Agent Smith vs Mace Windu

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Agent Smith vs Mace Windu

Post by Omega-13 »

OK 2 Scenario's

*assumption* Agent Smith is a real character now who can take a lot of bumps and hits, but can die from a bullet, but apparantly not strong punches or kicks

a) Both meet each other in the subway station from the movie "matrix"
Smith has his hand gun, and Mace with his light sabre, both don't watch each other there.

b) Both meet each other in the subway station, but neither has any weapons

*for those who haven't seen Agent smith in action in awhile, go get your matrix VHS or dvd and watch the Neo and Agent smith fight in the station*
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
User avatar
Exonerate
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4454
Joined: 2002-10-29 07:19pm
Location: DC Metro Area

Post by Exonerate »

Yoda is probably too slow to block bullets, and Smith can throw a pretty decent punch. I can see Yoda with a lightsaber, but punching and kicking just seems a bit funny to me.

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
User avatar
Sir Sirius
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2975
Joined: 2002-12-09 12:15pm
Location: 6 hr 45 min R.A. and -16 degrees 43 minutes declination

Post by Sir Sirius »

What has Yoda got to do with this scenarion?
And why do you think he is slow?

With weapons Windu wins, without weapons Agent Smith wins.
Image
User avatar
Exonerate
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4454
Joined: 2002-10-29 07:19pm
Location: DC Metro Area

Post by Exonerate »

Eep. I was thinking Yoda instead of Windu. Sorry. As said before, I have doubts even if a Jedi can dodge/deflect bullets.

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
User avatar
Alyeska
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 17496
Joined: 2002-08-11 07:28pm
Location: Montana, USA

Post by Alyeska »

It is the Precog capability that allows Jedi to dodge bullets and blasters. They can see where the shot is going to happen and they can react to it quickly enough to avoid being directly in the path. The person firing can not adjust their aim because typically the Jedi can move faster. On the other hand Agents can not react to something that has not happened yet. What they must do is SEE the object coming at them, determine that it is heading straight for them, and dodge out of the way. This requires incredibly fast reflexs, fast mental comprehension, and the ability to move the entire body at high speeds. This is supported by the fact that they can move so fast as to appear to be in multiple places at once.

What happens is that Smith is thinking about making an attack on Windu. Windu has precog of this and prepares himself, maybe even starting to react. Smith attacks, but as he is making his move he SEES that Windu is going for a block. Smith now alters his attack. Windu can not react quickly enough and is hit by Smith.

Now, some of you are going to see that Windu will see the ULTIMATE attack that Smith makes and block that. The problem is that Smith will see such a block being made and will alter his attack. Simple fact of the mater is that smith is to fast for Windu to defeat.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Well with precog abilities Windu would always be a step ahead. He would always know whats coming, BUT he would not always be able to react fast enough.

Kinda like a Geonosis, bet you those Jedi saw the blasts coming, they just couldn't react to them. To that end, with a lightsaber Windu wins. Without, Smith owns him.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Telekinesis. Duh. Windu wins.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Exonerate
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4454
Joined: 2002-10-29 07:19pm
Location: DC Metro Area

Post by Exonerate »

Erm, in TPM, you can see the Jedi running really quickly. Blaster bolts are fast, but not as fast as bullets... Smith moves so fast that he can dodge multiple bullets without moving his feet.

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

He can't dodge a minigun (we saw that), and he certainly can't dodge a Force-push. I reiterate: Smith loses. Since he's been made mortal in this scenario, he's done.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Exonerate
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4454
Joined: 2002-10-29 07:19pm
Location: DC Metro Area

Post by Exonerate »

Mace can't dodge a minigun either. In any case, I'm saying that Mace can't dodge bullets, and I wasn't taking his telekinesis into account.

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

I suppose, but he could always steal some one elses body, say, some one with a truck. :twisted:

I'd like to see Windu stop a truck going 60mph, telekenesis or not. Although I suppose luck could be on his side. Unless of course, in his experience, there's no such thing as luck.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Exonerate
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4454
Joined: 2002-10-29 07:19pm
Location: DC Metro Area

Post by Exonerate »

But there is the force :wink: Mace might be able to dodge the truck...

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose, but he could always steal some one elses body, say, some one with a truck. :twisted:
No, he can't. That's part of the scenario; this is like saying Mace Windu would use his Jedi Starfighter to annihilate the whole area.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

I guess, but being a body snatcher IS one of Smiths abilities. Its a natural thing, unlike bringing something to the battle.

But I suppose the thread did suggest a simple slug fest. Force choke. Watch 'em die. Laugh.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Alyeska
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 17496
Joined: 2002-08-11 07:28pm
Location: Montana, USA

Post by Alyeska »

One note. It seems that the real speed Agent Smith has is in close range. He can move really fast while in a relative stand still to dodge bullets. But he can not run that fast and can be overwhelmed by bullets. He can fight faster then normal, but not grossly so. However he can throw punches relatively fast. Without a Light Sabre, Mace likely will loose. With a light Sabre, well even with some of Smith's speed, it isn't fast enough to dodge completely to one side to avoid being cleeved in half by the light sabre.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
User avatar
Sir Sirius
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2975
Joined: 2002-12-09 12:15pm
Location: 6 hr 45 min R.A. and -16 degrees 43 minutes declination

Post by Sir Sirius »

Would a Jedi use the Force as a weapon? Doesn't using the Force as a weapon lead to the dark side, or something like that?

In any case can't remember a scene from the movies where a Jedi would have used the Force as a weapon, other then Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pushing the battledroids around in TPM, but those push's were not used against a living being and weren't powerful enough to kill Smith.
Image
Enforcer Talen
Warlock
Posts: 10285
Joined: 2002-07-05 02:28am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Post by Enforcer Talen »

episodes 4-6. obiwan and luke cut through people like there's no tomorow.
Image
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6
DOOMer WoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Sirius you are correct, the droids weren't a living being, they were definately more DURABLE than a living being though. Human organs are fragile to concussions. Droids made of steel are not. Something that can pick a man up and hurl him 20 ft across the room should be damn deadly (Dooku to Anakin AOTC).This however does bring up an inconsitency, the use of Force pushes on living beings. This has only been observed in Jedi vs. Jedi scenarios however.

So this can mean a couple of things, either A.) The Force push doesn't apply as much pressure as it visually appears, maybe like the Force 'lifting' the thrown object up, carrying it over some distance, and then dropping it? Or B.) the Jedi can somehow repel a large bulk of a Force push somehow, through use of the Force?
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Sir Sirius
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2975
Joined: 2002-12-09 12:15pm
Location: 6 hr 45 min R.A. and -16 degrees 43 minutes declination

Post by Sir Sirius »

Enforcer Talen wrote:episodes 4-6. obiwan and luke cut through people like there's no tomorow.
With a lightsaber, yes. With Force choke, Force lightning or by throwing people around with telekinesis, no.
Image
User avatar
Sir Sirius
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2975
Joined: 2002-12-09 12:15pm
Location: 6 hr 45 min R.A. and -16 degrees 43 minutes declination

Post by Sir Sirius »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Sirius you are correct, the droids weren't a living being, they were definately more DURABLE than a living being though. Human organs are fragile to concussions.
Agent Smith isn't a human and did take one hell of a beating with out going down or even suffering serious injuries in Matrix.
This has only been observed in Jedi vs. Jedi scenarios however.
Sith Vs. Jedi matches you mean, with the Sith using lightnings and telekinesis to attack the Jedi.
Image
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Sir Sirius wrote:Agent Smith isn't a human and did take one hell of a beating with out going down or even suffering serious injuries in Matrix
The thought never even crossed my mind. Sorry. :oops:

Sith Vs. Jedi matches you mean, with the Sith using lightnings and telekinesis to attack the Jedi.[/quote]Same difference (don't argue with me on that!).
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
Enforcer Talen
Warlock
Posts: 10285
Joined: 2002-07-05 02:28am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Post by Enforcer Talen »

Sir Sirius wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:episodes 4-6. obiwan and luke cut through people like there's no tomorow.
With a lightsaber, yes. With Force choke, Force lightning or by throwing people around with telekinesis, no.
to use a lightsaber effectively, one has to be shrouded in the force; sensing actions and the like. isnt that edging the darkside, sensing what they are going to do, so you can avoid it and kill them?
Image
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6
DOOMer WoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
User avatar
Darth Garden Gnome
Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
Posts: 6029
Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
Location: Some where near a mailbox

Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

Enforcer Talen wrote:to use a lightsaber effectively, one has to be shrouded in the force; sensing actions and the like. isnt that edging the darkside, sensing what they are going to do, so you can avoid it and kill them?
If the Jedi is acting in self-defence than no. If the Jedi is acting on his impulses: anger, fear, agression ect. that yes.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution
User avatar
Yogi
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2163
Joined: 2002-08-22 03:53pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Yogi »

Does Agent Smith have any internal organs to mess with? Mace can conceivably hold him in the air, but he'll have to have some way to apply more telekinetic pressure than Agent Smith can take (and Agent Smith takes LARGE amounts of blunt trauma and still comes out OK.) If Mace has his lightsaber however, all it takes is one hit.

Then there is the question on how fast a Jedi can hold someone in the air. All cases of sustained telekinetic power on a large scale has been accompanied by at least a few seconds of concentration beforehand. Can Smith plug Mage Windu beforehand?
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!

-- Vaarsuvius, from Order of the Stick
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Smith is still based on human software hardwired to their system--he has organs. He was choked by a clever thrust of Neo's fingers, so yes, he does.

The only thing Smith seems able to do w/ his rapid recognition and movement is dodge bullets, he doesn't aim and fire his gun hyper-fast like he dodges or he would've shot Neo way earlier then he did.

This way, I see it, Windu wins both.

Even w/out a lightsabre, Windu will just use the Force to bring a wall down on him, steal his gun, smash him into a wall, or like Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon, simply pick him up, and crush his ribcage on his internal organs w/ the Force.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
Post Reply