Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

”EnterpriseSovereign”
”Batman”
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“Bilateralrope”
Sooooo, one episode left.

Anybody wanna place bets on what happens?

And whether things pan out well or crashes and burns?

Will the ending be enjoyable or will we roll our eyes in disappointment?
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-02 12:37pm Sooooo, one episode left.

Anybody wanna place bets on what happens?

And whether things pan out well or crashes and burns?

Will the ending be enjoyable or will we roll our eyes in disappointment?
TBH I don't see how they can wrap this up satisfyingly in one episode. I've also heard John DeLancie is in season 3 and it was filmed at the same time as 2. So I'm not putting some kind of cliff hanger or Q induced open ending happening beyond it.

I thought last season saved itself with a relatively strong ending (a new Soong and Picard's death/android rebirth withstanding) but I'm leaning towards eye rolling for this one. Talking Q around with the power of love maybe?
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2022-05-02 01:09pm
Tribble wrote: 2022-05-02 12:37pm Sooooo, one episode left.

Anybody wanna place bets on what happens?

And whether things pan out well or crashes and burns?

Will the ending be enjoyable or will we roll our eyes in disappointment?
TBH I don't see how they can wrap this up satisfyingly in one episode. I've also heard John DeLancie is in season 3 and it was filmed at the same time as 2. So I'm not putting some kind of cliff hanger or Q induced open ending happening beyond it.

I thought last season saved itself with a relatively strong ending (a new Soong and Picard's death/android rebirth withstanding) but I'm leaning towards eye rolling for this one. Talking Q around with the power of love maybe?
Let’s hope so…

What I suspect is going to happen is Picard and Co will save the mission, go back to the future and figure out a way not to kill themselves. Then Q is going to going help solve the actual mess and die, but not before reminding Picard about the final lesson that just because his mother was batshit crazy and hung herself doesn’t mean he can’t understand the power of love, not to blow yourself up before knowing who are are planning to take out with you etc etc.

I’m not expecting to learn anything about why Q was dying in the first place, nor all that drama about Q being “the suture in the wound” meaning much. It’ll probably turn out that Q was just being bitter that due to his failing powers he couldn’t instantly fix whatever mess Picard made and knew he would ultimately have to die because of it.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-02 12:37pm Anybody wanna place bets on what happens?
For all Picard has talked about the Prime Directive in his past, he's not going to say anything about Tallinn or whoever she works for meddling with humanity. Nor will we get any information about who those watchers are or what happened to them after the Federation formed.

Tallinn might disguise herself as Renée to be the one who dies. Or we will get some nonsense explanation of that line.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

bilateralrope wrote: 2022-05-03 07:59am
Tribble wrote: 2022-05-02 12:37pm Anybody wanna place bets on what happens?
For all Picard has talked about the Prime Directive in his past, he's not going to say anything about Tallinn or whoever she works for meddling with humanity. Nor will we get any information about who those watchers are or what happened to them after the Federation formed.

Tallinn might disguise herself as Renée to be the one who dies. Or we will get some nonsense explanation of that line.
Maybe it’s a personality thing? The “old” Renee dies while the new inspired one takes flight?

I don’t care about the past characters tbh, though hopefully Soong gets some comeuppance.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-03 10:47am I don’t care about the past characters tbh, though hopefully Soong gets some comeuppance.
Soong will get come upance. At least one renee will complete the europa mission. Teresa and her son will go full Gillian Taylor and be taken bak to the future.

Extreme outside chance that they all stay in the past and we get hit with the downer ending of continuity: and hear how they all horribly died in wwiii not long after. (When was WWIII?)
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-03 10:47am Maybe it’s a personality thing? The “old” Renee dies while the new inspired one takes flight?
If that's what happens, then the line has no importance.
Crazedwraith wrote: 2022-05-03 01:29pm Extreme outside chance that they all stay in the past and we get hit with the downer ending of continuity: and hear how they all horribly died in wwiii not long after. (When was WWIII?)
The options for them returning themselves to the future are limited. Q has lost his powers. Their ship is gone. Tallinn doesn't appear to have a ship and, even if she did, there is still the problem of navigating time travel.

I only see two options:
- Someone disables the aging algorithm in Picard's body so that he can survive the centuries while hidden away somewhere.
- They leave a message with Guinan. The Federation believes her message when she finally delivers it.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

bilateralrope wrote: 2022-05-04 12:19am The options for them returning themselves to the future are limited. Q has lost his powers. Their ship is gone. Tallinn doesn't appear to have a ship and, even if she did, there is still the problem of navigating time travel.

I only see two options:
- Someone disables the aging algorithm in Picard's body so that he can survive the centuries while hidden away somewhere.
- They leave a message with Guinan. The Federation believes her message when she finally delivers it.

Hmm. I was thinking of the historical characrers when I said that but you're right. Those options seem possible. Though a Time's Arrow rip off seems like it would be a bad idea. If they'd foreshadowed it all, It'd expect someone along the line of Ent's Daniels or Voyager's Braxton to pick them up.

Q might regain his powers somehow before, the how adventure could be rendered not have happened by time paradox. (hopefully unlikelly, especially since they gave Seven her mods back already)

Or they just don't, or they try and end up elsewhere and it's a cliffhanger.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

”EnterpriseSovereign”
”Batman”
”Crazedwraith”
“Bilateralrope”
Annnnnnd... it more or less ends as a mashup of what we expected:

SPOILERS!

Tallinn disguises herself as Renée to be the one who dies. Renee makes it into space and finds the special space amoeba.

Rios stays in the past, cause why not. Apparently survives WW3 and uses special space amoeba to save the environment.
Turns out Soong is at least partially responsible for Khan :roll:

Q admits that yes, this was all about him trying to fix Picard’s mommy issues, stop Picard’s suicide and finally spice up Picard’s sex life before dying :lol:
(Ok, obviously he knew about the trans warp explosion wiping out all life in the quadrant/galaxy and this was his way of changing the timeline and fixing that too, but still).

Q also apparently decided to wipe out Picard's brother from existence for reasonz because I don't recall him being mentioned and/or seen. Better than dying horribly with his son in a fire just to make Picard sad for an hour or two, I guess.

Naturally why Q was dying in the first place is totally left unexplained. Apparently the rest of the Q have died out too for reasonz seeing as Q stated he was dying alone and no other Q showed up during Guinan's ritual. Not expecting an answer anytime soon.

Also no real explanation why Q was clearly trying to kill (directly and indirectly) the very people he needed for his plan to work, but I digress? Like, what would have happened had his powers worked long enough to kill Renee and/or Guinan? Best case scenario it was all an act, (even for the viewer)?

Q uses the last of his powers to send most of the remaining cast (apart from Rios) back home, restores Legolas Elnor to life... then apparently dies.

Picard aborts the self-destruct... when he realizes Jurati was the Borg Queen all along. Surprise! :shock:

Jurati Borg Queen uses the energy of the fleet to stop the explosion which is a literal plot hole leading into season 3 a trans warp conduit created by an unknown entity. Borg decide to temporarily join the Federation and keep an eye on it.

Picard decides to hook up with Laris, cause mommy issues are over.

Seven gets randomly promoted to captain and finally kisses Raffi.

Present day Guinian admits it was all part of the plan. Sure it was.

And finally.... Kore gets randomly picked up by.... Weasley Crusher the Traveller?! As a sort of Time Agent?! Run away! Run far away! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Apart from way too many things to try and wrap up in one episode, my central criticism with this season is the whole premise. The idea of the main theme being Picard's lack of a love life is silly enough on its own, but IMO it may have been done well had it been done differently. The idea that Picard never had a real love life because he had secret mommy traumaz as a child all along is rather absurd. That's not to say that childhood traumas can't cause life long issues of course; but apart from his decision to pursue his relationship with Laris it changes very little about him.

More importantly we already had a decent enough explanation as to why his relationships didn't last. Picard was truly in love with Beverly more than anyone else, but he couldn't quite bring himself to pursue a romantic relationship due to the circumstances. She was after all the widow of his best friend, and apparently Picard was at least indirectly responsible for his best friend's death. Kinda puts a whole damper on things. And in the only other real romance with Nella Daren ended with the mutual decision that she couldn't stay under his command and that their careers were more important to them.

Given that this was apparently Q's swansong, we didn't actually see much interaction between him and Picard, apart from the beginning and the end. With the heavy promotion of Q's return and their overall relationship, one would think that would have gotten a little more screen time.

Oh well.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

That being said, despite my snark and overall disappointment with the season there were some excellent moments from the main cast. And while YMMV IMHO John Delancie did a great job given the material he had to work with, as usual. Tbh Ive always enjoyed Q whenever he appeared, he was one of my favourite characters in the franchise and I admit had tears in the end.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by blahface »

You'd think that when Seven finally encounter Q again she would have asked about his son.

When Wesley Crusher appeared, it didn't register to me that it was him. I just thought, "Oh, they got Wil Wheaton to make a cameo as some rando."

Overall, I really didn't like this season. Time travel sucks and just doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-05 06:02pm And finally.... Kore gets randomly picked up by.... Weasley Crusher the Traveller?! As a sort of Time Agent?! Run away! Run far away! :lol: :lol: :lol:
With the detail of Weasley using what looks like a typical transporter, instead of the fog-transporter effect. So that's one more question I have about them.
The idea that Picard never had a real love life because he had secret mommy traumaz as a child all along is rather absurd. That's not to say that childhood traumas can't cause life long issues of course; but apart from his decision to pursue his relationship with Laris it changes very little about him.
Yeah. I'm not buying that the trauma went unresolved for so long. I doubt his mothers suicide went unrecorded by the authorities* and something like that should have come up in whatever psychological evaluation the academy performs on cadets. Then there are his decades in Starfleet encountering various telepaths. Including Troi.

*Though they might not have discovered that he let her out.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

Tribble wrote: 2022-05-05 06:02pm
Rios stays in the past, cause why not. Apparently survives WW3 and uses special space amoeba to save the environment.
Turns out Soong is at least partially responsible for Khan :roll:
The lack of explicit WWIII reference really pissed me off. Elephant in the room unaddressed.

Khan and the Eugenics War was 1990s unless they've retconned it. It's more likely a reference to Enterprise's Arik Soong who created/rescued Augments. I forget the precise details.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Rios didn't have to stay in the past, he could have brought the good doctor and her son with him to the future, given they'd already seen the inside of his ship and its advanced technology it's much better than staying in the past with all its existing problems. And WWIII being just around the corner, starting approximately 2026 and ending in 2053. Kirk did it in Voyage Home after all :wink: There's some confusion as to whether the Eugenics Wars were actually part of WWIII since they had to do a retcon when the original date passed.

It bugs me that the date and time they visited coincided with the Bell Riots, yet the only reference to Past Tense was the existence of Sanctuary Districts. Had Trump gotten re-elected they would have included those events simply because they would have happened for real.

Seven Of Nine's sexuality changing from straight to bisexual (anyone remember her relationship with Chakotay?) was less than convincing- I don't recall her showing any sign of attraction to any other women and she had her share of male admirers on Voyager.

The drama with Renée Picard, I had a feeling it would be the Tallinn in disguise who encountered Soong. Apparently the neurotoxin meant for Renée killed her despite the small problem of her being a Romulan and thus a different humanoid species.

The Europa mission taking place in just two years time is extremely far-fetched given we haven't even been to Mars yet, never mind Jupiter or its moons.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

blahface wrote: 2022-05-05 10:28pm When Wesley Crusher appeared, it didn't register to me that it was him. I just thought, "Oh, they got Wil Wheaton to make a cameo as some rando."
I didn't recognise him until he said he was Wesley. I've barely watched anything he did since TNG.
EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-05-06 11:41pm Rios didn't have to stay in the past, he could have brought the good doctor and her son with him to the future,
How ?

They were all preparing to live in the past until Q offered them a way back to their time. A way he said would kill him. Even if Q was lying about that, convincing him to bring along two extra people seems unlikely.

There's some confusion as to whether the Eugenics Wars were actually part of WWIII since they had to do a retcon when the original date passed.
The first episode of Strange New Worlds clarifies that point.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

I didn't recognise him until he said he was Wesley. I've barely watched anything he did since TNG.
He's been in Big Bang Theory (playing himself) so I recognised him immediately, at least it reveals exactly what he did after he left the Enterprise with the Traveller and his part in protecting Renée Picard.
They were all preparing to live in the past until Q offered them a way back to their time. A way he said would kill him. Even if Q was lying about that, convincing him to bring along two extra people seems unlikely.
Is that what Q meant? I didn't pick that up, though I'm sure the writers could still have made that work.
The first episode of Strange New Worlds clarifies that point.
SNW doesn't come to the UK until late next month, and I'm not going to sign up to another streaming service for just one show :lol:

It was very rushed the way they suddenly returned to the future and how they immediately went do deal with a discharge from some anomaly they just discovered and how it threatened the quadrant/sector, which was about as plausible as the Hobus supernova somehow posing a similar threat. It wouldn't surprise me if said anomaly was something the Borg themselves inadvertently caused, perhaps a trying to set up another transwarp hub and it blowing up in their faces.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Tribble »

blahface wrote: 2022-05-05 10:28pm You'd think that when Seven finally encounter Q again she would have asked about his son.
Like Robert Picard, Q Jr seems to have... disappeared. Apparently even the Q are not immune to the whims of the writers.
bilateralrope wrote:With the detail of Weasley using what looks like a typical transporter, instead of the fog-transporter effect. So that's one more question I have about them.
Maybe he was booted out, and is now pretending? Even the Travellers must have their limits when it comes to Wesley Crusher. :lol:
bilateralrope wrote:Yeah. I'm not buying that the trauma went unresolved for so long. I doubt his mothers suicide went unrecorded by the authorities* and something like that should have come up in whatever psychological evaluation the academy performs on cadets. Then there are his decades in Starfleet encountering various telepaths. Including Troi.

*Though they might not have discovered that he let her out.
Or that time when Picard and Dr Crusher literally had devices telepathically linking them together and were discussing Picard's love for her, yet his mother was never brought up.
Or never brought up even when Picard and Robert were at fisticuffs and discussing their childhood.
Or that time an apparition of his clearly elderly mother appeared in "Where No One Has Gone Before" and at no point did Picard say "Gotcha! My real mom hung herself long before she'd become a nanny!"

IMO if there were going to do a time travel story involving a past trauma which stunted Picard's love life, why not finally show the Stargazer mission which lead to Jack Crusher's death (which IIRC was explored in novels but not in detail in the tv series proper)? And elderly Picard has to choose once again whether or not to let his best friend die? And end with him finally forgiving himself for Jack's death and openly pursuing a relationship with Beverly?

Or, as a time travel story about Q and the Borg, why not have Q bring Picard to a time-line where he did not end up sending the E-D to J25 to encounter the Borg and see where things played out from there? With Picard ultimately deciding that, despite all the death and destruction that the original course of events lead to, they were still better than the alternative? And finally let go of his guilt over being Locutus?

I mean, there's a lot of options they could have explored here.
Crazedwraith wrote:The lack of explicit WWIII reference really pissed me off. Elephant in the room unaddressed.
There's enough elephants in the room that Jurati could've just used them block to explosion instead of the fleet :lol:
Crazedwraith wrote: Khan and the Eugenics War was 1990s unless they've retconned it. It's more likely a reference to Enterprise's Arik Soong who created/rescued Augments. I forget the precise details.
True, I forgot about that.
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Seven Of Nine's sexuality changing from straight to bisexual (anyone remember her relationship with Chakotay?) was less than convincing- I don't recall her showing any sign of attraction to any other women and she had her share of male admirers on Voyager.
Given Seven's options between Commander Poorly-Researched-And-Walking-Native-Stereotype Chakotay, Chronically-Sexually Confused/Abused Ensign Kim, Perverted Holo Doctor who really ought to follow medical ethics when it comes to patients, Boring Dream Borg Boyfriend Living on Other Side of the Galaxy, Stupid Angry Nazi Husband From Alternate Timeline or Raffi... tbh I think this is the best match she's made so far! :lol:
bilateralrope wrote: They were all preparing to live in the past until Q offered them a way back to their time. A way he said would kill him. Even if Q was lying about that, convincing him to bring along two extra people seems unlikely.
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Is that what Q meant? I didn't pick that up, though I'm sure the writers could still have made that work
Ya the writers could have easily made it work. In the story, Q makes it clear that he only had enough energy to send the crew back, and Rios deciding to stay left enough surplus to bring Elnor back. Q also states that in his weakened state this act would "kill" him... or at least end his existence in this particular universe and send his consciousness off somewhere (it's possible that what he was hinting at when he insisted on saying he was "moving on" instead of "dying", unless he was just being in denial). Q admits he doesn't know what will actually happen when he "dies," which is why he was initially hoping to enjoy the experience (much like Quinn).
EnterpriseSovereign wrote: It was very rushed the way they suddenly returned to the future and how they immediately went do deal with a discharge from some anomaly they just discovered and how it threatened the quadrant/sector, which was about as plausible as the Hobus supernova somehow posing a similar threat. It wouldn't surprise me if said anomaly was something the Borg themselves inadvertently caused, perhaps a trying to set up another transwarp hub and it blowing up in their faces.
Ya, kinda silly how they solved that problem (well, the explosion, not the conduit itself) so quickly.

Also, you'd think that Jurati would have maybe just revealed herself right away before shooting tentacles everywhere to take over the ships? Or arrived a bit sooner so that she could fully explain herself?
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

First episode of Picard S3 was fine. As others said buoyed up performances rather than plot. I hope Raffi and Seven being split up was also part of the ruse for the orion dealer.

I don't particularly like the overarching plot so far or the idea Beverly's not talked to them for 20 years but hey-oh that's how Disco/Picard seasons work.

I liked Seven back as a Commander and the apparently current reference to being in contact with Janeway. Still think she's underused but they at least did something with her this episode.

Captain Dick making her go by Hansen and his remarks against Picard show xB prejudice is still alive and well. :(

It's petty but the thing that bugs me most about Picard is the lousy ship designs. Now they've chunkified and ruined a constitution class. (I think new connie and excelsior designs are a silly idea, and dislike any other than the Enterprise else getting a registry letter suffix. It's a silly thing that only hero ships get, they never randomly run into one with a suffix.)
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2023-02-18 11:12am Captain Dick making her go by Hansen and his remarks against Picard show xB prejudice is still alive and well. :(
Apart from his prejudice towards victims of the Borg, he seemed a rude but possibly reasonable. Maybe not a captain I'd put on any diplomatic missions, but one who could be quite suitable on a ship that operates within Federation borders and/or on outright military missions. Or maybe he behaves differently when he isn't around Starfleet officers who are acting very suspiciously.

Though I've got to wonder how Seven ended up as an officer on his ship. I've also got some vague memories of a Voyager episode where Seven was put in charge of something and was reassigning designations to the crew under her command. So I've got questions about how much she would care about it. If Captain Dick is the one she can serve under best and the name change is just something she's willing to adapt to.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

bilateralrope wrote: 2023-02-19 07:57am
Crazedwraith wrote: 2023-02-18 11:12am Captain Dick making her go by Hansen and his remarks against Picard show xB prejudice is still alive and well. :(
Apart from his prejudice towards victims of the Borg, he seemed a rude but possibly reasonable. Maybe not a captain I'd put on any diplomatic missions, but one who could be quite suitable on a ship that operates within Federation borders and/or on outright military missions. Or maybe he behaves differently when he isn't around Starfleet officers who are acting very suspiciously.
A bit of chicken and egg situation here? Is he refusing Picard/Riker a favour because he's a colossal dick and hates them. Or is he being a colossal dick because Picard/Riker have forced their way onto his ship on dubious pretences and asking favour without even buttering him up much first.

The actual decision not to do them a favour actually seems reasonably reasoned, it's just he was such a dick, lol. But They are retired and he has actual orders from his actual chain of command. Of course, the only apparent downside to doing them said favour would be having to haul arse a bit and maybe burn some more fuel. Maybe has to sign the receipts at the antimatter station?

Tangentially, the mention of paygrades seemed incongruent for Star Trek TNG as well.
Though I've got to wonder how Seven ended up as an officer on his ship. I've also got some vague memories of a Voyager episode where Seven was put in charge of something and was reassigning designations to the crew under her command. So I've got questions about how much she would care about it. If Captain Dick is the one she can serve under best and the name change is just something she's willing to adapt to.
I'm guessing even in something mildly military as Starfleet you don't have much choice where you're assigned. And Seven has matured significantly since that Voyager episode. Still that maybe the very reasoning Starfleet personnel went for. Captain Dick (Shaw's his real name?) may have a rep as a bit of stickler and martinet and they thought they would rub along well.

Since we see so little of them outside Picard/Riker's visit and nothing at all about Shaw's command of his crew since he leaves it all to Seven, it hard to tell what his actual attitude is.

---

More moaning about Titan-A. It's weird. It's called a refit and we see in Disco a significant enough refit (from 23rd century to 31st century tech) can warrant a registry addition but the Titan seems to have changed class from Luna (in Lower Decks) to (ugh) Neo-constitution and yet Shaw wiped Riker's jazz files when he came on board. Did Riker command Titan and Titan-A and the refit did not change the class. Do they transfer all the computer files over when they make an A version? (is this part of the distiction of the registry suffix as opposed to just reusing the name under a different registry.

So many pointless nerdy questions!

Also the how Titan thing seems contrived. Previously non-Starfleet travel meant La Sirena. But Raffi has that now. Plus if they are going to bring in Worf later how easy would it have been to introduce him by having him swing by in the Rotarran or whatever?
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2023-02-19 11:27am A bit of chicken and egg situation here? Is he refusing Picard/Riker a favour because he's a colossal dick and hates them. Or is he being a colossal dick because Picard/Riker have forced their way onto his ship on dubious pretences and asking favour without even buttering him up much first.

The actual decision not to do them a favour actually seems reasonably reasoned, it's just he was such a dick, lol. But They are retired and he has actual orders from his actual chain of command. Of course, the only apparent downside to doing them said favour would be having to haul arse a bit and maybe burn some more fuel. Maybe has to sign the receipts at the antimatter station?
How often was an Admiral visiting a ship a good thing for that ship in other Trek series ?

Add in his apparent like of everything going as planned and their reputation for regularly going well outside the rules and I can see why he'd dislike them from reputation alone.

Though those bunk beds might have been the only beds available on short notice.
Tangentially, the mention of paygrades seemed incongruent for Star Trek TNG as well.
Or it's a figure of speech that's remained after its literal meaning has gone away. If you want to get into a discussion on if the Federation has money at various points in its history, there are stronger pieces of evidence elsewhere.
Since we see so little of them outside Picard/Riker's visit and nothing at all about Shaw's command of his crew since he leaves it all to Seven, it hard to tell what his actual attitude is.
That's what makes it interesting for speculation. We don't even know how Seven feels about being told which name to use.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

bilateralrope wrote: 2023-02-19 12:42pm How often was an Admiral visiting a ship a good thing for that ship in other Trek series ?

Add in his apparent like of everything going as planned and their reputation for regularly going well outside the rules and I can see why he'd dislike them from reputation alone.
Eh, I'm not sure I like them getting Meta about the evil admiral thing.

There are some prominent examples of them being mavericks but generally they very much on the level day to day on the E-D.

I've not seen more than a few clips of Lower Decks but I think the implication that E-D's adventures were remarkable and reckless here is interesting when Lower Decks get a lot of mileage about all of Starfleet getting into weird hijinks every week. (could be wrong)
Or it's a figure of speech that's remained after its literal meaning has gone away. If you want to get into a discussion on if the Federation has money at various points in its history, there are stronger pieces of evidence elsewhere.
Yes, I imagine that it's a figure of speech but it's not a figure of speech I remember them often using prior in TNG era Star Trek, which is what makes it seem incongruent to me. (though I could easily have forgotten it) It's not inexplicable or wrong it just stood out to me.
That's what makes it interesting for speculation. We don't even know how Seven feels about being told which name to use.
From Ryan's acting and from Seven's explicit frustrations with Starfleet later, I'm going to assume she doesn't like it at all. Her preferring the name Seven over Annika Hansen is long established.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2023-02-19 11:27am I'm guessing even in something mildly military as Starfleet you don't have much choice where you're assigned. And Seven has matured significantly since that Voyager episode. Still that maybe the very reasoning Starfleet personnel went for. Captain Dick (Shaw's his real name?) may have a rep as a bit of stickler and martinet and they thought they would rub along well.
Seven might not have much choice. But I remember a scene with Picard discussing why he chose Riker to be his first officer, so it looks like the captain does have some influence over the decision. At least the ability to choose between available officers.

Though there is the question of what kinds of captains get to choose first. The ones who stick to procedures or the ones who can recognise when the rules need to be bent/broken.
I've not seen more than a few clips of Lower Decks but I think the implication that E-D's adventures were remarkable and reckless here is interesting when Lower Decks get a lot of mileage about all of Starfleet getting into weird hijinks every week. (could be wrong)
That attitude from the Lower Decks crew might be due to bias about what they hear about other ships. They are going to hear a lot more about the times when things don't go as planned.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by Crazedwraith »

Disappointed in episode 2.

We saw it coming but Jack Crusher being Picard's son is very very disappointing. It's cliche and it jobs the scenario of all principles. It's not about not negotiating with bounty hunters or the right for a fair trial, it's just 'must protect bio-kid at all costs'. ugh

I just don't buy than a random mercenary vessel is so much more powerful than a Starfleet vessel, it's there to force the dilemma which I don't like the resolution of.

Is Raffi Section 31 like the Ferengi says? Fuck that, not as bad as Disco S2 legitimisation for them but not good

When someone started jobbing up people to protect Raffi my immediately thought before getting a look at them was Elnor. Where is Elnor anyway? Wasn't Raffi intensively devoted to protecting him and being there for him last season? Why is she in intelligence? Why isn't Picard running Starfleet Academy anymore? Why is there such a break from season 2 when they written/filmed at the same time?

Beverly gets do to nothing but stand around and give Picard a look in mute appeal at the end. Give McFadden something to do! Oh and it turns out there's no big conspiracy she's worried about, she's just a petty criminal/freedom fighter now? I hope there's more to this than we've yet to known.
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Re: Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2023-02-25 07:40am Disappointed in episode 2.

We saw it coming but Jack Crusher being Picard's son is very very disappointing. It's cliche and it jobs the scenario of all principles. It's not about not negotiating with bounty hunters or the right for a fair trial, it's just 'must protect bio-kid at all costs'. ugh

I just don't buy than a random mercenary vessel is so much more powerful than a Starfleet vessel, it's there to force the dilemma which I don't like the resolution of.
Agreed. Especially since they made a point of saying that the Titan had gone through a major refit.
Is Raffi Section 31 like the Ferengi says? Fuck that, not as bad as Disco S2 legitimisation for them but not good
At this point we can't be sure if Raffi is working for the Federation or some other intelligence agency has been lying to her.

I doubt Worf would be working for Section 31, even if he has changed enough that he's willing to work for an intelligence agency.
Why isn't Picard running Starfleet Academy anymore?
His conversation with Laris gave the impression that he was planning to leave Earth with her. Though I'm unclear if that was permanent or just a short trip while he was on leave from the academy.

Though with the mistakes he's making, like meeting Riker in public instead of his home, I won't be surprised if we find out he's resigned from Starfleet again, this time because he's no longer up to it.
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