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Batman wrote:The holodeck scene in the beginning was the only TNG part of the movie actually worth watching.

reasons for aside, the crash landing is pretty cool.

Skylon wrote:From a budgetary standpoint though, simply doing away with the damn holodeck scene which serves no purpose other than to scream "MOVIE BUDGET! - WE HAS IT!" would make sense.

What actually happened there was that Jeri Taylor pointed out that the earlier versions of the screenplay - which had the Enterprise-B sequence ending with Kirk's death, then the Romulans attacking and nearly killing everyone on the Amargosa observatory before the Enterprise-D showed up to drive them away, followed by the revelation that Picard's brother and nephew had been killed, and then Soran blowing up the Amargosa sun and abducting Geordi - would be too relentlessly dark and depressing for casual audiences, and suggested that the perfect way to lighten up the film's early sections would be a whimsical period piece on the holodeck. Which, for god knows what reason, ended up being one of two scenes (the other being the stellar cartography sequence) that ate up a disproportionately huge chunk of the budget.

Strangely enough, the producers of the 1960s Batman TV series actually showed more nous when it came to marking smart usage of a theatrical budget; when they made Batman: The Movie they poured most of the money into upgrading the Batcave and making new vehicles and gadgets that could be re-used on the show. Instead of thinking about things that could be carried over to DS9 or the then-in-development Voyager, Berman spent it on pointless stuff.

The crash landing of the saucer looked really good because it was using high quality movie model effects. Yeah... that's a real (small) saucer hitting a real (small) landscape. For all that the story was shit, the effects of Generations were generally quite good, even if they re-used some shots like the Bird of Prey exploding from STVI.

Elheru Aran wrote:The crash landing of the saucer looked really good because it was using high quality movie model effects. Yeah... that's a real (small) saucer hitting a real (small) landscape. For all that the story was shit, the effects of Generations were generally quite good, even if they re-used some shots like the Bird of Prey exploding from STVI.

heh it wasn't that small, it was 12 feet across

It wasn't like... 1km, so small I just wonder if they actually bunged it into the sandbox landscape, or if they kind of ran it along a zip-line or something like that...

Elheru Aran wrote:It wasn't like... 1km, so small I just wonder if they actually bunged it into the sandbox landscape, or if they kind of ran it along a zip-line or something like that...

Neither, it was on a pole which carried it, underneath

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yOw_xLJuVY

1:30 for the smaller saucer. The bit where you see its front, there's another video with that in, that's 12 feet across. Or well, it's a partial cut of the saucer, if it was the entire saucer it would have been about 30 metres across.

Elheru Aran wrote:It wasn't like... 1km, so small I just wonder if they actually bunged it into the sandbox landscape, or if they kind of ran it along a zip-line or something like that...

a bit of both actually, there's a document about filming that scene in the DvD extras and they had the model on a rail but some of the impacts with landscape were "real" as in the saucer model actually hit the landscape model, they also had a mirror for some shots.

the effects for Generations were done by ILM.

^ see above link

Yeah, I only have the VHS version which doesn't have any specials, so that was fun. Thanks

Well, upon watching the scene I learned a couple of things:

The saucer section almost got away without being disabled. Right as they were about to separate the rate warp core breach accelerated and it blew up sooner than they were anticipating. A few more seconds and they probably could have cleared to a safe distance.

The saucer section is pretty damn tough. It survived the core breach, an uncontrolled entry into an atmosphere, and a level crash landing with the planet. While it may have been damaged beyond repair, the fact that it survived at all is impressive.

And I was kinda sad to see the E-D go. While YMMV on its looks, but it was my first Enterprise.

DaveJB wrote:

Skylon wrote:From a budgetary standpoint though, simply doing away with the damn holodeck scene which serves no purpose other than to scream "MOVIE BUDGET! - WE HAS IT!" would make sense.

What actually happened there was that Jeri Taylor pointed out that the earlier versions of the screenplay - which had the Enterprise-B sequence ending with Kirk's death, then the Romulans attacking and nearly killing everyone on the Amargosa observatory before the Enterprise-D showed up to drive them away, followed by the revelation that Picard's brother and nephew had been killed, and then Soran blowing up the Amargosa sun and abducting Geordi - would be too relentlessly dark and depressing for casual audiences, and suggested that the perfect way to lighten up the film's early sections would be a whimsical period piece on the holodeck. Which, for god knows what reason, ended up being one of two scenes (the other being the stellar cartography sequence) that ate up a disproportionately huge chunk of the budget.

Strangely enough, the producers of the 1960s Batman TV series actually showed more nous when it came to marking smart usage of a theatrical budget; when they made Batman: The Movie they poured most of the money into upgrading the Batcave and making new vehicles and gadgets that could be re-used on the show. Instead of thinking about things that could be carried over to DS9 or the then-in-development Voyager, Berman spent it on pointless stuff.

A humorous scene in Ten Forward would have been just as effective, and cost probably a quarter as much. It could still be Worf's promotion ceremony. Or if they want to be fun about the legacy stuff, hire the actor(s) who played Kang, Kor and Koloth to be a holographic character in the holodeck using the same Klingon Bridge set.

There, you got a reprieve from all the darkness, you have something different from the Enterprise sets, while not breaking the bank on location shooting.

Tribble wrote:Well, upon watching the scene I learned a couple of things:

The saucer section almost got away without being disabled. Right as they were about to separate the rate warp core breach accelerated and it blew up sooner than they were anticipating. A few more seconds and they probably could have cleared to a safe distance.

The saucer section is pretty damn tough. It survived the core breach, an uncontrolled entry into an atmosphere, and a level crash landing with the planet. While it may have been damaged beyond repair, the fact that it survived at all is impressive.

With no loss of life, either.

Although why Civilian Man II decided to stand next to two glass book cases I have no idea


"Yeah, this seems safe."

Tribble wrote:The saucer section is pretty damn tough. It survived the core breach, an uncontrolled entry into an atmosphere, and a level crash landing with the planet. While it may have been damaged beyond repair, the fact that it survived at all is impressive.

If you go by the TM, then the saucer could have been able to correct itself into the lazy S-turn that is stated as the procedure for crash landings. It matches up with the final approach seen in the movie.

SilverDragonRed wrote:

Tribble wrote:The saucer section is pretty damn tough. It survived the core breach, an uncontrolled entry into an atmosphere, and a level crash landing with the planet. While it may have been damaged beyond repair, the fact that it survived at all is impressive.

If you go by the TM, then the saucer could have been able to correct itself into the lazy S-turn that is stated as the procedure for crash landings. It matches up with the final approach seen in the movie.

Troi mentioned that they lost helm control, and they only gain some control over the crash when Data rerouted auxiliary power to the lateral thrusters in order to try and level their descent. By that point the saucer was just seconds from impact. I guess they were lucky enough to have entered the atmosphere at a relatively shallow angle. Or perhaps the atmosphere itself played a role in leveling the E-D? I'm not a scientist here, just a guess.

With no loss of life, either.

Although why Civilian Man II decided to stand next to two glass book cases I have no idea


"Yeah, this seems safe."

I always thought that guy was in a lab doing an experiment or something, and had a really tight deadline to keep.

"I've been running this botany project for the past 10 months and I'm not letting some fucking Klingons screw things up, damnit!"

Tribble wrote:

SilverDragonRed wrote:

Tribble wrote:The saucer section is pretty damn tough. It survived the core breach, an uncontrolled entry into an atmosphere, and a level crash landing with the planet. While it may have been damaged beyond repair, the fact that it survived at all is impressive.

If you go by the TM, then the saucer could have been able to correct itself into the lazy S-turn that is stated as the procedure for crash landings. It matches up with the final approach seen in the movie.

Troi mentioned that they lost helm control, and they only gain some control over the crash when Data rerouted auxiliary power to the lateral thrusters in order to try and level their descent. By that point the saucer was just seconds from impact. I guess they were lucky enough to have entered the atmosphere at a relatively shallow angle. Or perhaps the atmosphere itself played a role in leveling the E-D? I'm not a scientist here, just a guess.

The TM does state that computer takes over in that situation, so Troi losing helm control makes sense. Brian Young made the case in his second Tritanium video, 8:15-14:58 Generations Reentry.

I take the TM as canon except where events on screen contradict it.

There is evidence in the TM to suggest that the re-entry was not controlled. Brian Young did not quote the entire sentence, which reads "if the senior officer aboard the Saucer Module makes the decision that the attempt must be made, special sets of crew procedures and stored computer commands will be implemented."

IMO the process is not automatic and the senior officer in charge must make the decision first before the computer will take over.

Riker didn't make such an order, they lose helm control with no indication that the computer took over, we don't see the E-D complete an S-turn, and Data had to reroute auxiliary power to the lateral thrusters in order to try and level their descent. IMO all evidence points to the re-entry being uncontrolled, save for Data's last minute leveling attempt.

SilverDragonRed wrote: The TM does state that computer takes over in that situation, so Troi losing helm control makes sense. Brian Young made the case in his second Tritanium video, 8:15-14:58 Generations Reentry.

yes and at 10:17 in his own video, he conveniently skips over the paragraph that says:

"Beach sand, deep water, smooth ice and grassy plains on Class M bodies are preferable sites; in contrast, certain terrain types have not been modeled [put in computer memory for auto-landing], such as mountainous surfaces."