A Call to Arms

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

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Alyeska
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Post by Alyeska » 2002-11-27 12:02am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Alyeska wrote: Well, a group effort does show him just how unwanted he is. Especially if Kamikazi Sith and myself join up. We are some of the more vocal trekkies on the board and it would send him reeling to see us siding against him so actively.
The Darkstar thread on SB also has Chris going up against him......I'm sure he would be more than willing to help. Then there is also Darkling over here.
That would put a heavy core of Trekkies to move against DarkStar. He can't deny the fact that two people who are listed on Wong's hate mail page are discrediting his ideas. Even a brain as thick as his can understand something as obvious as this.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."

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Post by FaxModem1 » 2002-11-27 12:04am

I would like to help, but the simple fact is I'm not good at science or mathmatics, but I am good at politics and a little good at common sense.

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Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2002-11-27 12:05am

FaxModem1 wrote:I would like to help, but the simple fact is I'm not good at science or mathmatics, but I am good at politics and a little good at common sense.
I believe all that is required here is your knowledge of ST and SW.

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Alyeska
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Post by Alyeska » 2002-11-27 12:10am

FaxModem1 wrote:I would like to help, but the simple fact is I'm not good at science or mathmatics, but I am good at politics and a little good at common sense.
I hardly know all that much when it comes to the calculations that people use. But I have a rather encyclopedic knowledge of Trek and more then once I have pointed out where people made incorrect statements or assumptions about Trek. If I can find mistakes DarkStar has made in his claims about Trek (not the firepower issue), I can nail him on it.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."

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Post by FaxModem1 » 2002-11-27 12:38am

OH, I can do that. :D

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Post by Mayhem » 2002-11-27 03:53am

Alright... he's annopyed me enough that even i'm getting into this whole thing. I haven't debated this shit for years now cause I got tired of dealing with people like him... but good lord, this guy... :roll:

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Post by Chris OFarrell » 2002-11-27 04:54am

............guys, its not possible. I would have thought the last six months would have shown that. You CAN'T defeat Darkstar as he simple is incapable of admiting he is wrong. And I mean this utterly seriously. You CAN'T defeat someone who refuses to admit it. I mean, everyone over the web runs around and utterly smashes his points......but it does not matter as he refuses to acknowledge it. In the current thread on SB, everyone has pointed out:

'Ok, scout walkers are not so tough. Who cares? They are lightly armed and armoured walkers designed for mobility and scouting, not as the Empires biggest and most powerful/tough assault walker (read AT-AT which alone disproves his claims of the AT-ST being made for that role or the Empire not being able to build stronger then the AT-ST).

He just ignores them and says the walkers are crap thus all of the Empires ground walkers are crap and weak.

Its not POSSIBLE to put a smackdown on him as he refuses to acknowledge he HAS been smacked down. ITs like what Q said about the Borg.

"You can't outrun him. You can't destroy him. If you smackdown him, the essence of what he is remains, he regenerates and keeps comming. Eventualy you will lose your patience and temper and walk away...his is an ubertroll"

If your willing to smackdown him, by all means have fun (heck I'll help anyway I can). But if you think it will shut him up............
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Post by TheDarkling » 2002-11-27 07:22am

It wont effect him but I always said this would be a good idea during the first MOO Vs Darkstar age so I would like to see it done .

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Post by Ender » 2002-11-27 09:02am

I have dibs on this page

http://ocean.otr.usm.edu/~randers2/STSWkamino.html

I just got off a 12 hour night watch where I came up with three, maybe 4 ways to disprove it. For the 4th way, does anyone have a thought as to where I could find and compare the star densities shown onscreen and relative to what they would be like in different parts of the galaxy?
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Post by Ender » 2002-11-27 09:29am

In addition, I really think we need to get ASVS on board here. This will be more effective the more voices pointing out his flaws. Edam and the other trekkies there loath him with a passion, as has already been shown, and The various witticism like you find on the FUQ would just be good.
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Post by Alyeska » 2002-11-27 10:21am

Mr Evil Dude (DarkStar) sent me another PM

http://ocean.otr.usm.edu/~randers2/STSWOssus1.html
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."

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Post by data_link » 2002-11-27 07:05pm

To Mr. Robert Scott Anderson (Darkstar):

First let me congratulate you on your mastery of fallacious debating techniques. As a veteran intellect, I know just how hard it is to defend a position for which you have absolutely no evidence, and I am impressed that you have managed to hold out this long. It seems that you are a man of immense talent in the field of rhetorical bullshitting. What is even more astounding is the level of honesty your work appears to have; if I were not better informed, I would be of the impression that you actually believe what you are saying. With talent like that, you could go far in this world.

Having said that, it seems that your talents are misapplied. You see, as popular as both Star Wars and Star Trek are, there simply aren't very many people that are interestend in a scientific debate utilizing fiction as a premise, which substantially limits your readership. I would recommend that you diversify your efforts into defending the existence of paranormal phenomenon and extraterrestrial encounters, both of which are far more popular than SW vs. ST debates. Not only would it be easier to find "evidence" in the form of rediculously distorted frame-by-frame analyses of videotapes, but your target market will probably not hear rebuttals from the opposing side of the debate as often, reducing the probability of statements such as "Bullets don't do damage based on force and pressure" being debunked. Further, this is a more profitable market - books on paranormal phenomena are some of the best selling in the world. In fact, one such book, A Comprehensive Study on Mythology and the Paranormal[/i], later renamed The Holy Bible, has become the basis of most of the world's major religions.

In fact, if you are so inclined, you could even attempt to start your own religion. This highly profitable strategy has been successfully employed in the past by L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the Church of Scientology, who is now one of the richest people on Earth. While doing this correctly is of course, very difficult, I believe that you are sufficiently good at lying to pull it off. You do have one major advantage over Hubbard - you have readily availabe to you a huge mass of potential converts, known as trekkies. I suggest that you take advantage of it by having your religion advocate communism, engineering incompetence, inconsistency, bad uniforms, sexual repression, erasure of individuality, and prohibition of all literature written after 1900. While some of these things may be a bit unsavory, I guarantee that they will increase your success at decieving the general public into believing that you are the keeper of the "One true path."

Regardless of whether you accept my suggestions or not, I wish you good luck in your carrer as a professional liar.

Best regards,

data_link.
data_link has resigned from the board after proving himself to be a relentless strawman-using asshole in this thread and being too much of a pussy to deal with the inevitable flames. Buh-bye.

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Post by Ender » 2002-11-27 07:23pm

Gestures to sig

He really said that
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Re: A Call to Arms

Post by Lord Poe » 2002-11-27 08:07pm

Ok, MOO, stuff like this really pisses me off:
Master of Ossus wrote:Whenever possible, this will be done without the use of EU material--our only weapons will be the ones that DarkStar himself uses to compile his crap,
WTF are you doing? Why are you limiting your LEGITIMATE resources to combat this asshole? You are playing his game, making it look like the PROPER Canon and EU information can't be used in conjunction with one another.

This is not the way to do it.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny » 2002-11-27 08:17pm

Any fivers we can get in on this, I'm not good or educated enough to get on to this debate, but I think it would be good to have a fanboy of a universe not involved.

Either way this could be good.

Can't wait to see the remake of some LotR quotes that come from this.
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Post by Ender » 2002-11-27 08:33pm

بيرني كان سيفوز
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Post by FaxModem1 » 2002-11-28 02:58am

This is shaping up like the Battle of the Line(I'm a fiver, what do you expect?) all theforces ar gathering for one target, except its not Earth this time, its DARKSTAR!!!!!!!

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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2002-11-28 03:47am

How sad:
"Now, in the A Call To Arms thread, you have declared a Warsie Jihad against me. "

Doesn't he understand that it's a fiver/trekkie/warsie/etc. jihad against him?
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Post by Anarchist Bunny » 2002-11-28 11:59am

His Divine Shadow wrote:How sad:
"Now, in the A Call To Arms thread, you have declared a Warsie Jihad against me. "

Doesn't he understand that it's a fiver/trekkie/warsie/etc. jihad against him?
THEY ARE ALL WARSIES IN DISGUISE! I AM THE ONLY TRUE TREKKIE! THEY WANT TO TAKE MY PRECIOUS IGNORANCE AWAY FROM ME. YESSSS, BUT THEY ARE WRONG, AREN't THEY, PRECIOUS?
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Post by FaxModem1 » 2002-11-28 09:34pm

THEY ARE ALL WARSIES IN DISGUISE! I AM THE ONLY TRUE TREKKIE! THEY WANT TO TAKE MY PRECIOUS IGNORANCE AWAY FROM ME. YESSSS, BUT THEY ARE WRONG, AREN't THEY, PRECIOUS?
Geez, would someone please give this guy a tranquilizer?

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Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2002-11-28 09:37pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
THEY ARE ALL WARSIES IN DISGUISE! I AM THE ONLY TRUE TREKKIE! THEY WANT TO TAKE MY PRECIOUS IGNORANCE AWAY FROM ME. YESSSS, BUT THEY ARE WRONG, AREN't THEY, PRECIOUS?
Geez, would someone please give this guy a tranquilizer?
He is making fun of Darkstar........ :wink:

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Re: A Call to Arms

Post by Master of Ossus » 2002-11-29 12:14pm

Lord Poe wrote:Ok, MOO, stuff like this really pisses me off:
Master of Ossus wrote:Whenever possible, this will be done without the use of EU material--our only weapons will be the ones that DarkStar himself uses to compile his crap,
WTF are you doing? Why are you limiting your LEGITIMATE resources to combat this asshole? You are playing his game, making it look like the PROPER Canon and EU information can't be used in conjunction with one another.

This is not the way to do it.
Three reasons I'm doing it this way. You can launch your attack differently, if you want.

1. I don't want to get involved in another pointless debate with DarkStar over what is reasonable to include in the debates and what is not. Darth Wong's debate with DarkStar on this very topic demonstrated clearly to me that he cannot be swayed by any amount of evidence on this subject, and that continued debate on the matter will merely result in circular arguments, that depart from and return to the exact same point without any significant change on either side. This attack is to take place solely on the basis of what appears on his website, and not why it is there.
2. Many fans do, by personal preference, only accept canon material from the movies, novels, etc. Thus, the only potential gain from a debate such as the one above is to get DarkStar to admit that his choice is a matter of preference, and not necessarily the "correct" choice in the matter.
3. I can defeat almost all of DarkStar's points by only using what is in the canon--I've done it before, multiple times (his refusal to acknowledge defeat not withstanding), and I can do it again. At the same time, an attack that uses only sources that DarkStar makes available to himself is more likely to demonstrate clearly to the other denizens of the web that DarkStar is fatally wrong on all important issues. Should I be able to defeat him soundly, using only canon material, it would lend still more credence to the pro-Wars position on the internet, by defeating the most rabid and ardent Trekkie without the use of any EU material.

Having said that, I will use EU material to debunk whatever pages that DarkStar has that do use EU material. I obviously cannot debunk his page on BDZ's without EU material, as BDZ's only appear in EU material.

I encourage the rest of you, if we make separate attacks, to use EU material to destroy his page. To do this, you will doubtless find yourself going in circles, again, over what is and is not applicable, but it seems to be a small price to pay to crush him as badly as is doubtless possible, using such additional material. If you do decide to do it this way, I would strongly recommend focusing on the ICS. If the ICS can be made more canonical than the rest of EU material, it will quite obviously destroy the Trekkie position on this matter.
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Post by Master of Ossus » 2002-11-29 12:17pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:How sad:
"Now, in the A Call To Arms thread, you have declared a Warsie Jihad against me. "

Doesn't he understand that it's a fiver/trekkie/warsie/etc. jihad against him?
In the west, the term "Crusade" is usually more favorable, however both would be equally accurate statements. In any case, I clearly asked for and received aid from many non-Warsies, including but certainly not limited to: Alyeska, Darkling, and Kamikaze Sith. If someone would be generous enough to bring this message to ASVS, the attack would doubtless gain additional support there. Even many of the non-Warsies on SB.com, I believe, are tiring of his stupidity.
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Post by Ender » 2002-11-29 08:53pm

Master of Ossus wrote:In the west, the term "Crusade" is usually more favorable, however both would be equally accurate statements.
Yes, but In Scooters simplistic mind, Islam = evil, and Anyone who disagrees with him = warsies = evil. Hence how he makes the link to using Jhiad
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Post by Master of Ossus » 2002-11-29 11:49pm

Ender wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:In the west, the term "Crusade" is usually more favorable, however both would be equally accurate statements.
Yes, but In Scooters simplistic mind, Islam = evil, and Anyone who disagrees with him = warsies = evil. Hence how he makes the link to using Jhiad
In Scooter's simplistic mind, the UFP could defeat the Galactic Empire easily.
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