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Havok
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Post by Havok »

Bubble Boy wrote:The first picture is the best one of the bunch, although our artist is correct and the TL's need some improvement.

And the whole "make the Enterprise blowing up" bullshit is annoying. Yes, we fucking know already, the ISD would squash the Enterprise like a bug. Now can we see the model of the ship or are we stuck with just an explosion to satisfy the dicks of the wankers here?
Oh wah wah wah. Who cares if the E-D is blowing up, he was posting to test his EFFECTS not the models.

We may be dicks and wankers, but at least we can read properly.
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Post by 1138 »

wjs7744 wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I've never used ambient occlusion, I guess I should look it up and try it out. Area lights are a bit of a problem, they often come out looking, oh I don't know, would "grainy" be the right word? I read something somewhere about 7-point rigs, I guess that's something I could check out. And as for lighting being a pain, I'll second that. It doesn't really help that I haven't seen any good tutorials, so I'm kind of making it up as I go along. Hell, I don't even know what a fill light is, I just stuck three lights in the scene and hoped for the best.
fractalsponge's suggestion for GI works. It'll just be slower if you're using Lightwave's internal renderer (there are tricks to help you with that, though, and the FPrime plugin is very nice / fast although quite costly). Ambient occlusion and using light arrays helps you fake some of the GI effect by providing less flat shadows. Read up on Ambient occlusion, it's pretty neat.

As for Area lights, you have to either use more anti-aliasing passes or up the Area light quality. The area lights are grainy because they "sample" the lighting. Each additional pass of AA will get you more samples, so upping the AA will make it look better. Increasing Area light quality increases the number of samples, assuming the AA passes are constant, so it'll also reduce graininess. It'll be slower though.

There are key lights (the main light in the scene providing the most illumination) and fill lights (the other ones that light the scene up). So pick one to be the dominant light source and use the others as fill lights.
wjs7744 wrote: The turbolaser is a bit of a problem, though, as lightwave doesn't allow volume lighting for linear or area lights for some reason. This means I have been using particles for them, which don't really work. Maybe if I use a linear light for illumination, and a really narrow spot for the bolt itself, that might work... And yeah, they look really wimpy for the heavy guns, but since I think the heavy turbolaser bolts might be bigger than the ship itself, I'm sticking with the little effect for now. Rendering out an entire frame that has been saturated by the blast would really be cheating.
Look for Dave Jerrard's laser tutorials. You can adapt it to make turbolasers bolts. It's written for LightWave 5.6 but you just have to map features to whatever version you're using.
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Post by fractalsponge1 »

I did the original model (version 1) and version 2. Fabio Passaro did the conversion of v1 into lightwave. Global illumination is required for a decent image, no buts :). If you can open the ISD mesh on your machine it can handle GI renders. Not putting in the time to render out a proper image is like making an AMRAAM with Jello as the warhead - sure it's cheaper to make, but what the hell is the point? Your key light (the primary light source and shadow-casting light of the scene) should also have raytraced shadows.

What I mean by rendering out separately is to render out a frame with only the turbolaser but with an alpha channel, then take that and adjust the contrast, color, and brightness in photoshop say, and then reimpose it on a diffuse channel render of the ships (also with an alpha channel), and then put the background separately from that. That way, you can adjust the properties of each element of the piece without arranging it so that it all works out with one set of conditions (a very difficult thing to do).
wjs7744 wrote:...fractalsponge? As in, the same guy who made this model to begin with? I had no idea I would run into you here! Thanks for the advice, although I don't really understand some of it.
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Post by wjs7744 »

OK, I redid the weapon effects. I'm still not convinced that radiosity is really worth it in space shots, though; most of the rays will just hit the black backdrop, and have no effect on the image. I rendered out the image twice, once with radiosity and once without, and though they look different, I can't say that one seems vastly superior to the other to me.

Regular lighting:
Image

Radiosity enabled:
Image

So, are the new weapon effects any good?

P.S., I put this in the same thread, if this is necro-ing, and I should have started a new one, please someone tell me so I don't do it again. Thanks.
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Post by Sidewinder »

The radiosity enabled one is brighter, and in my opinion, better looking. The new weapons effects are awesome.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by Havok »

Definitely better. Maybe, tone down the green glow from the TLs on the SD since the bolts have already traveled a bit and the muzzle blast would have died down some.

I can't really give a good reason why, other than it just looks more right to me, but I like the first one better. The regular lighting.

Good job.
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Post by Covenant »

Your phaser bolt is casting shadows, isn't it?
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Post by wjs7744 »

Sidewinder wrote:The radiosity enabled one is brighter, and in my opinion, better looking. The new weapons effects are awesome.
havokeff wrote:Definitely better. Maybe, tone down the green glow from the TLs on the SD since the bolts have already traveled a bit and the muzzle blast would have died down some.

I can't really give a good reason why, other than it just looks more right to me, but I like the first one better. The regular lighting.

Good job.
Thanks. For a bit of perspective, the regular lighting one took about 5 minutes to render, while the radiosity render took over an hour and a half. While it certainly improves some scenes vastly, I just don't think it's worth it for space scenes, where it has little effect.
Covenant wrote:Your phaser bolt is casting shadows, isn't it?
Shit, you're right. Well, at least that is one of the easiest things to fix.

Shadows removed, and bolt lighting toned down:
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Post by Havok »

Word. :)

P.S. What is wrong with phaser bolts casting a shadow. It is a solid beam that other light wouldn't penetrate right? :?:
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Post by wjs7744 »

havokeff wrote:What is wrong with phaser bolts casting a shadow. It is a solid beam that other light wouldn't penetrate right? :?:
I dunno whether it ought to leave a shadow, you're probably right it should. However, I'm pretty sure that phasers don't have a shadow in the shows, so I won't give it one either. I probably ought to add in some lighting for the beam at some point, like I did with the turbolasers. I think it improves the scene, and there are no problems with it canonically, either (Image).
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Post by Chardok »

Can you make the starfield more...dense? I'd like to put this on my desktop at work, it just needs that one little extra piece of awesome.
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Post by Havok »

Chardok wrote:Can you make the starfield more...dense? I'd like to put this on my desktop at work, it just needs that one little extra piece of awesome.
Don't do it until he agrees to take that damn Santa hat of his AV! :evil:

I, personally, like the subdued star field... gives it a sense of being in REALLY deep space.
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Post by matus1976 »

wjs7744 wrote: The turbolaser is a bit of a problem, though, as lightwave doesn't allow volume lighting for linear or area lights for some reason. This means I have been using particles for them, which don't really work. Maybe if I use a linear light for illumination, and a really narrow spot for the bolt itself, that might work... And yeah, they look really wimpy for the heavy guns, but since I think the heavy turbolaser bolts might be bigger than the ship itself, I'm sticking with the little effect for now. Rendering out an entire frame that has been saturated by the blast would really be cheating.
I mentioned this in the other thread but I thought Id go into more detail. I made my turbo laser bolts by make 3 objects, one inside another, which made up the actual bolt. Those were set to transparent edges with glow added, and the further toward the center the lighter the green color I used and the more glow and luminosity I set with it. I also stuck a lens flare light at the front of the bolt, and with anti aliasing and motion blur, the bolt traveling ends up looking pretty decent, I think. I still need to work on it alot more for my final animation.
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Post by wjs7744 »

Chardok wrote:Can you make the starfield more...dense? I'd like to put this on my desktop at work, it just needs that one little extra piece of awesome.
Sure I can accommodate that. The reason the stars look like that is because I'm using a large sphere composed of individual points. I can either make it denser, or I have some images a bit like the ones here floating around on my hard drive somewhere. Hell, seeing as this will mean re-rendering it anyway, I can even change the resolution, or move the camera so the left side of the screen is empty (I leave my icons arranged at the left).
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Post by Chardok »

I like the 9th image on that page alot. The "Bluey" stars are too trek-like for my tastes, I dig the "All white stars" field. This one, for reference.

And as for left side empty, I do that as well (Icon arrangement), so that would be even more awesomeness! the resolution is perfect as it is, though :D

Havokeff - want santagunny gone? It'll cost you one sketch of Mr. Fantastic breakdancing on RANDOM_SIDEWALK_12309834 whilst superheroes on one side of the display are all wearing expressions like "OH SNAP! DAAAYUM!" and villains on the other side are like "PUH LEEZE!"

It's a DANCE-OFF! OF ULTIMATE DESTINY!


And WJS - your reward for this awesome pic will be a pic of ME at my compy with your pic set as my background! LUCKY YOU! ;)
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Post by wjs7744 »

OK, here are some with the prettier stars for a background. You didn't say which one you prefered, so I just did both.

Ships exchanging fire:
ImageImage

Enterprise exploding:
ImageImage

Yes, I know the explosion is a weird blue colour, and no I haven't a clue why, since it's set to be an orange fiery one.
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Post by fractalsponge1 »

The bolts are much improved.

I'd do a much brighter key light, a little blue; star wars space shots tend to have a very harsh light source, with the rest much more shadowed.

The starfield could do much better imho. Right now it's a bit too regular in patches. You can see it in the thumbnails, with large clumps of stars that are a little too uniform in brightness.
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Post by wjs7744 »

fractalsponge1 wrote:The bolts are much improved.

I'd do a much brighter key light, a little blue; star wars space shots tend to have a very harsh light source, with the rest much more shadowed.

The starfield could do much better imho. Right now it's a bit too regular in patches. You can see it in the thumbnails, with large clumps of stars that are a little too uniform in brightness.
You mean something like this?

Image

I've evened out the stars somewhat, and boosted the light level.

I'm getting a bit bored of rendering the same thing, and I'd like to show the Enterprise blowing something up for a change. Trouble is, I can't think of anything weak enough for them to beat. :oops:
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Post by Aaron »

Any Earthforce ship from B5 should do.
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Post by Chardok »

wjs7744 wrote:I'm getting a bit bored of rendering the same thing, and I'd like to show the Enterprise blowing something up for a change. Trouble is, I can't think of anything weak enough for them to beat. :oops:

How about some Gunstars? (From The Last Starfighter) Personally, I've always wanted to see more Gunstars in pics like this. I think they're beautiful ships.
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Post by Darth Fanboy »

"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
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Post by JME2 »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Alright, that made my morning.

Nice lighting touch-up on the revamped pics.
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Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Have the Ent blow up the Battlestar Galactica. To piss people off.
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Post by Sidewinder »

That's hilarious.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by Havok »

I bow to your superior skill sir. :lol: :lol:
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