Stark Trek Into Darkness *SPOILERS*

[charlemagne]

Why "Into Darkness"? Maybe because there's a rogue admiral that pulls a Saruman and goes dark because he fears that the Federation will be crushed if it doesn't build warships and starts preemptive striking against the Klingons?

[darth_timon]

I thoroughly enjoyed the film. I thought the interaction between Kirk and Spock was a lot better and I liked Admiral Marcus as a villain. Needed more screen time for Sulu and Chekov though.

[mr friendly guy]

Even the "why couldn't they just beam that weapon onto Kronos if they can beam a man from Earth to Kronos?" didn't bother me that much.

Since I'm in such a mood, I would speculate that the order to Kirk to fire the weapons from Enterprise rather than beaming them in was a conscious choice by Admiral Marcus to get Kirk accustomed to the idea of cold-blooded killing and bombarding Klingon worlds. Marcus mentions (he was quoting Pike I think) that Kirk is one of their best and he'd undoubtably want Kirk on the front lines in his desired war.

Or that transport gizmo was a Section 31 prototype that Harrison made one-use-only deliberately in order to avoid this problem.

The more I think about it, the more I think Marcus DID NOT want the plausible denial route. Obviously an object can be beamed onto Kronos undetected. Those missiles might pass through mainly undetected, but they have to heat up on entry into Kronos's atmosphere, so someone will notice, just too late. If Marcus's intention was to start a war, that would be a "reasonable" way to do it. If they killed Khan by beaming it, they can claim it wasn't them. But if the missiles are detected, he will just claim that Starfleet did what needed to be done to protect its citizens, just like say, contemporary American drone strikes into someone else's territory. Unlike those countries which American drone strikes hit, the Klingons are capable of hitting back, which is what Marcus wants.

In summary, Marcus wanted to kill Khan and in a highly visible manner which will piss the Klingons off, and start the war he wants. Obviously it would have been nice if someone asked the question, why don't we just beam the missile in, and makes the audience suspicious that something isn't quite right.

[Battlehymn Republic]

It was an alright film but I can imagine that it would give Trekkies conniptions.

The most disappointing about it was how ugly and generic the new Klingons look, unmasked. With masks on they look cool, but unfortunately Predators are the premiere cool masked warrior aliens, so it's not the most original style.

Also when they do the reveal, Khan just gives out exposition. No flashback, no vivid allusions to anything, he just says he's a bioengineered supervillain and that's it. There's nothing to make it seem momentous or important or something that fits the universe. It just is, like Q appearing and announcing that he's a deity.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Favourite bits for me:

"Oh shit. You talked to him" - made me lol

The Enterprise being attacked in Warp really blew me away - I thought that scene looked amazing and whilst I knew the Enterprise wouldn't explode, I was actually concerned for the ship

Carol having her thigh kicked in half made me wince and I had to look away as Admiral Marcus' head was crushed (tho I know they didn't show it).

Also Spock trying to nerve pinch Khan was kinda funny.

Amazing visuals.

[Flagg]

I just got back and loved it. The best part for me was its relevance. Just like the really good TOS episodes it was ultimately a morality play. The only thing I really didn't like was oldSpock showing up for no reason. They set them up using him in the last movie which was the weakest part of the film. Let them stand on their own two feet for fucks sake. But that's really minor.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm not sure whether using Spock Prime was good or bad. All he tols Spock was that Khan is really dangerous and that they won "at great cost."

To me, it makes sense that Spock would ask Spock Prime about this threat. Even the "no comment" response woudl tell him something. For Spock to have this resource and not use it would feel like a waste I think. It's still a minor thing though.

[Flagg]

Yeah it's just that Nimoy is a terrible plank of an actor. Every role is Spock.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I suppose it goes down as another case of "good idea badly executed/acted."

[Guardsman Bass]

I just saw it, and it was better than I expected. I enjoyed it, even if the pacing occasionally felt weird. Cumberbatch is amazing as Harrison/Khan, down to nailing Montalban's way of speaking the character (I watched Wrath of Khan a few weeks ago).

The overarching plot was better than in the first movie. I thought it was weird that Kirk was back in action as Captain after being demoted for mere hours, only to be sent on a critical mission. But of course, that's because the Admiral considers him expendable, and was counting on Kirk getting himself killed to provoke the war with the Klingons that he thought was inevitable.

But it was annoying that near the end, they got drawn back into the old Star Trek again - down to including a reversed version of the "Spock Death" scene from Wrath of Khan, and even the "Khaaannnn!" scream. That's been a problem with both of the nuTrek movies (I was not a fan of Old Spock showing up in either movie). They keep getting drawn back into the old Star Trek, instead of letting it stand on its own as a re-boot. And virtually all of the tension in the re-treaded death scene was drained by the fact that you know Kirk's going to be alive and kicking again real quick.

[Stark]

Its an odd balance with the old Star Trek; I really like how the actors put effort into echoing the old versions, as they are supposed to be kind-of, sort-of the same people. But I don't like even acknowledging that the old continuity even exists, whether its directly through Old Spock (and his bizarrely continuing existence when he should have died to both echo the death of Vulcan and the death of the old shitheap continuity) or through 'shout out' nerd fanservice bullshit.

Let's just hope, since this movie is Wrath of Khan 2 and also stole Undiscovered Country, that we can get an actual new story next time, where these new and interesting characters are allowed to do shit that doesn't exist solely to placate the long-term fanbase that could never make a movie profitable by itself.

[Patroklos]

Is it really fan service though? Of the trekkies here who is actually happy that Nimoy showed up instead of rolling their eyes? Who isn't disappointed that they remade Wraith of Khan, did it worse, and avoided creating anything new? I am a franchise fan and that didn't make me happy.

I enjoyed the movie, there are plenty of problems I will probably post later, but it was worth my money. The problem is that it is utterly forgetable to me because in their half assed efforts to straddle the reboot and call back at the same time they are not doing either their due.

You can pay homage without actually making the old movies over again scene for scene, and you can have a successful reboot by using the overall feel of the old while having all the specifics your own thing.

That was really my biggest problem with the first movie. If you want to have new movies in the same universe by having a tie in via the whole Spock thing fine but then have to two universe's consistant with each other. Just because they didn't make many good movies with that universe doesn't mean you can't make good movies in that universe. And if you really want to go your own way with reimagining the old TOS era then just do it. They have crippled themselves with not picking a direction.

In any case the thing I liked most about this one was that the characters had a true arch. We saw Kirk and Spock start in one place and end in another (and not just which chair they were sitting in as in the first movie), and though I don't know if I'd call it an arch but I did like Scotty standing up for his principles and resignining. I did not like that they tried to fit in two super villians into one movie when either could have carried it by themselves if they had actually bothered to write a plot instead of kitbashing two other stores together. Khan in particular has so much potentiel for story building even if his general premise is known.

And for the love of God Carl Urban has been either horribly miscast or just can't act. Watching him struggle so spit out those forces sayings is like nails on a chalk board. Its just not natural for him or maybe its just not natural for a charater his age, but it doesn't work. Its not like they have Pike constatnly replicate the Shatner pause.

[Guardsman Bass]

Honestly, I think Karl Urban is great as McCoy, particularly at capturing the voice and mannerisms of DeForrest Kelley's Bones.

[Stark]

People just forgot what he was like when he was young. I've heard similar things about the other actors; they compare them to the 80s performances and appearances rather than the 60s show. Even though he had almost no screen time in the first movie, he really did a great job doing Bones.

And whether or not it is what fans 'like', its fanservice. If there's another reason to constantly bang on about TNG bullshit or re-use plots from old movies, I'm all ears (and I guess 'just plain creatively bankrupt' exists lol). Look at how people are STILL trying to fit the show into some alternate timeline of TNG! I'd hoped after the first movie was a big success that they'd simply jettison the old fans entirely as a consideration, but sadly no. Maybe NEXT time.

[Zor]

So, how far from Earth is Kronos?

Can't be that far, since Archer's Enterprise was able to make the trip from Earth to Kronos in the space of just a few days with a much slower warp drive.

You really don't want to go there even in the old continuity. Trust me.

Well the directors went there, Admiral Marcus had a model of the NX-01.

Zor

[PREDATOR490]

Watched it and found it a rather enjoyable experience. Leaps and bounds above the first with Kirk getting his balls handed back to him for the stupid shit he did... even if it was only a token effort.
Sulu stole the show with his moment in the chair and after that performance I want to see him in charge of the Excelsior.

The silly role reversal with Kirk / Spock was really stupid and I fail to see the point. People who have seen the original trek will instantly know what you are doing and be bored at a rehash and the people who haven't... will use common sense to figure out your not going to kill the main character.
I have no real issue with them throwing back to old Trek as long as they do it sensibly.
I.E Old Spock shows up to bitch he wont tell Young Spock about the future... except when its plot relevant and the movie implies he did it anyway - Trying to have your cake and eat it

[Worlds Spanner]

That was really my biggest problem with the first movie. If you want to have new movies in the same universe by having a tie in via the whole Spock thing fine but then have to two universe's consistant with each other. Just because they didn't make many good movies with that universe doesn't mean you can't make good movies in that universe. And if you really want to go your own way with reimagining the old TOS era then just do it. They have crippled themselves with not picking a direction.

I actually disagree with this. As my fiancee observed after we saw the movie tonight, it's quite clever that the new universe would have some echoes of the old. The jumping off point was only a couple of decades ago. So there's still a Khan, he's just a bit different.

I thought the movie was excellent and great fun, but I did not like the way the end mirrored the end of the 2009 film. Not because it was a problem per se, but because it made the entire move feel like a stall for time - as if Abrams and co. are incapable of making a proper Star Trek film and they know it. I am worried about what might come next.

[Stark]

I.E Old Spock shows up to bitch he wont tell Young Spock about the future... except when its plot relevant and the movie implies he did it anyway - Trying to have your cake and eat it

Serious, he should have just died of grief/old age/futility/whatever instead of hung around to pay Nimoy's mortgage until the day he dies.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Havgin seen it again last night with some Uni friends, the main (additional) questio that I can't et out of my mind is why the hell was Bones experimenting on that Tribble when Kirk recruited Khan? The ship just got blasted to hell and back, there are bound to be considerable casualties...and you're taking the time to run a science experiment?

For some reason that is the main thing that stuck in my head. That and why does the USS Vengeance have a bloody great hole in it's saucer section.

[PREDATOR490]

I.E Old Spock shows up to bitch he wont tell Young Spock about the future... except when its plot relevant and the movie implies he did it anyway - Trying to have your cake and eat it

Serious, he should have just died of grief/old age/futility/whatever instead of hung around to pay Nimoy's mortgage until the day he dies.

It seems the powers that be do not want to fully invest in a complete reboot thus they have these obvious rehash of popular things.

I would prefer Old Spock to go back home and use that to make it clear both universe are completely separate from each other while passing the torch properly.
Since they like doing a rehash of popular moments - Copy the ending of The Undiscovered Country
- New (NuTrek Enterprise) and Old (Enterprise-E) fight alongside each other against a common enemy, obvious candidate is the Borg via V'ger
- Insert ending sequence of them flying alongside each other as the E-E flies off back to its own universe with Old Spock aboard leaving the NuTrek Enterprise to boldly go in a new universe
- Close the book on Old Trek and be done with it

[Flagg]

I.E Old Spock shows up to bitch he wont tell Young Spock about the future... except when its plot relevant and the movie implies he did it anyway - Trying to have your cake and eat it

Serious, he should have just died of grief/old age/futility/whatever instead of hung around to pay Nimoy's mortgage until the day he dies.

It seems the powers that be do not want to fully invest in a complete reboot thus they have these obvious rehash of popular things.

I would prefer Old Spock to go back home and use that to make it clear both universe are completely separate from each other while passing the torch properly.
Since they like doing a rehash of popular moments - Copy the ending of The Undiscovered Country
- New (NuTrek Enterprise) and Old (Enterprise-E) fight alongside each other against a common enemy, obvious candidate is the Borg via V'ger
- Insert ending sequence of them flying alongside each other as the E-E flies off back to its own universe with Old Spock aboard leaving the NuTrek Enterprise to boldly go in a new universe
- Close the book on Old Trek and be done with it

That's the worst thing I've ever read.

[Lilgreenman]

Okay, I'll start my weighing-in by saying that the addition of avid Mr. Plinkett and SFDebris viewer Damon Lindelof to the writing staff really shows here.

People complained about how unrealistic Kirk becoming a captain is in '09, so Pike rants at him about exactly that. Trekkies didn't like how militaristic Starfleet was in both WOK and '09, so Scotty complains about it to Kirk, and goes off to wear his future leisure suit and do shots with Mr. Broccoli. People didn't like how much they had changed and dumbed down the engine room, so we get a close look at the warp core that tries to reconcile the Enterprise one with the TNG-era plasma shafts (this last one didn't work out as well IMO, but he made the effort, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a reference to Galaxy Quest's Omega-13).

I notice several nods to comments made at various points by the aforementioned Mr. Plinkett - that huge shot of Scotty running to the airlock which shows they used a real set rather than a blue screen, the opening sequence that bested ROTS' by being a fast-paced adventure sequence to reintroduce us to the characters that was largely unrelated while still tying in to the plot and having dramatic weight, and more.

Also, a couple outside references I noticed - this seems to have ditched the TNG era's "47" to focus on the more traditional "42" (42 people died in the London explosion, the airlock on the Vengeance is in a room with a big '42' on the wall). I'm not certain, but one of the Vengeance security officers that Kirk and Khan beat up does what I think is a modified Wilhelm scream.

Sorry this is so disorganized - I'm just trying to get my thoughts down.

[Stark]

Did people actually say those things, or was it just nerds? The lol of 'militaristic' Starfleet in the first movie where its explicitly described as the Space UN and the only battles are driven by a lunatic from the future pretty much floors me.

Catering to idiots - pointless.

[Skylon]

Just got back from seeing it. I enjoyed it, even if it was once again candy. But it was good candy, that once again felt like fun Star Trek. Some quick comments:

- I liked the "episode in progress" beginning sequence.
- The characters continue to nail it as fine echos. I liked that there was a "trio" discussion moment with Kirk, Spock and McCoy and hope we get more of that if there is a future film. We got Sulu as Kirk's go-to duty officer, and a nice nod to the fact that he can be a Captain in his own right. I was also glad Scotty had plenty to do in this film. I actually felt Chekov had the least going for him this time out.
- I did not see Pike's demise coming - I guess it was the "destruction of Vulcan" move for this film - telling the audience nobody is safe.
- When Enterprise was first fired on at warp, I really winced at her damage (complete with people getting sucked out into space wile traveling faster-than-light, for the first time since the Ent-A got her double-hull breach in TUC. That said, next film, let's give the Enterprise being super-out-classed a break.
- I was really scared of going the Khan route but it worked. Khan's physicality was more pronounced here, so they at least did something new with the concept of him being a "superman." Also, this Khan had an edge on TOS Khan as Marcus gave Khan access to Starfleet's defenses so he was more learned about 23rd century tech. I'm also glad he's still a madman from the 20th century.
- The entire way they were going to save Kirk played out in my head about ten seconds into him "dying" - but it was a clever reversal of TWOK. More importantly Kirk finally felt like the earned the right to be Captain.
- Oh, and the Klingons weren't in total "space viking" mode at least...even if they broke out the melee weapons.

I think my biggest complaint was the use of TOS Spock. It was uncalled for, and really added nothing the reboot crew couldn't have figured out themselves. They can't run off to TOS Spock for advice every time shit happens.

[DesertFly]

Clearly the whole point of Kirk giving his life for the big E was to show the culmination of his growth into a captain. He was finally able to take responsibility for the decisions he made that got his crew into the mess, even though it meant his life.

I do admit I quite liked it, possibly even more than the last one.