Forgive my unoriginality in the title. I rather like symmetry.

As for my "daddy" not letting me on the Net, he changed his mind. Just like that. He was always a bit odd...

However, this part is irrelevent to the argument, so therefore, let the match begin!

Johnny Gomez: In this corner, age weighing in at the average poundage for a bull-spewing man with a bachelor's degree in engineering, the Sith that is the shit, the meglomaniacal Canadian, a devoted father and husband, leader of the Imperial subjugation of all that is good in the Universe, the one, the only, Darth! Mike! Wong![*b]

Nick Diamond: [b]And innnnn this corner, age seventeen, a co-founder of the Tribute to Music fanfiction Clan, a friend to many, an idiot to others, and having no clue what he is (aside from straight, thank you very much) or will be (college-mere months away! ARGH!), captain of the Starship Premonition in the limitedless expanse of Authorspace, Annnnnndrew Jossssshua Talonnnnnn![*b]

Mills Lane: Now, I want a good, clean fight! No hitting below the belt, no cursing except to enhance a point, and no straying to the non-canon. We're dealing with the movies and Lucas-sanctioned material ONLY, so no EU! Also, nothing from the Trek novels, aside from (and COMPLETELY) limited to those by Jeri Taylor. Mercy is not in our budget.

Now, let's get it on! [b](ding!)[*b]


(My fanfiction author side is rather dominant, eh heh [sweatdrop])

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"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics..." Admiral Rickover


Wolverine: Woah! It's me...
Cyclops: Oh yeah? Prove it!
Wolverine: ... You're a dick.
Cyclops: ... Okay then...

Well, according to Lucasfilm (or was it Lucasbooks?) the EU is canon so long as it doesn't contradict the movies, novelizations and everything else higher than it in the canon heirarchy.

*Goes and bangs head on already well-banged wall*



And this, people, is the thesis statement to essay of Talon's sheer incompetence in making a fucking argument.

AJT, if you're still thinking that all debating is is a bunch of fanfair, stylistic creativity, and heroics, shut your goddamn pie-hole and/or just make a real point already.

You dingbat, the EU is canon! See here.

And no Trek novels are canon ('cept for the TMP novelization, penned by Gene Roddenberry himself), so this Jeri Taylor bullcrap is not usable in a strictly canon debate.

Accually it is, along with a few events in the Animated Series, and since this is suppose to be DWvsATJ make comments in the commentary thread.

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//This Line Blank as of 7/15/07\\
Ornithology Subdirector: SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
Wiilite

Let AJT set the terms of the debate. I believe Mike is the challenger. In the unlikely event that things go against Mike, he can point out the debate conditions and their being either unrealistic or something along those lines.

The ICS has been described as canon, and the EU has been described as "quasi-canon" by Lucasfilm. You cannot state that all of it is "non-canon" so easily.

You're pathetic. You want to include offscreen bullshit from Trek and not even material explicitly described as "canon" from Star Wars.

His next theory will be that, because in TOS they boasted several times that the E-nil can destroy planets, hand phasers can take out cities.

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 30822.html



The ICS books are used as references in the canon movies.



The infamous "Star Wars Insider #68" reference.

Ergo, they are canon, and usable like the canon novelizations, scripts, and radio dramas.

And on the Episode 3 webcam, there are several shots of the Visual Dictionaries being used for reference.

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator

Not to mention there' s that recent quote from GL that he's waiting for the EU to explain how Anakin received the head scar. Is that any more obvious of the EU's standing in canon? I'm surprised no one has been beating the canon naysayers over the head with that one.

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Wherever you go, there you are.

Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2

Oh yeah, forgot that.

Lets not forget that EU refrences HAVE shown up in canon material (Holocrons, the double-bladed lightsaber, Coruscant, "thousands" of Jedi in the galaxy is and was frequently mentioned in the novels before the prequels and AOTC, etc.)

Its obvious that AJT is attempting to artificially cripple the SW side by limiting their source material.

You do not get to decide what canon is, ass.

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Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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pretty please can I move this to a more appropreate forum?

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The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin

He's setting the debate conditions, which he DOES get to decide. It's his right to use whatever sources he wants, whether or not the opinion backing up the debate conditions is flamingly stupid.

After reading a few dozen more AJT-based threads (what the fuck? ) I should tweak the previous post by saying that if he chooses to debate canon status then my post is null and void and whatnot. If we're debating blasters vs. phasers however, then I still fail to see why he shouldn't be able to choose what sources can be used.

Well, what if he says that, for example, ANH isn't canon. Then we have no case of power pack-draining level shots, so those don't exist.

By letting him decide what is canon, he can dismiss certain things (like BDZ) out of hand.

It is ridiculous to have no limits on what the supposedly challenged party can set as rules. Rules of debate normally involve assumptions about matters held to be arbitrary, not cheap-ass methods of resolving issues of contention.

If the challenged party can set any rules he likes, why doesn't he just set rule #1 to be "ST is more powerful than SW"?

Don't let Gothmog's idiocy sway you; the challenged party does not have unlimited latitude to set whatever absurd rules he wants. Disallowing evidence for the opponent's side is well beyond that latitude.

You are correct in one sense. Mind you, I snipped ina overly zelous manner.. but that can be corrected.



So I will say it again, he does not get to decide what canon is.

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Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------

LOL! Really? Good job, Connor!

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator

Funny how so many me-too-trolls turn distainful when they get smacked down. The pratically set fire to themselves to be noticed, get smacked down, then act like they don't want to know us.

I bet he wanks off dreaming of a Custom Title he'll never have.

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In IMF controlled Ireland the banks rob the people.


PRFYNAFBTFC
Kirov Class MFS Dubious Use Of The Worlds Resources - If we can't fuck it, kill it

So, um... Are we waiting for Andie Talon to do something here, or is he out for the count after the "Blasters vs Phasers" nonsense?

Trolling morons aren't very funny when they're such pussyfoots.

Trolls don't seem to be cut from the same cloth as their master Darkstar. Now there was a troll who knew how to take a beating and come right back for more. Damnit why can't this new generation of slacker trolls show some of the same gumption. I fear that like the blood of Numenor, the blood of the megatrolls is spent.

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Wherever you go, there you are.

Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2

They are the megatrolls for a reason. And that reason is their persistance.

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Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

Nah, I think it's because little Andie is a subjectivist pissant foremost and (tries to be) a fanfic writer additionally. He's not really doing this, I suspect, because he's got a strong agenda with the subject, but rather because he's such in insufferable loon that he has to storm in here and tell us all about 'feelings' and 'heroics' and other non-tech stuff, missing the whole damn point and slinking off when we tell him we don't give a shit about his inept fanficisms.

I wish I could remember the name of the guy who come here asking why we were arguing about SW vs ST if the answer was so clear, and then acted cluless that DS or TJ would deny the evidence. "But why would they lie about it?", asked little Cindy Lou-Who, and then proceeded to reveal he was a subjectivist fucknard that didn't understand the idea that tech analysis and objective comparisons can be used to come up with a likely victor of an encounter "But maybe we don't know how it would really play out? I certainly don't know wh would win..." And on and on.

It was almost funny. Now that was a Stupid Subjectivist Weeble that would wobble but not fall down. But Talon's not competent enough to be simply stupid.