Agent Smith vs Mace Windu
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Agent Smith vs Mace Windu
OK 2 Scenario's
*assumption* Agent Smith is a real character now who can take a lot of bumps and hits, but can die from a bullet, but apparantly not strong punches or kicks
a) Both meet each other in the subway station from the movie "matrix"
Smith has his hand gun, and Mace with his light sabre, both don't watch each other there.
b) Both meet each other in the subway station, but neither has any weapons
*for those who haven't seen Agent smith in action in awhile, go get your matrix VHS or dvd and watch the Neo and Agent smith fight in the station*
*assumption* Agent Smith is a real character now who can take a lot of bumps and hits, but can die from a bullet, but apparantly not strong punches or kicks
a) Both meet each other in the subway station from the movie "matrix"
Smith has his hand gun, and Mace with his light sabre, both don't watch each other there.
b) Both meet each other in the subway station, but neither has any weapons
*for those who haven't seen Agent smith in action in awhile, go get your matrix VHS or dvd and watch the Neo and Agent smith fight in the station*
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It is the Precog capability that allows Jedi to dodge bullets and blasters. They can see where the shot is going to happen and they can react to it quickly enough to avoid being directly in the path. The person firing can not adjust their aim because typically the Jedi can move faster. On the other hand Agents can not react to something that has not happened yet. What they must do is SEE the object coming at them, determine that it is heading straight for them, and dodge out of the way. This requires incredibly fast reflexs, fast mental comprehension, and the ability to move the entire body at high speeds. This is supported by the fact that they can move so fast as to appear to be in multiple places at once.
What happens is that Smith is thinking about making an attack on Windu. Windu has precog of this and prepares himself, maybe even starting to react. Smith attacks, but as he is making his move he SEES that Windu is going for a block. Smith now alters his attack. Windu can not react quickly enough and is hit by Smith.
Now, some of you are going to see that Windu will see the ULTIMATE attack that Smith makes and block that. The problem is that Smith will see such a block being made and will alter his attack. Simple fact of the mater is that smith is to fast for Windu to defeat.
What happens is that Smith is thinking about making an attack on Windu. Windu has precog of this and prepares himself, maybe even starting to react. Smith attacks, but as he is making his move he SEES that Windu is going for a block. Smith now alters his attack. Windu can not react quickly enough and is hit by Smith.
Now, some of you are going to see that Windu will see the ULTIMATE attack that Smith makes and block that. The problem is that Smith will see such a block being made and will alter his attack. Simple fact of the mater is that smith is to fast for Windu to defeat.
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Well with precog abilities Windu would always be a step ahead. He would always know whats coming, BUT he would not always be able to react fast enough.
Kinda like a Geonosis, bet you those Jedi saw the blasts coming, they just couldn't react to them. To that end, with a lightsaber Windu wins. Without, Smith owns him.
Kinda like a Geonosis, bet you those Jedi saw the blasts coming, they just couldn't react to them. To that end, with a lightsaber Windu wins. Without, Smith owns him.
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Telekinesis. Duh. Windu wins.
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He can't dodge a minigun (we saw that), and he certainly can't dodge a Force-push. I reiterate: Smith loses. Since he's been made mortal in this scenario, he's done.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
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I suppose, but he could always steal some one elses body, say, some one with a truck.
I'd like to see Windu stop a truck going 60mph, telekenesis or not. Although I suppose luck could be on his side. Unless of course, in his experience, there's no such thing as luck.
I'd like to see Windu stop a truck going 60mph, telekenesis or not. Although I suppose luck could be on his side. Unless of course, in his experience, there's no such thing as luck.
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No, he can't. That's part of the scenario; this is like saying Mace Windu would use his Jedi Starfighter to annihilate the whole area.Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose, but he could always steal some one elses body, say, some one with a truck.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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One note. It seems that the real speed Agent Smith has is in close range. He can move really fast while in a relative stand still to dodge bullets. But he can not run that fast and can be overwhelmed by bullets. He can fight faster then normal, but not grossly so. However he can throw punches relatively fast. Without a Light Sabre, Mace likely will loose. With a light Sabre, well even with some of Smith's speed, it isn't fast enough to dodge completely to one side to avoid being cleeved in half by the light sabre.
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Would a Jedi use the Force as a weapon? Doesn't using the Force as a weapon lead to the dark side, or something like that?
In any case can't remember a scene from the movies where a Jedi would have used the Force as a weapon, other then Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pushing the battledroids around in TPM, but those push's were not used against a living being and weren't powerful enough to kill Smith.
In any case can't remember a scene from the movies where a Jedi would have used the Force as a weapon, other then Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pushing the battledroids around in TPM, but those push's were not used against a living being and weren't powerful enough to kill Smith.
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episodes 4-6. obiwan and luke cut through people like there's no tomorow.
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Sirius you are correct, the droids weren't a living being, they were definately more DURABLE than a living being though. Human organs are fragile to concussions. Droids made of steel are not. Something that can pick a man up and hurl him 20 ft across the room should be damn deadly (Dooku to Anakin AOTC).This however does bring up an inconsitency, the use of Force pushes on living beings. This has only been observed in Jedi vs. Jedi scenarios however.
So this can mean a couple of things, either A.) The Force push doesn't apply as much pressure as it visually appears, maybe like the Force 'lifting' the thrown object up, carrying it over some distance, and then dropping it? Or B.) the Jedi can somehow repel a large bulk of a Force push somehow, through use of the Force?
So this can mean a couple of things, either A.) The Force push doesn't apply as much pressure as it visually appears, maybe like the Force 'lifting' the thrown object up, carrying it over some distance, and then dropping it? Or B.) the Jedi can somehow repel a large bulk of a Force push somehow, through use of the Force?
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Agent Smith isn't a human and did take one hell of a beating with out going down or even suffering serious injuries in Matrix.Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Sirius you are correct, the droids weren't a living being, they were definately more DURABLE than a living being though. Human organs are fragile to concussions.
Sith Vs. Jedi matches you mean, with the Sith using lightnings and telekinesis to attack the Jedi.This has only been observed in Jedi vs. Jedi scenarios however.
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The thought never even crossed my mind. Sorry.Sir Sirius wrote:Agent Smith isn't a human and did take one hell of a beating with out going down or even suffering serious injuries in Matrix
Sith Vs. Jedi matches you mean, with the Sith using lightnings and telekinesis to attack the Jedi.[/quote]Same difference (don't argue with me on that!).
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to use a lightsaber effectively, one has to be shrouded in the force; sensing actions and the like. isnt that edging the darkside, sensing what they are going to do, so you can avoid it and kill them?Sir Sirius wrote:With a lightsaber, yes. With Force choke, Force lightning or by throwing people around with telekinesis, no.Enforcer Talen wrote:episodes 4-6. obiwan and luke cut through people like there's no tomorow.
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If the Jedi is acting in self-defence than no. If the Jedi is acting on his impulses: anger, fear, agression ect. that yes.Enforcer Talen wrote:to use a lightsaber effectively, one has to be shrouded in the force; sensing actions and the like. isnt that edging the darkside, sensing what they are going to do, so you can avoid it and kill them?
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Does Agent Smith have any internal organs to mess with? Mace can conceivably hold him in the air, but he'll have to have some way to apply more telekinetic pressure than Agent Smith can take (and Agent Smith takes LARGE amounts of blunt trauma and still comes out OK.) If Mace has his lightsaber however, all it takes is one hit.
Then there is the question on how fast a Jedi can hold someone in the air. All cases of sustained telekinetic power on a large scale has been accompanied by at least a few seconds of concentration beforehand. Can Smith plug Mage Windu beforehand?
Then there is the question on how fast a Jedi can hold someone in the air. All cases of sustained telekinetic power on a large scale has been accompanied by at least a few seconds of concentration beforehand. Can Smith plug Mage Windu beforehand?
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Smith is still based on human software hardwired to their system--he has organs. He was choked by a clever thrust of Neo's fingers, so yes, he does.
The only thing Smith seems able to do w/ his rapid recognition and movement is dodge bullets, he doesn't aim and fire his gun hyper-fast like he dodges or he would've shot Neo way earlier then he did.
This way, I see it, Windu wins both.
Even w/out a lightsabre, Windu will just use the Force to bring a wall down on him, steal his gun, smash him into a wall, or like Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon, simply pick him up, and crush his ribcage on his internal organs w/ the Force.
The only thing Smith seems able to do w/ his rapid recognition and movement is dodge bullets, he doesn't aim and fire his gun hyper-fast like he dodges or he would've shot Neo way earlier then he did.
This way, I see it, Windu wins both.
Even w/out a lightsabre, Windu will just use the Force to bring a wall down on him, steal his gun, smash him into a wall, or like Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon, simply pick him up, and crush his ribcage on his internal organs w/ the Force.
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