Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-09 07:29pm

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-a ... both-naked
Iran and America Are Suddenly Both Naked
By taking decisive action against Soleimani, Trump showed that Iran’s power is an illusion generated by D.C.’s willingness to look the other way
By Lee Smith
January 7, 2020 • 9:30 PM

It’s no coincidence that in the wake of the targeted killing of Quds Force commander Qassem Soleimani, Iran’s most important military proxy has begun taking credit for terror attacks committed nearly four decades ago. For example, Hezbollah-affiliated media and activists are laying public claim to the organization’s responsibility for bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in October 1983, which killed 241 Marines. So why now?

The answer is, to scare Americans now that Donald Trump has thrown the regime in Tehran off balance by changing the 40-year-old rules of the game. The United States always knew that Hezbollah was responsible for the Marine barracks attack and that the Lebanese militia was armed, trained, funded and directed by Iran. President Reagan’s decision not to respond directly to the attack was part of a tacit agreement that America and the Islamic Republic entered into during the 1979 U.S. Embassy takeover in Tehran. It mirrored similar arrangements with the Soviet Union in which neither superpower held the other directly accountable for the actions of proxies in order to reduce the likelihood of a nuclear cataclysm.

Yet, unlike the Soviet Union, the Islamic Republic was hardly a globe-spanning nuclear superpower. It was merely a hostile local power that threatened the American regional security order through terror attacks. Washington’s response was to look away, under the theory that it was beneficial to the larger order to pretend, in public, that rules still existed. In turn, Iran was happy to play make-believe and accumulate prestige and leverage.

The terms of this weird deal held fast for the next four decades, through the end of the Cold War, the collapse of the Soviet Union, the First and Second Gulf Wars, Bush’s occupation of Iraq, Obama’s Iran deal, and other local and global milestones. Washington wouldn’t hold the clerical regime accountable for the violent proxies that it funded, armed, trained, and directed. In exchange, Iran and its partners would refrain from embarrassing the Americans by boasting about the murders they committed. The founder of the Islamic Republic, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, famously said that America couldn’t do a damn thing. It is more accurate to say our elected officials wouldn’t do a damn thing.

Donald Trump put an end to that arrangement by commingling the dust of Soleimani together with that of one of his chief Arab lieutenants, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, head of one of Iran’s Iraqi terror proxies. Now that Trump is holding Iran accountable for the actions its proxies take in its name, the leverage gained by helping America play make-believe is gone. Iran and its allies now feel liberated to bathe publicly in the blood of Americans and warn that more violence is coming their way.

The problem for Iran is that it isn’t actually all that powerful. For all the concern over retaliation, Trump’s trashing of the old rulebook has stripped Iran of the most important instrument in its arsenal—“plausible deniability.”

Iran’s ability to respond to the U.S. was already limited by the fact that its conventional military forces are old and rusting away. Yes, IRGC speedboats can harass, and target, the U.S. Navy in the Persian Gulf. But it can’t move large land forces into Iraq, never mind drop them into Florida or Alaska.

A good measure of Iran’s military weakness is that Qassem Soleimani was commander not of its regular army but rather the Quds Force, the expeditionary unit of Iran’s parallel military structure, the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). The Quds Force is relatively small, with estimates ranging from 3,000 to 15,000 fighters–i.e., a force the size of Hezbollah. For protracted campaigns like the Syria war, the Quds Force relies on what Israeli analyst Shimon Shapira calls the Shiite International—paid militias drawn from Middle East and Central Asian countries with Shiite populations, like Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

The threat that Iran poses to a superpower America is “asymmetric”—kidnappings, embassy attacks, hijackings, bombings, etc., typically conducted by Iranian proxies. The military experts and political scientists who coined the term usually fail to note that the ability to wage “asymmetric” warfare is wholly dependent on an adversary’s willed blindness. If Iran’s targets decide to unsubscribe to the fiction that the Islamic Republic is not directly responsible for the actions of its proxies, Iran is rendered virtually powerless–with terror attacks being met with direct military hits on Iranian bases, airfields, ports, power plants, dams, and other infrastructure.

It is only because Americans and other Western powers have declined to call out Iran and have instead appeased it, that an obscurantist regime whose major exports are energy, pistachios—and terror, of course—appears like a formidable adversary.

In making Iran accountable, Trump has knocked Iran down to its natural size—and likely made Americans safer from Iranian aggression than they have in fact been at any point in the last 40 years, during which Iranian proxies have repeatedly killed large numbers of Americans. Killing Soleimani is a much more important operation than those targeting ISIS leader al-Baghdadi and even bin Laden, since it will likely shape the future actions of a state, not the leadership rotation of terror groups.

Iranian-backed terror isn’t a stubborn, unchanging fact of the international landscape, except to the degree that we made it so. The policy of appeasement that began in 1979, with the embassy takeover, culminated in the 2015 Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) when the Obama administration flooded Soleimani’s war chests with hundreds of billions of dollars and legitimized Iran’s “right” to a large-scale nuclear weapons program. In line with the decadeslong U.S. policy of augmenting the Iranian threat in order to avoid taking action against it, Obama said the only alternative to giving Iran the bomb was war.

Donald Trump was vilified when he exited the Iran deal in May. But in the eyes of the foreign policy establishment, he committed an even graver sin by exposing the 40-year-old lie that U.S. policymakers, right and left, had cultivated to rationalize their collective unwillingness to protect Americans from Iranian terror.

* * *

So why did U.S. officials treat Iran differently than any other country, even at the expense of thousands of American lives? There is the U.S. investment in maintaining the appearance of a rules-based order led by America, of course. On a deeper, less strategic level, there was the guilt and self-pity of America’s ruling elites, and the habits of magical thinking that resulted.

Power makes people vain. When it is handed down to them, it often makes them resentful, too. In 1979, when Iranian students took over the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, the Western intelligentsia saw it as the righteous revenge of the wretched of the earth—and confirmation of their own political exertions spent on college campuses from Berkeley to Paris the previous decade. The Iranian revolution was evidence to our ruling class of how much their fathers had gotten wrong—and thus proof of their own virtue.

It required no national security acumen or regional expertise to see that the “students” were a ruse. Khomeini was clearly in charge—he was, after all, the supreme leader. No one seized the U.S. Embassy, kidnapped 52 Americans in the center of Tehran, and held them for over a year, without his approval.

The hostage crisis showed the regime in Tehran that so long as it didn’t pierce the veil and take direct, unmistakable, on-the-record responsibility for its actions, Washington would stick with the cover story. And even though the hostage crisis crippled Jimmy Carter, it was his successor, Ronald Reagan, who not only failed to retaliate after the hostages were freed, but then also granted the Iranians impunity when under cover of Hezbollah, they bombed the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon in April 1983. Six months later, they bombed the Marine barracks. In December of that year, the Iranians employed Lebanese and Iraqi proxies to bomb the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait. Muhandis, killed last week with Soleimani, is believed to have planned the attack.

To free the Iranian proxies apprehended by Kuwaiti authorities, Hezbollah embarked on an almost decadelong campaign of assassinations and kidnappings, taking dozens of Americans hostage in Beirut, including the president of the American University in Beirut, David Dodge, who was transferred for a time to Tehran’s infamous Evin prison. Hezbollah then assassinated Dodge’s AUB colleague Malcolm Kerr.

U.S. officials even had scholarly support to rationalize their failure to hold Iran accountable. During the 1990s, Middle East experts promoted a thesis holding that the clerical regime in fact had little to do with Hezbollah. According to the “Lebanonization” thesis, Hezbollah was a homegrown resistance movement that came into being as a local response to Israel’s 1982 occupation of Lebanon. In fact, as Tablet colleague Tony Badran has written, Hezbollah was seeded in Lebanon in the mid-’70s by “Iranian revolutionary factions opposed to the shah.” U.S. policymakers preferred the fiction that Hezbollah was a homegrown product because it supported both their emotional needs and their policy goals: The West had earned the righteous anger of the natives, and there was nothing to be done except atone by way of offering human sacrifices.

In 1996, Iran’s proxy in Saudi Arabia, Hezbollah al-Hijaz, bombed the Khobar Towers, killing 19 U.S. Air Force personnel. The Clinton administration’s hopes for rapprochement with Tehran under the leadership of so-called reformist President Mohammad Khatami required the U.S. to pretend Iran was not responsible.

Between 2003 and 2011, according to a State Department assessment, Iran and its Shiite allies were responsible for killing more than 600 U.S. servicemen in Iraq. The body count doesn’t include the U.S. servicemen killed by the Sunni fighters ushered from Damascus international airport to the Iraqi border by Bashar Assad’s regime in Syria, Iran’s chief Arab ally. Yet George W. Bush reportedly passed up opportunities to kill Soleimani, deciding against opening a third front against Iranian terrorists that might endanger his doomed “Freedom Agenda.”

There was even less of a chance Obama would kill Soleimani, though his administration reportedly had him in the crosshairs, too. Soleimani was the key to the JCPOA, Obama’s crowning foreign policy achievement. He admired Soleimani, a hard man who got things done. Rather than stop the Quds Force commander, Obama told Arab allies that “they need to take a page out of the playbook of the Quds Force.”

The former president’s conviction was simply the result of what American officials had been saying since 1979. Therefore, Obama counted on Soleimani’s ability to control the ground in Syria and help America stabilize the region. Yet only weeks after Obama diplomats and Iran agreed to the JCPOA in July 2015, Soleimani was in Moscow petitioning Vladimir Putin for assistance in Syria. In spite of the billions of dollars in sanctions relief that Obama had granted Iran, and the $1.7 billion in cash the U.S. shipped directly to the IRGC, the Quds Force and the Shiite international were on the verge of losing the war to rebels in pick-up trucks.

Six U.S. administrations were complicit in turning Iran into a regional power. In that context, the Obama administration’s decision to flood Iranian war chests with cash and recognize its right to build a nuclear bomb was the logical culmination of the rot eating away at the Beltway for four decades. It was perhaps to be expected that an outsider who often doesn’t know when to keep quiet, and can’t stay off Twitter, would be the one to sing out like the boy in the fairy tale. It’s true, the emperor has no clothes. The rules have changed but that doesn’t mean the Iranians won’t be looking for revenge.
BTW that line:

Muhandis, killed last week with Soleimani, is believed to have planned the attack.

led me to his Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Mahdi_al-Muhandis

He was sentenced to death in absentia in 2007 by a court in Kuwait for his involvement in the 1983 Kuwait bombings.
Muhandis was on the United States list of designated terrorists.
Abu Mahdi was killed on 3 January 2020 around 1:00 a.m. local time (22:00 UTC 2 January), by missiles shot from American drones which targeted Qasem Soleimani and his convoy near Baghdad International Airport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Kuwait_bombings

I guess we did Kuwait a +1UP with that drone strike.
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-09 07:34pm

Some more stuff is coming out, checking the Wiki for the strike (we live in a world, BTW)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Bagh ... _airstrike
According to an unnamed senior U.S. official, after the bombing of Kata'ib Hezbollah in late December 2019, a security briefing was convened at President Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate where he and his advisors, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff General Mark Milley discussed how to respond to Iran's alleged role in sponsoring anti-U.S. attacks in Iraq. Reportedly, the targeted killing of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani, whom U.S. officials regarded as a facilitator of attacks on U.S. personnel in Iraq, was listed as the "most extreme option" of many options on a briefing slide, and was included in order to make the other options appear more palatable, reflecting a practice among Pentagon officials whereby a very extreme option is presented to presidents so as to make other options appear more palatable. Trump chose the option to kill Soleimani. The president's order prompted the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies that have tracked Soleimani's whereabouts for years to locate him on a flight from Damascus to Baghdad, reportedly to hold meetings with Iraqi militiamen. The air strike would have been called off if Soleimani had been on his way to meet with Iraqi government officials aligned with the U.S.

According to The Washington Post, Trump was motivated in choosing to kill Soleimani by a desire to avoid the appearance of weakness amid the ongoing Persian Gulf crisis, since his decision to call off an airstrike against Iran in summer 2019 after the downing of a U.S. drone had led to what he perceived as negative media coverage. Lawmakers and aides who had spoken to him told the Post that the president also had the 2012 Benghazi attack in Libya on his mind. Pompeo had discussed killing Soleimani with Trump months before the strike, but did not garner support from the president or the defense team then in place.

According to The New York Times, Trump initially rejected the option to target Soleimani on 28 December 2019, but made the decision after being angered by television news reports of the U.S. embassy in Baghdad under attack by Iranian-backed protesters on 31 December. By late 2 January, Trump had finalized his decision, selecting the most extreme option his advisors had provided him. Top Pentagon officials were reportedly "stunned" by his decision. The Times report cited unnamed U.S. officials as saying that the intelligence regarding Soleimani's alleged plot against the U.S. was "thin" and that the Ayatollah had not approved any operation for Soleimani to carry out. However, General Milley said the intelligence was "clear and unambiguous" with a time frame of "days, weeks". Vice President Pence wrote that Soleimani was plotting "imminent" attacks on U.S. persons. U.S. secretary of state Mike Pompeo and vice president Mike Pence were reportedly the most hawkish voices arguing to retaliate against Iran. U.S. National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien insisted that Soleimani "was plotting to kill, to attack American facilities, and diplomats, soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines were located at those facilities".
:lol:

Got to remember to put "nuclear strike" into the slide deck for "deal with Iran's nuclear program" :P
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Knife » 2020-01-10 12:08am

MKSheppard wrote:
2020-01-09 07:10pm
The US (through Pentagon "sources"), Canada via PM Trudeau, UK via PM Johnson, and Ukraine via PM all say "Iranian missile shot it down".
So they say... and why I do believe it is probable. I'm not willing to just say... sure, what ever you say. If they have evidence, they can present it.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2020-01-10 01:13pm

Khaat wrote:
2020-01-09 11:38am
Or, as the case may be, who was on that flight that we aren't hearing about?
Well apparently there were 63 Canadians and 3 UK nationals aboard the plane.
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-10 07:22pm

Knife wrote:
2020-01-10 12:08am
So they say... and why I do believe it is probable. I'm not willing to just say... sure, what ever you say. If they have evidence, they can present it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/worl ... rikes.html
Wary of Israel, Iran Is Said to Err in Strikes
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
OCT. 2, 2012

The Iranian military was so apprehensive about the threat of an Israeli airstrike on its nuclear installations in 2007 and 2008 that it mistakenly fired on civilian airliners and, in one instance, on one of its own military aircraft, according to classified American intelligence reports.

The civilian planes were fired on by surface-to-air missiles and antiaircraft batteries and intercepted by Iranian fighter jets.

“Iranian air defense units have taken inappropriate actions dozens of times, including firing antiaircraft artillery and scrambling aircraft against unidentified or misidentified targets,” noted a heavily classified Pentagon intelligence report, which added that the Iranian military’s communications were so inadequate and its training deficiencies so significant that “misidentification of aircraft will continue.”

At the time, there was growing concern in Israel and the United States over Iran’s nuclear program and discussion of a military response.

In September 2007, Israeli aircraft bombed a nuclear reactor that was under construction in northeast Syria. The following year, Israel conducted a major air exercise over the Mediterranean that appeared to be a rehearsal for a potential attack on Iran’s uranium enrichment plant at Natanz.

In Iran, air defense units were edgy, fearing that an enemy aircraft might try to mimic the flight profile of a civilian airliner, according to a classified Pentagon assessment.

The combination of heightened vigilance and poor command and control led to series of mistakes, according to a highly classified 2008 Pentagon report on “Operational Mishaps by Air Defense Units.”

In June 2007, the report noted, a Revolutionary Guards air defense unit fired a TOR-M1 surface-to-air missile at a civilian airliner. In May 2008, an antiaircraft battery fired on an Iranian reconnaissance drone and a civilian airliner. That same month, an antiaircraft battery fired on an Iranian F-14 fighter jet.

In June 2008, soon after the Israeli air exercise, Iranian air defense units fired at two more civilian aircraft. In one instance, an Iranian F-4 fighter scrambled to intercept an Iraqi Airways flight from Baghdad to Tehran to visually inspect the passenger plane. The Iraqi Airways plane was not harmed.

The mishaps were not the first time that air defense forces fired at a civilian aircraft that was believed to be on a military mission. In September 1983, a Soviet pilot shot down a Korean 747 airliner that had strayed from its flight path to Seoul. The Soviet pilot later said in an interview that he knew that he was shooting at a civilian plane, but assumed that it was being used for a spy mission.

Worried about an Israeli strike, the Iranian military began to rehearse attacks of its own. Less than two weeks after Israeli warplanes practiced over the Mediterranean in June 2008, a classified Pentagon report noted, the commander of the Iranian Air Force ordered fighter units to “conduct daily air-to-ground attack training (GAT) at firing ranges resembling the Israeli city of Haifa and the Israeli nuclear facility at Dimona,” according to a classified 2008 report by the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Iraqi officials had their own concerns about a possible Israeli strike. On July 3, 2008, Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq opened a videoconference with President George W. Bush by expressing his fear that Israel might fly through Iraqi skies to attack Iran.

If Israel violated Iraqi airspace, he said, he would have no choice but to hold the United States responsible, said Mr. Maliki, who said that he could not allow Iraq to “become a battleground.”

“I hear you loud and clear,” Mr. Bush assured Mr. Maliki, according to notes of the conversation. “Nothing is more important to me than success in Iraq.”

A version of this article appears in print on October 3, 2012, on Page A8 of the New York edition with the headline: Iran, Wary Of Israel, Is Said to Err In Strikes.
Holy shit, Iran did the same thing, with the same people (IRGC) and equipment (TOR M1) over a decade ago! :D Only that time, they didn't hit their target.
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by TimothyC » 2020-01-10 11:31pm

Wall Street Journal wrote: By Georgi Kantchev in Kyiv and
Aresu Eqbali in Tehran
Updated Jan. 10, 2020 11:15 pm ET

Breaking News:

*Iran Confirms It Unintentionally Shot Down Ukrainian Airliner -- Statement

*Plane Approached Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. Military Base -- Statement

*Plane Shot Down Due To “Human Error” -- Statement

*Statement by Iranian Armed Forces Carried by State TV

(Article below will update)

Tehran gave Ukrainian investigators access Friday to the so-called black-box data and cockpit voice recorders from the Ukraine International Airlines airliner that crashed Wednesday, and Iranian investigators said they would be willing to hand them over to other countries as well for analysis.

Iran’s willingness to cooperate could help resolve an investigation that looked to be especially fraught, given the open hostilities between the U.S. and Tehran. Indeed, immediately after the crash, Iranian officials told local media that Iran’s civil aviation authority wouldn’t provide Boeing Co. or the U.S. access to the black boxes from the Boeing 737-800 jet.

Iranian officials since have invited investigators from Boeing, the U.S., Ukraine, France and Canada to probe the causes of Wednesday’s crash, which killed all 176 people on board shortly after the jet took off from Tehran, including a number of Canadians.

Just hours before the jet crashed, Iran had launched missile strikes against two bases in Iraq housing U.S. troops in retaliation for the targeted U.S. killing of Iranian Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

Tehran has denied claims by U.S., Canadian and U.K. officials that the single-aisle jet was downed by a missile system fired by Iran, possibly by mistake.

While Ukraine hasn’t reached a conclusion as to the cause, the country’s main counterintelligence and antiterrorism agency said Friday that officials are focusing on two main explanations: a missile hit or a terrorist attack. A Ukrainian official familiar with the probe said a missile is the leading theory. Kyiv expects to reach a conclusion on the cause with a high degree of certainty within two weeks, the official said.

Ukraine’s foreign minister, Vadym Prystaiko, told reporters Friday that so far Iran has granted full access for Ukraine to conduct its investigation. A team of 45 Ukrainian experts and officials is on the ground in Tehran, Ukrainian officials said.

The group has gained access to the black boxes but hadn’t started examining them, Mr. Prystaiko told reporters. Ukraine wants the recorders to be analyzed in Kyiv and is in talks with Iran over the matter. The team also is analyzing pieces of the plane and chemical compounds on the wreckage.

The Iranian investigation team said Friday it would first seek to analyze the black boxes in Iran. They could also be examined in Russia, Ukraine, France or Canada, four countries that had expressed a readiness to help, Iranian investigators said.

“If we can do it ourselves, we will,” Ali Abedzadeh, head of Iran’s Civil Aviation Organization, said during a news conference in Tehran. “If not, we will definitely ask for assistance from other countries.”

U.S. industry and government officials say the Iranians have the ability to conduct routine downloads of black-box recorders, but are skeptical they have the technical expertise and experience to extract data from damaged devices.

Obtaining reliable data from such recorders, they said, requires specialized equipment, advanced laboratory facilities and staff with a record of dealing with unusual circumstances.

A U.S. official said that before the crash, the plane was tracked by Iranian radar used to aim missiles and was then hit by a Russian-made SA-15 surface-to-air missile system.

On Friday, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the U.S. believed it was “likely” the Ukrainian airliner was shot down by an Iranian missile, and added that the U.S. would permit American investigators to travel to Iran to assist in the inquiry.

“We are going to let the investigation play out before we make a final determination,” Mr. Pompeo said. “It is important we get to the bottom of it.”

U.S. officials have shared information about the crash with Ukraine that will help the investigation, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Friday.

Ukraine’s prosecutor general’s office on Friday asked the U.S., Canada, Australia and the U.K. to share information and said it is conducting a criminal inquiry into the crash. Mr. Prystaiko, the foreign minister, said Ukraine will demand the prosecution of those responsible if it is confirmed that Iran shot down the plane.

Iran’s Mr. Abedzadeh called on Western officials to make public their missile-strike allegations via the Montreal-based International Civil Aviation Organization, a global body that sets conventions for air-accident investigations.

The plane was aflame as it attempted to return to Imam Khomeini International Airport, he said. That indicated it wasn’t shot down by a missile, he said.

It isn’t yet clear how much of a role U.S. investigators will play. U.S. sanctions on Iran mean Americans investigators need clearance from Washington to visit the Middle East state.

The National Transportation Safety Board, the U.S. entity tasked with transport-accident investigations, said it is monitoring the situation and evaluating its level of participation. Boeing has started preparing the necessary paperwork and has been in touch with both the State and Commerce departments, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

In the normal course of an investigation, some level of participation would also be expected from the Federal Aviation Administration and General Electric Co., which made the plane’s engines with a French joint-venture partner.

Canada—which said late Friday it lost 57 citizens in the crash, down from its earlier statement of 63—has vowed to work with international partners to ensure it is thoroughly investigated. Iran said Friday a 10-member Canadian team was heading to the country to manage the affairs of its citizens killed in the crash.

France’s aviation safety agency, the BEA, has appointed a preliminary representative to Iran’s investigation into the crash, but hasn’t been asked for assistance in the investigation. The U.K. issued an advisory to airlines against operating in airspace over both Iraq and Iran.

If the inquiry verifies that an Iranian missile brought down the plane, it wouldn’t be the first time tensions between the U.S. and Iran have led to an aviation tragedy. In 1988, the U.S. Navy’s Vincennes warship downed Iran Air Flight 655 with an air-defense missile.

U.S. officials said they mistook the Airbus SE A300 airliner for a warplane they feared would attack the ship. All 290 people, mostly Iranian, on the plane died, prompting an outpouring of national grief in Iran.

—Rory Jones and Sune Engel Rasmussen contributed to this article.

Write to Georgi Kantchev at georgi.kantchev@wsj.com
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Mange » 2020-01-11 01:37am

Iran has stated that the plane was indeed brought down by anti-aircraft missiles due to "human error". According to the statements, the pilots of the Ukrainian plane turned towards an IRGC base when it was fired upon. President Rouhani has expressed his regrets and apologies on Twitter.

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Broomstick » 2020-01-11 05:33am

MKSheppard wrote:
2020-01-10 07:22pm
Holy shit, Iran did the same thing, with the same people (IRGC) and equipment (TOR M1) over a decade ago! :D Only that time, they didn't hit their target.
I guess their aim has improved.
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Elfdart » 2020-01-12 06:53pm

Mange wrote:
2020-01-11 01:37am
Iran has stated that the plane was indeed brought down by anti-aircraft missiles due to "human error". According to the statements, the pilots of the Ukrainian plane turned towards an IRGC base when it was fired upon. President Rouhani has expressed his regrets and apologies on Twitter.
What nerve! Don't those crazed Iranians know that shooting down Iranian passenger jets is a privilege reserved for the USA in its role as a force for good in the world? They're such amateurs. Look at how they responded: they hemmed and hawed for a few days, then admitted they were at fault. Don't they know the correct response is to say that they'll never apologize and they don't care what the facts are?
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-12 06:56pm

Ukrainians have said that the first missile impacted almost directly under the cockpit.

This explains two things:

A.) Why no communications from the pilots.
and
B.) Why the transponder data on flight tracking websites cut out instantly.
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Sky Captain » 2020-01-13 04:11pm

Luckily this wasn't plane belonging to US airline evacuating US tourists out of potential war zone. No one would believe it was a fuckup in that case and there would be big war in Middle East starting right now.

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Straha » 2020-01-14 04:46pm

Iran has experienced mass protests over the shooting down of the plane, several people have been arrested, and there have been resignations in protest from people involved in official media.

If only America could get the same sort of energy going when it accidentally kills people. /s
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Nicholas » 2020-01-14 05:18pm

Straha wrote:
2020-01-14 04:46pm
Iran has experienced mass protests over the shooting down of the plane, several people have been arrested, and there have been resignations in protest from people involved in official media.

If only America could get the same sort of energy going when it accidentally kills people. /s
When it shot down this plane Iran killed Iranians. America does get the same sort of energy going when it kills Americans. The most recent example, but far from the only one, is the Black Lives Matter movement.

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-15 10:09pm

From twitter:
#Iran IRGC aerospace commander Hajizadeh visits families of victims & says "condolences & congratulations for their martyrdom."

Families lash back: "Our loved ones did not go to war to be martyrs. They got on a passenger plane to come home."
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-15 10:11pm

Straha wrote:
2020-01-14 04:46pm
If only America could get the same sort of energy going when it accidentally kills people. /s
I don't know, We'll get right on that when units assigned to the Military District of Washington located at a parking garage in the Washington DC Navy Yard engage an airliner taking off from Reagan National and shoot it down. :D

This was a pretty big fuck up, on top of Soleimani's unpopular war in Syria, burning up cash the sanctioned Iranian economy can't spare; particularly in an era of high unemployment.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-01-15 10:12pm

Straha wrote:
2020-01-14 04:46pm
several people have been arrested
https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/iran-arre ... -airliner/

A person who shared a video online of a missile striking a Ukrainian airliner in Iran has been arrested by the Revolutionary Guards, the elite unit that took responsibility for the plane’s downing, according to reports.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51114945

Iran says it has arrested the person who filmed the footage showing a Ukrainian passenger plane being shot down by a missile.

It is believed the person being detained will face charges related to national security.

:P
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2020-01-16 11:51am

Sky Captain wrote:
2020-01-13 04:11pm
Luckily this wasn't plane belonging to US airline evacuating US tourists out of potential war zone. No one would believe it was a fuckup in that case and there would be big war in Middle East starting right now.
Yes, but how many American tourists would really choose Iran out of all countries?
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Elheru Aran » 2020-01-16 04:03pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2020-01-16 11:51am
Sky Captain wrote:
2020-01-13 04:11pm
Luckily this wasn't plane belonging to US airline evacuating US tourists out of potential war zone. No one would believe it was a fuckup in that case and there would be big war in Middle East starting right now.
Yes, but how many American tourists would really choose Iran out of all countries?
Well there's at least one subset I can think of, albeit a fairly small one-- apparently sexual reassignment surgery is quite reasonably priced there and the surgeons are pretty good at it. Of course, the grimdark side of this is that that's because they have laws that gay people can either live straight or have a sex change... yeah.

Doubt that accounts for more than a few dozen a year though, and it's pretty obvious that America wouldn't go to war for a few 'trannies'.
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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Sky Captain » 2020-01-19 01:56pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2020-01-16 11:51am
Sky Captain wrote:
2020-01-13 04:11pm
Luckily this wasn't plane belonging to US airline evacuating US tourists out of potential war zone. No one would believe it was a fuckup in that case and there would be big war in Middle East starting right now.
Yes, but how many American tourists would really choose Iran out of all countries?
I don't know for sure, but I know few people who have been to Iran. Rent a car, drive around to places and backpacking that sort of independent travel. I just assumed from a large country like US there always would be maybe hundred or so people visiting. Enough to justify a chartered plane to evacuate them if war is about to begin,.

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Re: Qasem Soleimani (IRGC Commander) killed in Baghdad

Post by Ziggy Stardust » 2020-01-20 10:24am

I would think most American citizens in Iran are Iranian-Americans, or people who otherwise have personal and familial connections to Iran, not random backpackers (of which there are probably only a handful, at best).

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