Changes in the Sovereign for Nemesis

[Alyeska]

IIRC the Enterprise-E is 24 decks tall. In Nemesis they were fighting Remans on Deck-29, and a bottomless pit existed below that deck.

[Lancer]

Keep in mind that there was also a long, dark shaft/bottomless pit on a deck that existed "below" the ventral surface of the ship.

ST V? What?

It's when a squad of Remans beams aboard one of the E-E's lower decks (deck 29, while the LCARS display indicates only 24 decks). They encounter a team of security personnel led by Worf and Riker. The lead Reman dives into a laundry shaft or something like it, and lands in a poorly illuminated area. Riker follows suit, while outside a big space battle is going on. Eventually, Riker and the Reman start fighting in hand to hand on a walkway over a deep and dark pit, which breaks due to the space combat outside, causing the Reman to fall to his doom.

[Knife]

It's when a squad of Remans beams aboard one of the E-E's lower decks (deck 29, while the LCARS display indicates only 24 decks). They encounter a team of security personnel led by Worf and Riker. The lead Reman dives into a laundry shaft or something like it, and lands in a poorly illuminated area. Riker follows suit, while outside a big space battle is going on. Eventually, Riker and the Reman start fighting in hand to hand on a walkway over a deep and dark pit, which breaks due to the space combat outside, causing the Reman to fall to his doom.

Ah, I never knew they were suppost to be in the keel in that scene. Thanks. I just figured some random level of no importance.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

IIRC the Enterprise-E is 24 decks tall. In Nemesis they were fighting Remans on Deck-29, and a bottomless pit existed below that deck.

So they were fighting on a deck that's below the lowest deck on the ship with a further deeper pit below that?

Man, I heard the director they got for the film was kind of a moron, but Jesus...

[Bounty]

Man, I heard the director they got for the film was kind of a moron, but Jesus...

In the commentary of the DVD, as the camera is zooming in on the capitol on Romulus, he actually says "...and now we see the Romulans' planet, called Remus..."



I know the guy who did STII didn't care for Trek either, but at least he watched all TOS episodes to get a feel for the series - this guy is just a tool with a OMG T3H COOL obsession.

[Alyeska]

The director who did Nemesis said he was going to go back to roots and do what TWOK did. He fucked up. What TWOK did was look at TOS history and find a worthy villian for a motion picture presence. What the director of Nemesis did was try and copy the plot elements of TWOK while making it look like a TNG movie. I think most of us agree that Sela could have been a far better advesary, and the movie could have bee more of a political or spy thriller then anything else.

[Robert Walper]

The director who did Nemesis said he was going to go back to roots and do what TWOK did. He fucked up. What TWOK did was look at TOS history and find a worthy villian for a motion picture presence. What the director of Nemesis did was try and copy the plot elements of TWOK while making it look like a TNG movie. I think most of us agree that Sela could have been a far better advesary, and the movie could have bee more of a political or spy thriller then anything else.

And what would've been really nice is she isn't killed in the end, and furthermore her plans (whatever they could've been) actually worked for the most part. Perhaps putting the Federation in a pretty tight/difficult spot that could open up possibilities for other movies.

[Uraniun235]

Any good TNG movie with the Romulans needed to have Tomalak around in some capacity.

[Alyeska]

No arguments there. He could have raised in rank and become a Romulan Admiral. A military figure that Picard could respect and whom he has had dealings with in the past. Infact it would be most interesting to see Tomalak have a extreme dislike for the Tal Shiar and other spy organizations and ally with Picard to deal with a potential threat within the Romulan Empire (Sela).

The more I think about it, I realize that Nemesis could actualy have been a spy thriller. We already had the elements in place thanks to TNG and DS9. We know of the Tal Shiar, Starfleet Intelegence, and Section 31. For the moment Section 31 had the Tal Shiar in their pocket. We know about Sela, there is Tomalak, and of course Picard and Data with their past mission. Let us not forget about the possibility of involving Spock in this as well.

[Skylon]

The director who did Nemesis said he was going to go back to roots and do what TWOK did. He fucked up. What TWOK did was look at TOS history and find a worthy villian for a motion picture presence. What the director of Nemesis did was try and copy the plot elements of TWOK while making it look like a TNG movie. I think most of us agree that Sela could have been a far better advesary, and the movie could have bee more of a political or spy thriller then anything else.

I thought the Romulan chick who ended up leading a group of Warbirds to help the Ent-E should have been Sela. Finally make up for nullifying the point of the death of "Yesterday's Enterprise" Yar.

[Alyeska]

I still see Sela as ultimately hating the Federation, but most definately Picard, Data, and Spock in particular. They fucked over her two chances at victory. I see it that Sela got punished by the Romulans for her failures. Potentialy she got sent to Remus (rather then some strange species, just outcast Romulans) where she gained allies. Use of Remus shock troops (much better then shown in Nemesis) by her command in the Dominion War won her prestige and got her some power. Nemesis should be able Sela's attempt to exact revenge on those who wronged her.

[Gil Hamilton]

The director who did Nemesis said he was going to go back to roots and do what TWOK did. He fucked up. What TWOK did was look at TOS history and find a worthy villian for a motion picture presence. What the director of Nemesis did was try and copy the plot elements of TWOK while making it look like a TNG movie. I think most of us agree that Sela could have been a far better advesary, and the movie could have bee more of a political or spy thriller then anything else.

The said thing is that even if he was just copying elements from TWOK and did it with a more TNG theme, it still made more sense to use Sela than make up a new villain. After all part of TWOK was "Return and final defeat of a villain from the series". But that would make sense and be consistant.

[Gil Hamilton]

I thought the Romulan chick who ended up leading a group of Warbirds to help the Ent-E should have been Sela. Finally make up for nullifying the point of the death of "Yesterday's Enterprise" Yar.

Nah. Nemesis could have tied up the thread left unfinished from the Unification Arc. Sela is an ideal villain because she already has beef with the two main protagonists of the movie, Picard and Data, having been beaten several times by them specifically. This is more than enough to make settling their hashes a valid motivation for her. Plus, she has an important place in the Romulan navy, so how she got the Scimitar wouldn't be hard to conceive of. As opposed to a clone of a human who got thrown in a slave pit but some how became an important Romulan commander that just happened to have access to their big awesome ship. Sela was perfect for Nemesis as the villain.

[Stofsk]

I still see Sela as ultimately hating the Federation, but most definately Picard, Data, and Spock in particular. They fucked over her two chances at victory. I see it that Sela got punished by the Romulans for her failures. Potentialy she got sent to Remus (rather then some strange species, just outcast Romulans) where she gained allies. Use of Remus shock troops (much better then shown in Nemesis) by her command in the Dominion War won her prestige and got her some power. Nemesis should be able Sela's attempt to exact revenge on those who wronged her.

How do you explain Sela's remarkable good fortune then, if she were alive in time for Nemesis to exact her revenge? You know that the Romulans execute their Intelligence Officers when they fuck up - Commander Toreth in "Face of the Enemy" tells Troi this over dinner - and Sela not only fucked up the Duras operation, but the Vulcan operation as well. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice shame on you... is what the Romulan tribunal would be saying as Sela is escorted to the execution booths. (or whatever Romulans do to their stupid officers)

That said... Sela would have been better than Shinzon, I'll grant you that.

[Crazedwraith]

I still see Sela as ultimately hating the Federation, but most definately Picard, Data, and Spock in particular. They fucked over her two chances at victory. I see it that Sela got punished by the Romulans for her failures. Potentialy she got sent to Remus (rather then some strange species, just outcast Romulans) where she gained allies. Use of Remus shock troops (much better then shown in Nemesis) by her command in the Dominion War won her prestige and got her some power. Nemesis should be able Sela's attempt to exact revenge on those who wronged her.

How do you explain Sela's remarkable good fortune then, if she were alive in time for Nemesis to exact her revenge? You know that the Romulans execute their Intelligence Officers when they fuck up - Commander Toreth in "Face of the Enemy" tells Troi this over dinner - and Sela not only fucked up the Duras operation, but the Vulcan operation as well. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice shame on you... is what the Romulan tribunal would be saying as Sela is escorted to the execution booths. (or whatever Romulans do to their stupid officers)

That said... Sela would have been better than Shinzon, I'll grant you that.

No, they'd say fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[Stofsk]

Just for that, the Romulans will ship you off to Rura Penthe - er, I mean Remus where you can mine dilithium along with all the other oppressed minorities... er, I mean vampires.

[Alyeska]

Just for that, the Romulans will ship you off to Rura Penthe - er, I mean Remus where you can mine dilithium along with all the other oppressed minorities... er, I mean vampires.

I already covered that issue on what happened to Sela. She did get punished, but then regained some power and allies in the Dominion War.

[Stofsk]

The problem there lies in the fact execution for incompetence often tends to be... permanent punishment.

Like I said though, Sela would have been an improvement over Shinzon of Romulas (I can't type that without giggling).

[Lancer]

Now now. Admiral Valdore failed to plunge the pre-Federation AQ powers into war, indeed, his actions helped precipitate the formation of the Federation, but he has a spiffy ship named after him. This, after being expelled from the Senate for not being hard-line enough.

If a disgraced ex-Senator and Admiral can manage to regain favor, surely Sela, with all her connections via the Tal Shiar, could manage to do so.

[Stofsk]

If I knew who Admiral Valdore was I'd be able to reply to your rebuttal.

[TimothyC]

If I knew who Admiral Valdore was I'd be able to reply to your rebuttal.

Romulan Admiral in ENT. Tried to use the holo-Drones to get the Vulcans, Andorians, Telarites, Rigelians, and Humans to fight each other, his plan backfired. See Season 4 eps: "Babel one" "United" and "The Aenar"

Edit: Stupid minor Stuff (more info added)

[Stark]

Thanks for the pics explaining my n00bish lack of E-E knowledge. I thought the hangar in Alys pic stood out against the hull, but it's in a depression.

BTW, is the new rearfacing double launcher articulated? Looks like it can change elevation.

[Lancer]

Thanks for the pics explaining my n00bish lack of E-E knowledge. I thought the hangar in Alys pic stood out against the hull, but it's in a depression.

BTW, is the new rearfacing double launcher articulated? Looks like it can change elevation.

It looks more like a pop-out launcher to me. Articulation is a possibility though.

[Gil Hamilton]

I already covered that issue on what happened to Sela. She did get punished, but then regained some power and allies in the Dominion War.

Besides, her screw up with the Duras affair wasn't really all that big a pooch screw. She didn't succeed in keeping the Duras' going long enough for them to deal the Klingons an irrepairable blow, but from a Romulan perspective, she didn't really cost them anything. Her operation still cost the Klingons a bunch of their resources, including plenty of very valuable warships and probably generated plenty of inter-house bad blood.

In the end, the Romulans didn't get the win they wanted, but they didn't eat a loss there either. Once the jig was up, Sela could just shrug her shoulders and go "Oh well, the Duras' are on their own" and go home. At best, she probably got some snide comments from other Romulan commanders for not making the Klingon Civil War end with a pro-Romulan head, but really, the way it resolved still wasn't something that Sela could have been seriously punished for. Plenty of Klingons still killed each other and plenty of ships were blown up for practically no cost to Romulan admiralty and it barely even had their fingerprints on it.

Now, the events revolving around the Vulcans was a fuck up for Sela and a major embarrassment, especially since her plan had absolutely no hope of success, but given she's been at the head of two major operations, chances are she's a big enough fish that her career took the stroke, rather than her head.

[Death from the Sea]

could the bulge on the back of the ship between the saucer and the engineering section be more armor like on the Galaxy upgrade?