DARTH WONG

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Andrew Joshua Talon
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DARTH WONG

Postby Andrew Joshua Talon » 2003-08-31 12:37pm

Forgive my unoriginality in the title. I rather like symmetry.

As for my "daddy" not letting me on the Net, he changed his mind. Just like that. He was always a bit odd...

However, this part is irrelevent to the argument, so therefore, let the match begin!

Johnny Gomez: In this corner, age weighing in at the average poundage for a bull-spewing man with a bachelor's degree in engineering, the Sith that is the shit, the meglomaniacal Canadian, a devoted father and husband, leader of the Imperial subjugation of all that is good in the Universe, the one, the only, Darth! Mike! Wong![*b]

Nick Diamond: [b]And innnnn this corner, age seventeen, a co-founder of the Tribute to Music fanfiction Clan, a friend to many, an idiot to others, and having no clue what he is (aside from straight, thank you very much) or will be (college-mere months away! ARGH!), captain of the Starship Premonition in the limitedless expanse of Authorspace, Annnnnndrew Jossssshua Talonnnnnn![*b]

Mills Lane: Now, I want a good, clean fight! No hitting below the belt, no cursing except to enhance a point, and no straying to the non-canon. We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

Now, let's get it on! [b](ding!)[*b]


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Postby YT300000 » 2003-08-31 01:37pm

We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU!


Well, according to Lucasfilm (or was it Lucasbooks?) the EU is canon so long as it doesn't contradict the movies, novelizations and everything else higher than it in the canon heirarchy.
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Utsanomiko » 2003-08-31 01:49pm

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*Goes and bangs head on already well-banged wall*

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:(My fanfiction author side is rather dominant, eh heh [sweatdrop])[/b]


And this, people, is the thesis statement to essay of Talon's sheer incompetence in making a fucking argument.

AJT, if you're still thinking that all debating is is a bunch of fanfair, stylistic creativity, and heroics, shut your goddamn pie-hole and/or just make a real point already.
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Darth Garden Gnome » 2003-08-31 01:54pm

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote: We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor.
You dingbat, the EU is canon! See here.

And no Trek novels are canon ('cept for the TMP novelization, penned by Gene Roddenberry himself), so this Jeri Taylor bullcrap is not usable in a strictly canon debate.
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Anarchist Bunny » 2003-08-31 01:56pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Andrew Joshua Talon wrote: We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor.
You dingbat, the EU is canon! See here.

And no Trek novels are canon ('cept for the TMP novelization, penned by Gene Roddenberry himself), so this Jeri Taylor bullcrap is not usable in a strictly canon debate.


Accually it is, along with a few events in the Animated Series, and since this is suppose to be DWvsATJ make comments in the commentary thread.
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Postby Alyeska » 2003-08-31 03:37pm

Let AJT set the terms of the debate. I believe Mike is the challenger. In the unlikely event that things go against Mike, he can point out the debate conditions and their being either unrealistic or something along those lines.
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Darth Wong » 2003-08-31 05:05pm

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:no straying to the non-canon. We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU!

The ICS has been described as canon, and the EU has been described as "quasi-canon" by Lucasfilm. You cannot state that all of it is "non-canon" so easily.
Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

You're pathetic. You want to include offscreen bullshit from Trek and not even material explicitly described as "canon" from Star Wars.
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Postby YT300000 » 2003-08-31 05:10pm

His next theory will be that, because in TOS they boasted several times that the E-nil can destroy planets, hand phasers can take out cities.
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Postby Connor MacLeod » 2003-08-31 11:55pm

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 30822.html

As designers we look at all kinds of stuff for inspiration and we have a crack research staff to help us with that. The Star Wars books serve as a starting point and guide for certain types of questions that arise in respect to certain cultures or technologies that have already been established in the movies. The Star Wars Chronicles book is our bible, the Incredible Cross-Section books provide a great starting point when we're adding to existing locations. We usually don't refer to the Expanded Universe materials specifically unless our research team finds something that directly corresponds to our assignment.


The ICS books are used as references in the canon movies.

The first two Incredible Cross-Sections books were conceived to explore bold new territory in the Star Wars universe, taking a rare look inside more vehicles and vessels than we had ever seen before, and doing it in unprecedented detail. These books would represent the most thorough research ever done on these vehicles and would receive Lucasfilm's formal imprimature as canon. These volumes would henceforth be sent out to licensees as reference guides and would become useful manuals at Industrial Light & Magic, where some of the artwork influenced details in Episodes I and II.


The infamous "Star Wars Insider #68" reference.

Ergo, they are canon, and usable like the canon novelizations, scripts, and radio dramas.

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Postby Lord Poe » 2003-09-01 12:25am

And on the Episode 3 webcam, there are several shots of the Visual Dictionaries being used for reference.
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Postby Stravo » 2003-09-01 12:27am

Not to mention there' s that recent quote from GL that he's waiting for the EU to explain how Anakin received the head scar. Is that any more obvious of the EU's standing in canon? I'm surprised no one has been beating the canon naysayers over the head with that one.
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Postby Connor MacLeod » 2003-09-01 12:29am

Lord Poe wrote:And on the Episode 3 webcam, there are several shots of the Visual Dictionaries being used for reference.


Oh yeah, forgot that.

Lets not forget that EU refrences HAVE shown up in canon material (Holocrons, the double-bladed lightsaber, Coruscant, "thousands" of Jedi in the galaxy is and was frequently mentioned in the novels before the prequels and AOTC, etc.)

Its obvious that AJT is attempting to artificially cripple the SW side by limiting their source material.

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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Stuart Mackey » 2003-09-01 04:03am

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:snipWe're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

Now, let's get it on! [b](ding!)[*b]




You do not get to decide what canon is, ass.
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Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2003-09-01 04:38am

pretty please can I move this to a more appropreate forum?
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby LMSx » 2003-09-01 05:24am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:snipWe're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

Now, let's get it on! [b](ding!)[*b]




You do not get to decide what canon is, ass.


He's setting the debate conditions, which he DOES get to decide. It's his right to use whatever sources he wants, whether or not the opinion backing up the debate conditions is flamingly stupid.

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Postby LMSx » 2003-09-01 05:34am

After reading a few dozen more AJT-based threads (what the fuck? :shock: ) I should tweak the previous post by saying that if he chooses to debate canon status then my post is null and void and whatnot. If we're debating blasters vs. phasers however, then I still fail to see why he shouldn't be able to choose what sources can be used.

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Postby YT300000 » 2003-09-01 12:19pm

LMSx wrote:After reading a few dozen more AJT-based threads (what the fuck? :shock: ) I should tweak the previous post by saying that if he chooses to debate canon status then my post is null and void and whatnot. If we're debating blasters vs. phasers however, then I still fail to see why he shouldn't be able to choose what sources can be used.


Well, what if he says that, for example, ANH isn't canon. Then we have no case of power pack-draining level shots, so those don't exist.

By letting him decide what is canon, he can dismiss certain things (like BDZ) out of hand.
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Postby Darth Wong » 2003-09-01 03:20pm

It is ridiculous to have no limits on what the supposedly challenged party can set as rules. Rules of debate normally involve assumptions about matters held to be arbitrary, not cheap-ass methods of resolving issues of contention.

If the challenged party can set any rules he likes, why doesn't he just set rule #1 to be "ST is more powerful than SW"? :roll:

Don't let Gothmog's idiocy sway you; the challenged party does not have unlimited latitude to set whatever absurd rules he wants. Disallowing evidence for the opponent's side is well beyond that latitude.
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Re: DARTH WONG

Postby Stuart Mackey » 2003-09-02 02:54am

LMSx wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:snipWe're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

Now, let's get it on! [b](ding!)[*b]




You do not get to decide what canon is, ass.


He's setting the debate conditions, which he DOES get to decide. It's his right to use whatever sources he wants, whether or not the opinion backing up the debate conditions is flamingly stupid.


You are correct in one sense. Mind you, I snipped ina overly zelous manner.. but that can be corrected.

AJT wrote:Mills Lane: Now, I want a good, clean fight! No hitting below the belt, no cursing except to enhance a point, and no straying to the non-canon. We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.


So I will say it again, he does not get to decide what canon is.
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Postby Lord Poe » 2003-09-02 09:39am

PainRack wrote:And unlike you, many others actually remember and honour Connor Macleod for his debating contributions, like his feat in making the idiotator Rvalencia swear.


LOL! Really? Good job, Connor!
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Postby Lord Pounder » 2003-09-02 01:29pm

Funny how so many me-too-trolls turn distainful when they get smacked down. The pratically set fire to themselves to be noticed, get smacked down, then act like they don't want to know us.

I bet he wanks off dreaming of a Custom Title he'll never have.
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Postby Utsanomiko » 2003-09-02 02:40pm

So, um... Are we waiting for Andie Talon to do something here, or is he out for the count after the "Blasters vs Phasers" nonsense?

Trolling morons aren't very funny when they're such pussyfoots. :|
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Postby Stravo » 2003-09-02 02:44pm

Trolls don't seem to be cut from the same cloth as their master Darkstar. Now there was a troll who knew how to take a beating and come right back for more. Damnit why can't this new generation of slacker trolls show some of the same gumption. I fear that like the blood of Numenor, the blood of the megatrolls is spent.
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Postby SirNitram » 2003-09-02 02:58pm

Stravo wrote:Trolls don't seem to be cut from the same cloth as their master Darkstar. Now there was a troll who knew how to take a beating and come right back for more. Damnit why can't this new generation of slacker trolls show some of the same gumption. I fear that like the blood of Numenor, the blood of the megatrolls is spent.


They are the megatrolls for a reason. And that reason is their persistance.
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Postby Utsanomiko » 2003-09-02 03:11pm

Stravo wrote:Trolls don't seem to be cut from the same cloth as their master Darkstar. Now there was a troll who knew how to take a beating and come right back for more. Damnit why can't this new generation of slacker trolls show some of the same gumption. I fear that like the blood of Numenor, the blood of the megatrolls is spent.


Nah, I think it's because little Andie is a subjectivist pissant foremost and (tries to be) a fanfic writer additionally. He's not really doing this, I suspect, because he's got a strong agenda with the subject, but rather because he's such in insufferable loon that he has to storm in here and tell us all about 'feelings' and 'heroics' and other non-tech stuff, missing the whole damn point and slinking off when we tell him we don't give a shit about his inept fanficisms.

I wish I could remember the name of the guy who come here asking why we were arguing about SW vs ST if the answer was so clear, and then acted cluless that DS or TJ would deny the evidence. "But why would they lie about it?", asked little Cindy Lou-Who, and then proceeded to reveal he was a subjectivist fucknard that didn't understand the idea that tech analysis and objective comparisons can be used to come up with a likely victor of an encounter "But maybe we don't know how it would really play out? I certainly don't know wh would win..." And on and on.

It was almost funny. Now that was a Stupid Subjectivist Weeble that would wobble but not fall down. But Talon's not competent enough to be simply stupid.
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