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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 09:34pm
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A Fed Shuttle has multiple phaser strips, shielding capable of resisting capital ship bombardement (Photon torpedoes have a proven firepower of over 100 megatons), and Micro-Torpedoes.

A TIE's got no shielding and two lasers that can't dust off a rock. The Falcons weapon range is just under 200 meters and TIE's don't even have that.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 09:37pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
A Fed Shuttle has multiple phaser strips, shielding capable of resisting capital ship bombardement (Photon torpedoes have a proven firepower of over 100 megatons), and Micro-Torpedoes.


Please present this proof, if it is proven.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 10:16pm
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Not this again (!)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 10:18pm
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Split from here, because someone doesn't having the reading capacity to read the annoucements.

Alright, you got your topic.

Now prove your assertion of 100 MT torpedos.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 10:23pm
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As well as your proof that the Falcon's weapons range is less than 200 meters.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 10:24pm
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What type of shuttle are you talking about (no VOY "Endgame" shit), and what bombardment from a capital ship has one ever survived?

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 10:48pm
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A Type 6 was hit by at least one photon torpedo in TNG and survived (:roll:)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:15pm
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Oh, by the way:

This shot establishes a bare minimum range for TIE weapons at 230 meters, based on the 9.5m-long TIE interceptor and the distance from the TIE to the leading end of the shot.

We see this shot propogate into the next frame so that the tail is barely visible on the left side of the frame, suggesting a minimum of more like 300m.

Of course, we've never, EVER seen a shot lose cohesion or disappear into thin air; the max range could well be thousands of kilometers or more.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:25pm
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I call "troll" on this idiot if he doesn't try to produce some evidence for his claims.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:29pm
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I would agree with that. Where's Poe's analysis of the Falcon's weapons range, anyway?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:31pm
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Ghost Rider wrote:
Split from here, because someone doesn't having the reading capacity to read the annoucements.

Alright, you got your topic.

Now prove your assertion of 100 MT torpedos.


100 MT is a conservative estimate and all the proof needed is
on http://www.st-v-sw.net. I know alot of people disagree with him
but I can't find any problem with them.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:34pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Split from here, because someone doesn't having the reading capacity to read the annoucements.

Alright, you got your topic.

Now prove your assertion of 100 MT torpedos.


100 MT is a conservative estimate and all the proof needed is
on http://www.st-v-sw.net. I know alot of people disagree with him
but I can't find any problem with them.


First: You are about to get flamed by a large number of people. I am going to assume you're not simply here to say 'No, I refuse to change my mind', and I will direct you to a step-by-step breakdown of why that site is a bad source.

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Read this. Come back afterwards. Be aware that the arguments Robert Scott Anderson purports were defeated years ago.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:35pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
100 MT is a conservative estimate and all the proof needed is
on http://www.st-v-sw.net. I know alot of people disagree with him
but I can't find any problem with them.


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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:49pm
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I invite you to see RSA'a refutation of that page but maybe we should get back to the main topic of this thread.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:49pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
100 MT is a conservative estimate and all the proof needed is
on http://www.st-v-sw.net. I know alot of people disagree with him
but I can't find any problem with them.


Say, are you related to Stewie-boy by any chance? Your spelling is better I grant you, but your claims are about as creditable as the aforementioned whack-a-loon's.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:51pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
I invite you to see RSA'a refutation of that page but maybe we should get back to the main topic of this thread.


His refutation? What, you mean squawking that vaporization of asteroids should produce 'fragments'?

We are hardly 'getting away from the main topic'. If you are going to insist the firepower from that site be used, you had better be prepared to defend it. I will simply point to the Phoenix calculations as stern refutation of the absurd idea that Photon Torpedos are MT, let alone hundred MT.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:54pm
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Damn Icehawk, that's mean(and nasty if you recognise the source).

Hmm, instant disproof of shuttle 100 Megaton survival bullshit. In Voyager, their shuttles quite often dueled with the small Kazon craft, basically holding their own(there was at least one mutual mission-kill that I remember.

During one of Voyager's episodes, a small Kazon craft came down to a planet's surface, and strafed a building repeatedly, aiming for a single floor where various Kazon were waiting for a supposed peace conference. The blasts penetrated the walls, but left a number of the unarmored Kazon alive, even after beams had gone into the same room they were in.

Personally, I feel that this pretty much shows Fed shuttle firepower and durability to not even be in the kiloton range, and quite possibly not even equivalent to a freaking ton of TNT.

ALLA KAZAM! ~GR



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-10 11:56pm
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Split from here, because someone doesn't having the reading capacity to read the annoucements.

Alright, you got your topic.

Now prove your assertion of 100 MT torpedos.


100 MT is a conservative estimate and all the proof needed is
on http://www.st-v-sw.net. I know alot of people disagree with him
but I can't find any problem with them.


You mean the 30 foot wide torpedoes? Since when did photorps become so abnormally large, exactly? And even so, when have we seen such massive torpedoes used against shuttles (and how can you be sure it was of that type, for that matter (and that's discounting the mechanics of a warhead explosion, etc..)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 12:16am
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consequences wrote:
Damn Icehawk, that's mean(and nasty if you recognise the source).


Of course it is, thats why I made it. :P Battle Royale is chalk full of great pics to use for this kind of thing. I mean seriously, what can you do but laugh out loud at people who actually think using Scooters website as evidence to back up their arguments is worth anything?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 12:28am
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consequences wrote:
Damn Icehawk, that's mean(and nasty if you recognise the source).

Hmm, instant disproof of shuttle 100 Megaton survival bullshit. In Voyager, their shuttles quite often dueled with the small Kazon craft, basically holding their own(there was at least one mutual mission-kill that I remember.

During one of Voyager's episodes, a small Kazon craft came down to a planet's surface, and strafed a building repeatedly, aiming for a single floor where various Kazon were waiting for a supposed peace conference. The blasts penetrated the walls, but left a number of the unarmored Kazon alive, even after beams had gone into the same room they were in.

Personally, I feel that this pretty much shows Fed shuttle firepower and durability to not even be in the kiloton range, and quite possibly not even equivalent to a freaking ton of TNT.

ALLA KAZAM! ~GR


I disagree with your logic here. Not defending the the author of this thread but using a Kazon shuttle shooting in through a window as an example of Fed shuttle firepower and durability is extremely silly.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 12:37am
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I still haven't seen a shred of evidence. Just an appeal to the authority of a deranged help-desk operator.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 12:38am
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Kamakazie Sith wrote:
consequences wrote:
Damn Icehawk, that's mean(and nasty if you recognise the source).

Hmm, instant disproof of shuttle 100 Megaton survival bullshit. In Voyager, their shuttles quite often dueled with the small Kazon craft, basically holding their own(there was at least one mutual mission-kill that I remember.

During one of Voyager's episodes, a small Kazon craft came down to a planet's surface, and strafed a building repeatedly, aiming for a single floor where various Kazon were waiting for a supposed peace conference. The blasts penetrated the walls, but left a number of the unarmored Kazon alive, even after beams had gone into the same room they were in.

Personally, I feel that this pretty much shows Fed shuttle firepower and durability to not even be in the kiloton range, and quite possibly not even equivalent to a freaking ton of TNT.

ALLA KAZAM! ~GR


I disagree with your logic here. Not defending the the author of this thread but using a Kazon shuttle shooting in through a window as an example of Fed shuttle firepower and durability is extremely silly.

The Kazon shuttles have been shown on-screen to be comparable with Voyager's shuttles. The Shuttle in question(and I'm being generous here, the ship in question may have been a heck of a lot bigger than a shuttle) was piloted by people with every reason to wish to kill their targets,as it would decapitate the commands of a number of Kazon factions, and thus had no reason to hold back on the firepower.
It may not be useful as more than an order of magnitude estimate, but any possibility of megaton(or even kiloton) range shuttle firepower is pretty much invalidated by the incident.
Although using Voyager as evidence in general is extremely silly, and I apologise for it. :)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 01:21am
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consequences wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
consequences wrote:
Damn Icehawk, that's mean(and nasty if you recognise the source).

Hmm, instant disproof of shuttle 100 Megaton survival bullshit. In Voyager, their shuttles quite often dueled with the small Kazon craft, basically holding their own(there was at least one mutual mission-kill that I remember.

During one of Voyager's episodes, a small Kazon craft came down to a planet's surface, and strafed a building repeatedly, aiming for a single floor where various Kazon were waiting for a supposed peace conference. The blasts penetrated the walls, but left a number of the unarmored Kazon alive, even after beams had gone into the same room they were in.

Personally, I feel that this pretty much shows Fed shuttle firepower and durability to not even be in the kiloton range, and quite possibly not even equivalent to a freaking ton of TNT.

ALLA KAZAM! ~GR


I disagree with your logic here. Not defending the the author of this thread but using a Kazon shuttle shooting in through a window as an example of Fed shuttle firepower and durability is extremely silly.

The Kazon shuttles have been shown on-screen to be comparable with Voyager's shuttles. The Shuttle in question(and I'm being generous here, the ship in question may have been a heck of a lot bigger than a shuttle) was piloted by people with every reason to wish to kill their targets,as it would decapitate the commands of a number of Kazon factions, and thus had no reason to hold back on the firepower.
It may not be useful as more than an order of magnitude estimate, but any possibility of megaton(or even kiloton) range shuttle firepower is pretty much invalidated by the incident.
Although using Voyager as evidence in general is extremely silly, and I apologise for it. :)


The Trabe do not have a solid or stable industrial base. They would try to save energy if they could. And this isn't space battle. This was a surgical strike or assasination in a city. Collateral damage and PR are factors. They were on a planet that was probably friendly to the Trabe if it was willing to let the Trabe host the conference. If I'm French intelligence sending someone to assassinate a guy at a conference I've arranged in the US, I'm not going to have him nuke Chicago and piss the Americans off to the point that they'd retaliate against me. Especially if I'm in economic trouble and recently lost a huge part of my industrial base. Even if my guy's got a dozen briefcase nukes in his car, I'll tell him to "hold back" and use a rifle or hand grenade.

One funny thing - this same shuttle that barely damaged the building took two torpedoes from Voyager with no damage to the city or the shuttle. Guess they were only carrying...what? A milligram of antimatter? :lol:

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 01:21am
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Avatar of Narendra III wrote:
A Fed Shuttle has multiple phaser strips


Depends on the model of shuttle.

Quote:
shielding capable of resisting capital ship bombardement


Capable of surviving a single torpedo of unknown yield.

Quote:
(Photon torpedoes have a proven firepower of over 100 megatons)


I would love to agree with you IF you could provide some evidence.

Quote:
and Micro-Torpedoes.


Incorrect. Only Runabouts and Tac-Fighters have been equiped with micro-torpedoes.

Quote:
A TIE's got no shielding


Not entirely accurate. Later model TIEs of every make had shields.

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and two lasers that can't dust off a rock.


I would like some sources for that.

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The Falcons weapon range is just under 200 meters and TIE's don't even have that.


Proof would be nice.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2004-05-11 01:23am
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Another more direct picture of shuttle firepower - the episode where Voyager went back in time to Los Angeles in the late 90s. A Voyager shuttle chased down a semi truck it thought was carrying the timeship Aeon. One shot from the shuttle completely destroyed the truck (the tractor and trailer both, IIRC).

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