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 Post subject: ISD: Stronger Shields than Constitution PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:11pm
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Assuming that:
  • Wong's figures with respect to ISD shield durability are correct relative to amount of energy in terms of photon torpedo equivalents. It's Wong's site, I think I can use his figures here without too much protest as to their unfairness, no?
  • TOS era torpedos have a rated total yield equal to at least the "effective impact strength" considered for TNG torpedoes in Wong's comparison - i.e., the ~half strength given by an undirected radial explosion. Half strength TOS vs TNG torpedos may be a bit low, but let's run with it.
  • The "energy equivalent of a torpedo" is its rated yield. Rather than theoretical potential, which could be quite a bit higher.
  • Star Trek shields decline in a purely linear fashion with respect to input energy. Yes, I know the last 5-10% can seem to take forever to get rid of. That's dramatics for you..
  • TOS Season 2 is canon material to use in determine the nature of Star Trek technology. Gene Roddenbury would say it's Star Trek - his fingerprints are all over it - and Paramount acknowledges it as a TV series and therefore canon. If TOS Season 2 is not canon, I'm not sure what is meant by the term.


Given this base set of assumptions, it is then possible to determine the relative strength of the shielding of a Constitution class vessel by the standard of the ISD. As it so happens, Episode #38 (TOS Season 2) provides a readily understandable measurement of the Constitution class's capacity for energy absorbtion through shielding. PT shall represent the energy yield of a TOS torpedo and the assumed "effective energy impact" (half yield) of a TNG torpedo (these were assumed equivalent above.)

Quote:
Our shields absorbed energy equivalent to 90 of our photon torpedoes.
90?
I may add the energy used repulsing this first attack reduced our shielding power 20%.


Shielding power is reduced by 20% with a single attack of 90 PT. Thus, an instantaneous attack of 450 PT should bring the shields down.

An ISD, as we know from Wong's calculations, requires (within the span of a half hour) 1000 PT to take its shields down.

Thus, on a single ship vs ship basis and taken on these five assumptions, it is not unreasonable to conclude that an ISD has stronger shields than the stock model Constitution class. Kirk would thus not win a toe to toe battle with an ISD on stronger shields, alas and alack.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:35pm
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err. . .aside from regurgitating something that's pretty much common knowledge, (ie - the constitution class's shields being weaker than pretty much anything in star wars), what's the point? *scratches head*



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:49pm
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Darth_Zod wrote:
err. . .aside from regurgitating something that's pretty much common knowledge, (ie - the constitution class's shields being weaker than pretty much anything in star wars), what's the point? *scratches head*


I think he's trying to say that an ISD couldn't harm the connie. Well nothing new on that sector

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:52pm
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Lord Revan wrote:
I think he's trying to say that an ISD couldn't harm the connie. Well nothing new on that sector
Place your bets on how long it takes this thread to be locked.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:54pm
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Darth Servo wrote:
Place your bets on how long it takes this thread to be locked.

As soon as some mod bothers to read it.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:55pm
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Cult of the Connie nonsense eh? And if 90 photon torpedoes only knock a shield down by 20% why are lone Klingon warships or even Romulan warbirds threats to the Enterprise?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:55pm
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Lord Revan wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:
err. . .aside from regurgitating something that's pretty much common knowledge, (ie - the constitution class's shields being weaker than pretty much anything in star wars), what's the point? *scratches head*


I think he's trying to say that an ISD couldn't harm the connie. Well nothing new on that sector


Wrong. he's saying that one-on-one an ISD wpould beat a Connie. Which is hardly new infomation and quite strange since he uses Mike's site for references. I would have thought that anyone reading Mike's site (and agrreing with it) would auto-matically come to that conclusion.



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 Post subject: Re: ISD: Stronger Shields than Constitution PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:57pm
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tjhairball wrote:
Thus, on a single ship vs ship basis and taken on these five assumptions, it is not unreasonable to conclude that an ISD has stronger shields than the stock model Constitution class. Kirk would thus not win a toe to toe battle with an ISD on stronger shields, alas and alack.


He's not saying the Connie would win, he's just stating the bleeding obvious.



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 Post subject: Re: ISD: Stronger Shields than Constitution PostPosted: 2004-06-24 05:59pm
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2000AD wrote:
tjhairball wrote:
Thus, on a single ship vs ship basis and taken on these five assumptions, it is not unreasonable to conclude that an ISD has stronger shields than the stock model Constitution class. Kirk would thus not win a toe to toe battle with an ISD on stronger shields, alas and alack.


He's not saying the Connie would win, he's just stating the bleeding obvious.


Sorry, the 90 torp count cofuced me.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 06:41pm
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As the wonder of when it would be locked, I would like to hear from the creator why the hell?

Seriously one can do a search of the site and garner this knowledge.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 06:58pm
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Why?

Well, I have do have my reasons, as "obvious" as the general comparison seems and as easy as it is to get the numbers from this site, TOS #38, and put them together. I'm relatively new to these forums and I want to check some things over.

You may, if you like, consider this a test to verify the nature of those posting on these boards. Paranoia is a beautiful thing.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:01pm
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So in other words you're just making a post to test peoples reaction of how we'd treat someone stating the obvious? That seems kind of pointless. . .



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:03pm
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Maybe it has some connotation to do with him being at Scoot's website and saying

Quote:
Once they've actually looked at the site, rather than taking hearsay for truth ... which seems present in large quantities, they claim you say some very strange things that I didn't see reading through... then they're lost to Wong, I suspect, except for the hardcore root, which will probably stand against ST forever.


This

But who am I to say that this may be some greater revelation in the grand scheme of things.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:09pm
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Actually, this has relatively little to do with that, although I may end up analyzing my test results over there, depends what comes up when.

The full quote is one I will stand by, although it really should stand in full context. The things said about that website in these forums and the things on that website are two sets which differ considerably in my recent experience with both.

Quote:
Quote:
Anyone think Wong will tell his board members to just completly ignore this forum? The thought had crossed my mind and he did tell them before to just ignore the main site.
Um. I did see a lot of "NOO DON'T GO TO THAT SITE!" on the SD.net forum when I looked over there, so that seems pretty likely. Once they've actually looked at the site, rather than taking hearsay for truth ... which seems present in large quantities, they claim you say some very strange things that I didn't see reading through... then they're lost to Wong, I suspect, except for the hardcore root, which will probably stand against ST forever.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:11pm
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Though you might want to answer my first post...because honestly this thing is near spam in that you're already stating either the bloody obvious or haven't done a search of the board.

So please...the point...the lock button awaits your reply.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:19pm
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tjhairball wrote:
Actually, this has relatively little to do with that, although I may end up analyzing my test results over there, depends what comes up when.

The full quote is one I will stand by, although it really should stand in full context. The things said about that website in these forums and the things on that website are two sets which differ considerably in my recent experience with both.

Quote:
Quote:
Anyone think Wong will tell his board members to just completly ignore this forum? The thought had crossed my mind and he did tell them before to just ignore the main site.
Um. I did see a lot of "NOO DON'T GO TO THAT SITE!" on the SD.net forum when I looked over there, so that seems pretty likely. Once they've actually looked at the site, rather than taking hearsay for truth ... which seems present in large quantities, they claim you say some very strange things that I didn't see reading through... then they're lost to Wong, I suspect, except for the hardcore root, which will probably stand against ST forever.


Actually, here's for you. In case you missed it.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:38pm
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Ghost Rider wrote:
Though you might want to answer my first post...because honestly this thing is near spam in that you're already stating either the bloody obvious or haven't done a search of the board.

So please...the point...the lock button awaits your reply.


Search of board for "ISD" and "Constitution" (along with searching for Imperial Star Destroyer and Constition) gets surprisingly few hits, including one hit in this forum section (Thrawn vs Khan.)

From looking around a bit on the boards, I thought the above post might prove a bit controversial, debatable, or at the least draw commentary on the nature of the assumptions, as well as telling me a few things about the nature of the posters on this board.

However, by all means, feel free to lock if you think it's really spam.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:45pm
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Sorry folks, typo up there. "constitution" not "constition." :lol:

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-06-24 07:46pm
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And because you used about a page worth of pointless rhetoric(I don't exactly see some form of actually calculating what the worth of PT is...just you going half yield and such not)

And yes, the reason for a few hits is because they are mired...but this has been done before and what controversy?

That the Constitution is weaker then the ISD...gee thanks, I'll keep that in mind when one comes to the realization that 200GTs bounces off an ISD, and would cremate Scotty's woman is less then a en eyeblink.

Locked because you're stating the bloody obvious.



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