonder if B&B, and whoever else is responsible actually believe that Riker is a good commander, I would love to ask them. The guy seems to have a track record of using everything else to defeat the enemy, instead of the ships weapons.

They probably do, B&B seem to have the astounding ability to forget or just not give a shit about what's happened before.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

And what about the bits with Riker gambling at Quarks? Sisko Sr. owning a restaraunt? Ezri's family owning a successful business?

The Federation is a democracy with some socialist tendancies and Earth itself seems to have partially done away with currency, but the Federation itself has not outlawed private property nor has it done away with currency. Hell, it would be impossible for the Federation to conduct meaningful trade with anyone else without currency. The barter method only works so far. Money allows you to make trades without having something directly in return.

Please thay own buisnesses because the federation wants them to. What would it be like to bust your ass off for a resturant if you dont get any pay off, its insane. Siskos resturant might be successful but hes not geting any money out of it.

And why dont you see any personal vehicles if they are allowed there own property. maybe its becuase they want to make sure you cant leave the federation.

Okay, can you prove Sisko, Sr. doesn't get paid? Can you show evidence that no one owns their own vehicles? (Wait, that's proving a negative, sorry.) How many stories have focused on civilians, let alone civilians going anywhere? All of these "no money" statements are based primarliy on two lines of dialogue which are open to more than one interpretation:

Kirk's line in ST:IV about not having money in the 23rd century. He could easily have been referring to a cashless, credit-based economy (like the one we seem to be moving toward) where all transactions are electronic and hard currency is no longer minted.

Picard's line in ST:FC about the accumulation of wealth no longer being a "driving force in our lives." He's not saying the accumulation of wealth is no longer possible, or even that it's frowned upon -- just that people have better things to live for.

[NecronLord]

They refer to that in the past tense... Want to help me write fist contact?

"Fist Contact"? Is that a typo, or the title of a parody fanfic?

It was a typo, now its going to be a parody fic..

[Cpt_Frank]

Please thay own buisnesses because the federation wants them to. What would it be like to bust your ass off for a resturant if you dont get any pay off, its insane. Siskos resturant might be successful but hes not geting any money out of it.

And why dont you see any personal vehicles if they are allowed there own property. maybe its becuase they want to make sure you cant leave the federation.

Can anyone recall if any customers actually paid for their food?

How do you know you haven't seen any personal vehicles?

You'd expect Troi's mother who is something high-ranking among Betazoids (although I don't know what anymore) to have a personal ship, for example, however, she uses public transport shuttles.