Emperor Palpatine vs. Overlord Shimrra

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2006-01-17 03:58pm

I was browsing through the NJO novels I have bought and started thinking which one would win in a straight fight - Palpatine or Shimrra. At least according to The Unifying Force the Supreme Overlord is a capable and deadly fighter an nearly killed Luke Skywalker in their decisive battle before getting his head chopped off. And as we have seen in RotS, Palpatine isn't a weakling, either. So, perhaps through the mysterious will of the Force, an act of God, a fickle hand of fate, or some other strange event, these two tyrants of the worst degree meet each other and are going to have a final showdown.

Besides, I do wonder how they would react to each other. Shimrra would most likely have few words to say to an infidel who styles himself as the ruler of the galaxy, while Palpatine might be a little bit dismayed with Shimrra's apparent lack of Force connection of any kind.

Coriolis · Post by **Coriolis** » 2006-01-17 04:06pm

I think Palpatine would kick Shimrra's ass, but that's only based on my vague memories of the NJO. I think that Luke was still a bit weaker than Palpatine was at the time of the battle.

I haven't read NJO in a while, but IIRC, the NJO authors really weakened the overall strength of the Jedi (correct me if I'm wrong). If Luke had pre-NJO powers, I'm sure he could've given Shimrra a sound thrashing.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2006-01-17 04:20pm

Palpy kicks Shimrra's ass no question, if he can defeat 3 Jedi Masters without even trying then Shimrra is only an annoyance, a bug to by swatted.

IIRC though Shimrra isn't really the Supreme Overlord though he's merely a puppet, a battle between Omni, the true Supreme Overlord, and Palpy would be slightly more interesting even if the result would be the same.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-17 04:40pm

The Yuuzhan Vong wouldn't have made it till Coruscant with Palpatine still alive.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2006-01-17 05:11pm

I think people are overestimating Palpitine and underestimating Luke here.

Luke has grown in power and skill to this point that frankly I think he would easily bitchslap Palpatine and HE had trouble with Shimrra. In the final battle with Jacen and Jania, they, two Jedi of not inconsiderable experience and power, couldn't even follow his movements, he was moving so fast he was a force huracane taking on ten, twenty vong warriors at a time and winning.

And even Luke had trouble with the slayers and Shimrra combined. I think Palpitine would as well. His lightsabre battle against Mace wasn't anything like as insane as what 'The Unifying Force' describes Luke doing and force powers like lightning don't work (depending on what book you read, traitor and destinys way both say the exacy opposite on that).

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-01-17 05:30pm

The Vong may be able to be affected by lots of the Force, but Force Lightning works wonders on them. (ref most of the NJO during and after Star by Star).

"DIE INFIDEL"

Palpatine: Some kinda of stupid droid (fires enough Voltage to light up Coruscant for a week)

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-01-17 05:32pm

The force lightening and Vong issue is somewhat muddled. True in Star by Star, Jaina zaps a vong but in Traitor Jacen is unable to. So one can't really count on it.

Netherless Palpatine ha enough skill with a lightsabre, to slice and dice the overlord.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-01-17 06:35pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:I think people are overestimating Palpitine and underestimating Luke here.

Luke has grown in power and skill to this point that frankly I think he would easily bitchslap Palpatine and HE had trouble with Shimrra. In the final battle with Jacen and Jania, they, two Jedi of not inconsiderable experience and power, couldn't even follow his movements, he was moving so fast he was a force huracane taking on ten, twenty vong warriors at a time and winning.

And even Luke had trouble with the slayers and Shimrra combined. I think Palpitine would as well. His lightsabre battle against Mace wasn't anything like as insane as what 'The Unifying Force' describes Luke doing and force powers like lightning don't work (depending on what book you read, traitor and destinys way both say the exacy opposite on that).

The radio drama of Dark Empire described the climactic duel aboard the Eclipse between Palpatine and Luke Skywalker in similar term. They moved so quickly Leia could not make out their movements.

Besides, comparing the filmic duels to the novel descriptions are pointless anyway. The novel versions of filmic duels are frequently described in the same grandiose style. So either you assume the film duels are nerfed for some reason or that we're watching it slowed down or watching segments where they're more actively using the Force to limit one another mobility, in contrast to amplifying their own mobility, which may be off-screen or simply an alternative fighting philosophy which is captured in the novels but not the screen.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-01-17 06:57pm

Force Crush would still work on Shimra. Or a modified version using the Force to increase the atmospheric pressure around him. If his armor protects him, it's still possible to strangle him like Tahiri tried to do after her capture on Yavin 4.

Coriolis · Post by **Coriolis** » 2006-01-17 06:59pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Force Crush would still work on Shimra. Or a modified version using the Force to increase the atmospheric pressure around him. If his armor protects him, it's still possible to strangle him like Tahiri tried to do after her capture on Yavin 4.

IIRC, the Vong only have body armor, not any headgear, so I guess you can increase the pressure until the head explodes.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2006-01-17 07:02pm

Toothy Palpatine smirk.....

Suck it down, biogunk bitch!!

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-01-17 07:32pm

Imagine the effect of Palpatine throwing stuff into the Overlord at high speed....

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-01-17 08:16pm

Mr CorSec wrote:Palpy kicks Shimrra's ass no question, if he can defeat 3 Jedi Masters without even trying then Shimrra is only an annoyance, a bug to by swatted.

Recall that Palpatine was actively clouding the Force at the time of his attack, and as he sliced through the Jedi masters, they're looking really confused, as though they have no idea what's going on. This is not an ability he'll be able to use on Shimrra, so the fact he defeated three Jedi masters nearly simultaneously doesn't really have any bearing on this versus.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-01-17 08:22pm

It was demonstrated in the execrable Traitor that Force lightning – even that used by an ill-trained half-wit like Jacen Solo – can in fact harm the Vong, their vaunted 'absence' from the Force notwithstanding. Of the five times that Darth Sidious has been seen to participate in an actual fight in the films or in the Expanded Universe – two in Revenge of the Sith, one in Return of the Jedi, and two in Dark Empire – he has thrice begun by resorting immediately to Sith lightning; it would not be out of character for him to begin any confrontation with the Supreme Overlord with Sith lightning. Nor is it out of character for him to resort to merely overwhelming him with psychokinetic missiles; he showed little hesitation to make use of whatever was weighty and handy in his duel with Yoda, and coincidentally at the same time he showed that he is capable of hurling sufficiently large objects with sufficient force to cripple or kill a mundane person, sado-masochistic cult and genetic modification notwithstanding.

This is, of course, to say nothing of the fact that whereas Master Skywalker is mostly self-trained, Lord Sidious is the heir to over a thousand years of traditions, disciplines, and curricula. This is the same man that trained Darth Maul from birth and inspired outright fear in the likes of Darth Tyranus and Darth Vader, the same man who effortlessly killed three of the finest swordsmen in the Jedi Order, defeated Yoda, and stood toe-to-toe with Mace Windu – and, most importantly, has none of Skywalker's deeply-held reservations or inhibitions, who is free to summon power from the blackest depths of the dark side. However impressive the vaunted Golobulus-in-Space might be when cast against the fearsome biotechnological hordes of Cobra-La, the awesome military might of the New Republic Defense Force, or the resolute courage of the New Jedi Order, he is quite simply not in the same league as the Galactic Emperor.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-01-17 11:46pm

Or to trim Pub's eloquent post down to a mere two words: UNLIMITED POWAR!!1!

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-01-18 10:52am

Publius wrote:It was demonstrated in the execrable Traitor that Force lightning – even that used by an ill-trained half-wit like Jacen Solo – can in fact harm the Vong, their vaunted 'absence' from the Force notwithstanding.

Actually as I said before, Traitor shows Jacen compley unanble to use force lightening to any effect of Vong. I quoteth:

Page 165 Traitor Paperback wrote: He remembered swirling within the red tide, remembering feeling Vergere lose consciousness, remebered reaching for a new target, a new victim reaching for Nom Anor with the lightening that had felled Vergere-
And being unable to find him.
He could see the Yuzhaan Vong executor, could hear him shouting orders to the warriors around them all, but he could not touch him with the lightening. There haf been a circuit missig: the lightneing would gound harmlessly into the floor or the walls or arc back to make Vergere's unconscious body spasm in convulsions. the lightening of his rage could only span gap between poles of the force - neither Nom Anor nor his warrios could conduct that current

Star-by-Star however has Jaina blasting a whole through a Vong's chest and Destiny's Way has the same Jacen Solo using a stun from of lightening on the Vong.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-01-18 11:35am

You are correct, thank you.

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-01-18 03:16pm

I'm by no means an expert in the NJO, but the fact that Jaine was able to use force lightning effectively whereas Jason was not could be that, for whatever reason, Jason is unable to channel as much Dark Side power (at least by the time of Traitor), as opposed to some inherent immunity on the side of the Vong.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2006-01-18 04:18pm

One of the Dark Jedi (who appeared for no reason other than to betray the good guys and were never heard from afterwards) in Star By Star made some kind of funky force energy net that was seen cutting into a Yuuzhan Vong.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-18 04:51pm

consequences wrote:One of the Dark Jedi (who appeared for no reason other than to betray the good guys and were never heard from afterwards) in Star By Star made some kind of funky force energy net that was seen cutting into a Yuuzhan Vong.

Oh they where heard from again. I direct your attention to the Dark Nest Trilogy where the 2 Dark Jedi reappear along with the apprentice they abducted.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-01-18 05:13pm

Blackjack Simmons wrote:I'm by no means an expert in the NJO, but the fact that Jaine was able to use force lightning effectively whereas Jason was not could be that, for whatever reason, Jason is unable to channel as much Dark Side power (at least by the time of Traitor), as opposed to some inherent immunity on the side of the Vong.

Intresting theory, however the constant allusion to Jacen's darkside as a 'red tide' makes me think that he had plenty of dark side power running through him. Though the fact that Jacen manges to hurt himself while using force lightening (A feat never done before or after as far as I can remember) may count in your favour.

Personally I think it could be a psycological issue, Jaina doesn't give a damn a bout the force's nature and just wanted to kill soem vong and it worked for her. While Jacen's got the whole deep-seated doubts and mental issues that may be subconsciously fucking up his efforts.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2006-01-18 05:25pm

Lord Pounder wrote:
consequences wrote:One of the Dark Jedi (who appeared for no reason other than to betray the good guys and were never heard from afterwards) in Star By Star made some kind of funky force energy net that was seen cutting into a Yuuzhan Vong.
Oh they where heard from again. I direct your attention to the Dark Nest Trilogy where the 2 Dark Jedi reappear along with the apprentice they abducted.

I've been avoiding those. So for my revised bitch: who appeared for no reason other than to betray the good guys and steal their ride, and were never heard from afterwards during the NJO.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Emperor Palpatine vs. Overlord Shimrra

Which one would win in a fight?

Emperor Palpatine vs. Overlord Shimrra