RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

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ray245
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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by ray245 » 2020-05-22 01:15pm

Straha wrote:
2020-05-22 12:58pm
Please tell me how this review praises TFA for giving them 'all the nostalgia they wanted'.
I do not want to give the channel any additional clicks, so I am not watching it.
So, this gets back to why in the fuck you think "Disney is influenced by fanboys" is a reason not to engage with nuanced media criticism?
Because I do not think they are "nuanced media criticism"?

As they say, concessions accepted.
That is not changing my mind about their channel.
So, over the course of this conversation you've made clear that you've actually not engaged or understood their criticism which has plenty of nuance that you missed. You have blanketly painted into a corner as being critical of a thing you love for, perhaps, ulterior motives and then dismissed them outright.
I did not see any evidence of nuance when I first saw the video years ago. I am not going to rewatch something I disliked watching 9 years ago just to argue against you. My bias is based on my reaction to the video a decade ago, and until I see a well argued defence of their criticism, this is going to be my view towards their channel.
So if your argument is 'fanboy critique is bad and should not be listened to', I guess the prior question is given the level of fanboyism you are portraying right now, why should anyone take you seriously?
You don't have to take me seriously. I am a mere Star Wars fan on the Internet after all. The question is why should anyone take RLM seriously?

You have, without knowing it, engaged in exactly the critique that they offer against JJ Abrams and Disney's control of the base. This seems to mean that either you're speaking from blanket ignorance or that you too are a fanboy who I should ignore. Which one is it?
Feel free to ignore me?

If a story is executed badly it is, almost by definition, a _bad story_. Discussing the misexecution of the story compared to what it could have been is the role of a critic.
There is a difference between the overarching plot and narrative of a story, and issues in execution ( acting, editing and etc). Lumping them as one is not good criticism.
So you admit you know nothing about what they actually say but that you still dislike them so much you will not engage?

Thicken your skin.
Why should I do something I do not enjoy?
Because it offers a depthful nuanced take on why the story failed to deliver, the reasons behind that failure, why it is so jarringly discordant with the rest of the Star Trek universe, and more.
And what evidence is there that they offered a depthful and nuanced take on the story when their entire shtick is making it look like a neck-beard complaining about something for over an hour?
'm not going to restate the core critiques that they make. I get paid when I tutor people on material. Watch it or don't, but do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about.
Then I have no reason to feel inclined to change my mind based on what you've said.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by Patroklos » 2020-05-22 07:58pm

ray245 wrote:
2020-05-20 12:55pm
Straha wrote:
2020-05-20 12:42pm
How, pray tell, are they to blame for the mess that is the sequel trilogy?
They were part of the chorus that keep pushing for JJ Abrams as this saviour of Star Wars? And their repeated attempt on how the only "true" Star Wars is all about the gritty outskirts on the edge of civilisation and how all politics about the state of the galaxy is boring?
Umm, no.

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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by Straha » 2020-05-23 08:26pm

ray245 wrote:
2020-05-22 01:15pm
Straha wrote:
2020-05-22 12:58pm
Please tell me how this review praises TFA for giving them 'all the nostalgia they wanted'.
I do not want to give the channel any additional clicks, so I am not watching it.
So, straight up, you just haven't watched any of their criticism post the sequels, have you?

So, everytime you try to attack what they're saying you're either speaking from straight up ignorance and/or lying about even claiming to know what they're talking about?

Yiiiikes.
So, this gets back to why in the fuck you think "Disney is influenced by fanboys" is a reason not to engage with nuanced media criticism?
Because I do not think they are "nuanced media criticism"?
And, again, you are wrong.
I did not see any evidence of nuance when I first saw the video years ago. I am not going to rewatch something I disliked watching 9 years ago just to argue against you. My bias is based on my reaction to the video a decade ago, and until I see a well argued defence of their criticism, this is going to be my view towards their channel.
They offer nuanced takes from a background that is deep into film production and cinema criticism, and they are deeply fluent in both fields while presenting their arguments in a way that requires knowledge of neither (though it helps to get what they're saying).
You don't have to take me seriously. I am a mere Star Wars fan on the Internet after all. The question is why should anyone take RLM seriously?
I have stopped taking you seriously. See above for why they are taken seriously.
You have, without knowing it, engaged in exactly the critique that they offer against JJ Abrams and Disney's control of the base. This seems to mean that either you're speaking from blanket ignorance or that you too are a fanboy who I should ignore. Which one is it?
Feel free to ignore me?
Yeah, but at this point I want the answer to the question why you think your blanket ignorance and lies were worth inserting into this thread? Like, why not take your own advice here and ignore the post about RLM instead of spouting off randomly.

If a story is executed badly it is, almost by definition, a _bad story_. Discussing the misexecution of the story compared to what it could have been is the role of a critic.
There is a difference between the overarching plot and narrative of a story, and issues in execution ( acting, editing and etc). Lumping them as one is not good criticism.
Which is a thing they didn't do.

And what evidence is there that they offered a depthful and nuanced take on the story when their entire shtick is making it look like a neck-beard complaining about something for over an hour?
Watch the damn thing. Or watch their other reviews (Half in the Bag). The evidence is the amount of film folk who pay attention to what they say and interact with RLM externally, and the quality of the reviews itself. I'm not going to repeat their criticism verbatim for you when you can take it on yourself to engage with critical media that pushes you out of your comfort zone. And if you're not willing to do that then, idk, ignore it and keep your world closed I guess?
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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by ray245 » 2020-05-24 05:08am

Straha wrote:
2020-05-23 08:26pm
So, straight up, you just haven't watched any of their criticism post the sequels, have you?

So, everytime you try to attack what they're saying you're either speaking from straight up ignorance and/or lying about even claiming to know what they're talking about?

Yiiiikes.
All I can say is I was relying on a nine-year old vague memory. My 9-year old memory is telling me they were nothing but a bunch of fanboys, and everything I've read about them since has not convinced me otherwise.
And, again, you are wrong.
Maybe, but I've not seen any arguments that actually supports the idea that they are nuanced...other than your points which I find to be unconvincing.
They offer nuanced takes from a background that is deep into film production and cinema criticism, and they are deeply fluent in both fields while presenting their arguments in a way that requires knowledge of neither (though it helps to get what they're saying).
That is not what I remembered, and while my memory is certainly faulty, what I have read about them in various comments does not suggest they are.

Certainly not when I am coming across articles like this about them:

https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/mr-plinkett-last-jedi/

https://www.salon.com/2018/08/31/stop-o ... -fixation/

https://filmschoolrejects.com/spare-us- ... a0bda2fa1/



I have stopped taking you seriously. See above for why they are taken seriously.
What I am getting is repeated claims about their nuanced criticism, when I am hearing plenty of counter-arguments that they are merely nitpicking. Even our own forum has a long thread with plenty of people taking issues with their criticism.

https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=146990

Yeah, but at this point I want the answer to the question why you think your blanket ignorance and lies were worth inserting into this thread? Like, why not take your own advice here and ignore the post about RLM instead of spouting off randomly.
I think it's fine to challenge claims and recommendations that people are making? Certainly when the review itself is often hours long and is done in a voice that many people find to be outright grating?
Which is a thing they didn't do.
Did they not? Then why did I read about their criticism as amounting to this:
Then, while complaining that the lightsabers are overused in the prequels, Plinkett digresses into how he thinks that different races of Jedi should have different kinds of weapons customized to accommodate their varying sizes and physiologies. He thinks that Yoda is handicapped by having to use a scaled-down lightsaber. (Regarding Yoda’s saber fight “[Lucas] kinda seems like a retard who just wants to see neat things happen with his computer.” That’s a funny statement coming from the guy who just minutes earlier accused Lucas of artlessly making descisions based on audience appeal.) I grant that’s the sort of thing that geeks like to debate online, but it feels misplaced in the middle of a thesis about what’s wrong with the film.

A film is not bad if its sin is a failure to conform to your presumptions about the world in which it exists.
https://filmschoolrejects.com/spare-us- ... a0bda2fa1/
Watch the damn thing. Or watch their other reviews (Half in the Bag). The evidence is the amount of film folk who pay attention to what they say and interact with RLM externally, and the quality of the reviews itself. I'm not going to repeat their criticism verbatim for you when you can take it on yourself to engage with critical media that pushes you out of your comfort zone. And if you're not willing to do that then, idk, ignore it and keep your world closed I guess?
Why should I watch them, when they have left a terrible impression in my old memory, and I have not seen anything well-argued by anyone that really change my perspective? I watch Star Wars related materials because I enjoy them, and if I find a Star Wars related material to be unenjoyable, why should I spend hours watching it?
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by Ralin » 2020-05-24 09:40am

ray245 wrote:
2020-05-24 05:08am

Why should I watch them, when they have left a terrible impression in my old memory, and I have not seen anything well-argued by anyone that really change my perspective? I watch Star Wars related materials because I enjoy them, and if I find a Star Wars related material to be unenjoyable, why should I spend hours watching it?
If you can't be bothered to watch these reviews or at least a good summary why do you feel the need to make multiple posts condemning their content and claiming that they somehow ruined future Star Wars movies? Moreover, why do you think anyone should listen to your opinion on the subject?

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Re: RLM/Plinkett Review of Star Trek: Picard

Post by ray245 » 2020-05-24 09:53am

Ralin wrote:
2020-05-24 09:40am
If you can't be bothered to watch these reviews or at least a good summary why do you feel the need to make multiple posts condemning their content and claiming that they somehow ruined future Star Wars movies? Moreover, why do you think anyone should listen to your opinion on the subject?
Because I am giving my reasons as to why I am sceptical of anyone recommending their channel? I don't think anyone should listen to my opinion on the subject, I just think people should give good reasons why anyone should be checking out their hours-long review.

Especially when there is a 30 pages long thread on SDN with many of our own users outright mocking RLM and their reviews.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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