The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

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Postby Lord Poe » 2006-05-26 01:52am

Master of Ossus wrote:First of all, thanks to everyone who tried to walk me through asking to have my ban reviewed by a (relatively) impartial moderator. Unfortunately, all of my efforts to contact someone proved fruitless. It's been 72 hours, though, and I have not been unbanned. Do I have to fill out another request form to get my posting "privileges" back, again?

Update: Anytime they want to unban me is fine with me.


Its clear they're pruning all "six" of us at TFN and sw.com at the behest of Traviss. You can go to Forum Feedback on sw.com and see how they're treating Nex there.
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Postby Mange » 2006-05-26 02:51am

Lord Poe wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:First of all, thanks to everyone who tried to walk me through asking to have my ban reviewed by a (relatively) impartial moderator. Unfortunately, all of my efforts to contact someone proved fruitless. It's been 72 hours, though, and I have not been unbanned. Do I have to fill out another request form to get my posting "privileges" back, again?

Update: Anytime they want to unban me is fine with me.


Its clear they're pruning all "six" of us at TFN and sw.com at the behest of Traviss. You can go to Forum Feedback on sw.com and see how they're treating Nex there.

That's fucking unbelieveable. :evil: They just make rules up on the spot. And Dark Moose is forgetting that Sue Rostoni welcomed a discussion on the issue.

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Postby The Original Nex » 2006-05-26 11:02am

And the thing is, they can do that because Mods have basically free reign over there as per the Terms of Service.

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Postby Master of Ossus » 2006-05-26 01:57pm

ROFL!

e-mail response I just got wrote:If you feel you were banned erroneously, please contact DarthSapient
(Head Admin) via PM.

mailhost.in.snowball.com @ 5/26/2006 7:21:52 AM


How are you supposed to PM someone if you're BANNED? At least they let me back in, finally.
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Postby Mange » 2006-05-26 04:30pm

Looks like dp4m is on a banning spree again. I don't like that the mods edits the posts and removes the posted message. If you are going to object to something, then the original message is gone.
Last edited by Mange on 2006-05-26 04:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Original Nex » 2006-05-26 04:30pm

Well Jim Raynor it seems they got rid of your dissent right and quick now didn't they? :x

They are really going crazy over there.

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Postby Jim Raynor » 2006-05-26 04:42pm

The Original Nex wrote:Well Jim Raynor it seems they got rid of your dissent right and quick now didn't they? :x

They are really going crazy over there.


According to them, I violated the TOS, which is pretty generic and vague, disallowing the usual offensive or hateful language. In case he decided to delete my post, I'll describe what I said. All I did was ask the douchebag mod why any accusation of lying would result in a ban, instead of just false accusations of lying. I also told him that it was reassuring that TFN valued "civility" over honesty. That's it. I didn't curse, or use any direct insults.

I'm really not surprised that I was banned though. But I won't be begging these fuckers to let me back in. That board is crap.
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Postby Master of Ossus » 2006-05-26 05:11pm

I issued dp4m an ultimatum via PM. If he wants me out of there, I will leave, but otherwise I won't stand for him telling me I can't use the second person in discussions with other people.

He edited my last message because I said, "You get in trouble on SD.net for not putting any effort into your posts (for instance by posting without reading the thread). It's not like it is, here. The environment there is different--some people prefer that one, some people prefer this one. It's clear that you fit in the latter category."

He also totally ignored the very next statement I made, "It may be surprising, but most people on SD.net much prefer the environment over there to the one on TFN--including many posters who also post on TFN. The rules are different, there, and clearly cater to a different population, but that does not necessarily make one better or worse."

Edit: What the hell: I don't respect dp4m, so I figure it's okay to post our private correspondence.

I wrote:Look, you obviously don't like me. I don't know why, as I've never had any problems with any moderators in the past, but I've clearly exhausted the good will the years of productive posting have earned me here. If you want me to leave, then say so and I will leave the boards, but I don't want to play this game with you reprimanding me every time I write in the second person. At the very least I've earned the right to be told straight up what's going on.

-Michael Blackburn


Here's his reply:

dp4m wrote:Let's look at what you posted, shall we?

Correction: A moderator got on and said "Read the title before posting, D******."

You get in trouble on SD.net for not putting any effort into your posts (for instance by posting without reading the thread). It's not like it is, here. The environment there is different--some people prefer that one, some people prefer this one. It's clear that you fit in the latter category"

At what point did you think it would be a good plan to try and divine what another user was thinking, especially regarding their posting habits at other sites and how it has absolutely no relation to what goes on here?

What relevance did that have to anything in the discussion, other than to speak to another person's habits?

Don't do it. Don't assign character judgments to people. Don't try and read tea leaves about preferences. Just stick to the discussion and you will be fine.


I basically told him to blow me:

I wrote:Let's look at what you posted, shall we?

At what point did you think it would be a good plan to try and divine what another user was thinking, especially regarding their posting habits at other sites and how it has absolutely no relation to what goes on here?


The guy said in the post that I was replying to that "at least over here, we don't have that many people calling Karen a ***** and such." From such a statement, it is perfectly justified to say that someone prefers this atmosphere to the one he was comparing it to. That was not "divination." He TOLD US. As for having "absolutely no relation to what goes on here," I agree it was a thread hijack--which is why I was surprised that no moderators had split the thread after his post. Why go after someone for REPLYING to an off-topic post, rather than the guy who made the first off-topic post.

What relevance did that have to anything in the discussion, other than to speak to another person's habits?

I was responding, directly, to something that someone else had said. I understood that that was, generally, allowed on TFN.

Don't do it. Don't assign character judgments to people. Don't try and read tea leaves about preferences. Just stick to the discussion and you will be fine.

Once again: You obviously don't like me. If you want me to leave, then tell me and I will leave. I have posted here for years and never had any problems--even earning praise from people like Keralys, LTNOWIS, Ryan Kaufman, and many others for my posting habits, and I have also religiously assisted the moderators here whenever I felt I could help. So I'm willing to help you out, again: if you want me to leave, then tell me and I will leave.

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Postby Knife » 2006-05-27 12:57am

Hmm, all those interesting theads seem to be blasted into oblivion. :?
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Postby Master of Ossus » 2006-05-27 01:05am

Knife wrote:Hmm, all those interesting theads seem to be blasted into oblivion. :?


That's all via PM. I wouldn't DARE violate the rules of another forum, afterall, by bringing moderator abuse to a public forum.
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Postby ray245 » 2006-05-27 02:13am

Should I post a topic of star wars vs star trek and see if they will be tempted to use the 200 gigaton figures...if they do..that means they admit defeat.. :D

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Postby Lord Poe » 2006-05-27 02:36am

What the fuck is going on? Does Traviss have video of Lucas fucking a sheep or something? Randy Stradley vented on HIS MESSAGE BOARD about how he couldn't continue reading Traviss' "Triple Zero" due to the bullshit content. Then, he had to administer an immediate apology to Traviss!

But Hidalgo openly attacked Curtis Saxton on those very same boards....with no reprocussions.
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Postby Jim Raynor » 2006-05-27 02:59am

Can one of you guys with an account at TFN please go to the Odds thread and smack down LtNOWIS's latest round of bullshit? I was in a debate with him when I was banned. His arguments are pathetic and easily refuted (this retard actually thinks poorly-made droids are worse than no droids at all, and that there isn't any inter-system communication in SW). Amusingly, I've been owning him with retarded quotes from his own precious Odds. However, knowing the kind of people who go to that board, I can't be entirely sure that they won't confuse getting the last word with victory.
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Postby Knife » 2006-05-27 11:30am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Knife wrote:Hmm, all those interesting theads seem to be blasted into oblivion. :?


That's all via PM. I wouldn't DARE violate the rules of another forum, afterall, by bringing moderator abuse to a public forum.


I was actually refering to the ODDS thread.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Postby Master of Ossus » 2006-05-27 07:14pm

dp4m has posted several times, and he hasn't bothered to respond to my PM, yet, so I'm guessing that I'm not banned.
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Postby VT-16 » 2006-05-27 07:15pm

At this time, any additional information might serve little purpose, but I did come across something that might be constructed as supporting multiple GARs:

Chewbacca is a veteran of the Clone Wars, the galaxy-wide conflict that pitted the clone armies of the Republic against the droid forces of the Confederacy of Independent Systems


Of course, it could be a general statement about all the various parts of the GAR fighting on different fronts, but if not, something like this could be used to retcon parts of the Insider 84 article as talking of one typical GAR among many.

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Postby The Original Nex » 2006-05-27 10:15pm

Is that from the RotS ICS or VD?

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Postby VT-16 » 2006-05-28 04:44am

OS profile on Chewie.

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Postby Mange » 2006-05-28 04:59am

Also, General Grievous tells the Seperatist Council on Utapau that: "It won't be long before the armies of the Republic track us here."

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Postby VT-16 » 2006-05-28 10:02am

If only we could retcon the Insider-article from "The Grand Army of the Republic" into "A Grand Army of the Republic" everything would be solved. No upper limit, no lower limit.

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Postby Sriad » 2006-05-28 02:51pm

Mange the Swede wrote:Also, General Grievous tells the Seperatist Council on Utapau that: "It won't be long before the armies of the Republic track us here."


...but you see, his perceptions have ALSO been clouded by Master Of Deception Palpatine. They were actually tracking him with two clones, three girl scouts, and their adorable Jack Russel Terrier, Scraps.

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Postby The Original Nex » 2006-05-28 05:25pm

their adorable Jack Russel Terrier, Scraps.


Not Wishbone? :P

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Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2006-05-28 08:45pm

Sriad wrote:
Mange the Swede wrote:Also, General Grievous tells the Seperatist Council on Utapau that: "It won't be long before the armies of the Republic track us here."


...but you see, his perceptions have ALSO been clouded by Master Of Deception Palpatine. They were actually tracking him with two clones, three girl scouts, and their adorable Jack Russel Terrier, Scraps.


Next minute they are going to retcon that they fit driods into those armour and pretend every thing is fine and dandy.

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Postby Sriad » 2006-05-28 10:14pm

The Original Nex wrote:
their adorable Jack Russel Terrier, Scraps.


Not Wishbone? :P


They wanted Wishbone, but the budget just wasn't there. :(

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Postby Fire Fly » 2006-05-29 06:09pm

Well, I was skimming through video.google.com, looking for some Clone War clips when I fell across this piece:

Link

Anyways, I decided to do some rough estimations (others are free to make their own estimates) and I came up with interesting numbers. I thought it would actually be easier to work my way from inside the battle outwards, as I wouldn't make double counts. Venator Star Destroyers which were the same ships in prior snap shots were labeled R and those which were not were labeled with a number.

Image

Image

Image

After I went through each picture labeling the proper ships, I tallied up all of the ships and came to a count of 28. Then, using some rough proportioning, I slowly worked my way out again until the very final picture which had a picture size of 727 x 510 while the size of the selected green frame was 55 x 40 (with the green frame representing screen 3). Taking the two areas and finding how many of the green frames fitted into the larger picture, I came to a rough estimation of 169.

Image

Image

Assuming that the distribution of Venators is roughly the same as it was in the select frame, I made the following estimations. So, assuming a conservative Venator distribution of 23 per green frame, I came up with a figure of 3864 Venators. Assuming the 28 I found, I came up with a number of 4732. Assuming an upper estimation of 33, I came up with 5577.

Multiplying these figures by the Venator troop capacity (3,900; I couldn't find a source so I relied on wikipedia), I came up with 15 million, 18.4 million, and 21.7 million, respectively.

Using the same method for star fighters (with a compliment of 420 fighters per Venator), I came up with 1.6 million, ~2 million, and 2.3 million respectively.

Given these rough estimations, its clear that several millions of clone troopers were deployed in the naval battle and even several millions more (hundreds of millions at least) were deployed on the ground. Coincidently, this fits perfectly with the 1:50 rule.
Last edited by Fire Fly on 2006-05-29 08:52pm, edited 1 time in total.


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