Darth Yan wrote: ↑
loomer wrote: ↑
Darth Yan wrote: ↑
You're not really being reasonable. You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)
Hey, fuckface. Stop trying to invoke me as some kind of sinister enemy of the West. If I thought, as you keep alleging, that everything Western was bad, would I be a happy student of, theorist in, and reformer of the Western legal and philosophical tradition? Would I have an enormous love of the Cynics and Stoics and Epicureans, of Kant and Hegel and Nietzsche? Would I delight in the works of Ignatius of Loyola and Mechthild, or study the works of Plotinus and his dubious sucessors? Would I delightedly go watch John Wick films, listen to rock and metal, and go to exhibitions of classical pieces of Western art? Would I love eating French cheese as well as Kangaroo?
Either shut the fuck up or challenge me to an actual debate, you gutless coward. I'm tired of stumbling on you trying to drag me when you think I'm not looking. How the hell do you think I'm going along with Proletarian's posts when I've been inactive the entire time he's been at it? Are you so fucking stupid that you think we're all sitting in some secret discord chat plotting the downfall of the West because some of us agree that colonialism was bad and capitalism has some big issues? Because - and here's a radical idea for you - we've all arrived at those views largely independently and we all go about our lives pretty well independently of each others.
Honestly, the fucking nerve
of an ineffectual pissant like you trying to drag me because I can recognize more than a strict good/bad dualism...
Bitch please. I never said you were all “sitting in a discord chat plotting the downfall of western civilization”. I was saying that you and the others were intellectually bankrupt and seemed overly eager to play up bad elements of the west compared to bad elements of native cultures (which you never bring up unless pressed) (and no listing all those philosophers/other stuff doesn’t mean much.)
As a debator you’re basically that guy who puts on a reasonable air while saying anyone who disagrees is a simpleton. You tried to set asinine debate conditions (saying I couldn’t cite human nature or the long ass record of people being assholes), refused to even address other other points (I read the original decolonization thread. You either dodged broomsticks points completely or accused her of not answering when she did) and far from seeing shades of grey you EMBRACE black and white dualism.
You advocated dismembering the US while naively assuming that a.) most native Americans would go along with even though there’s debate within native tribes themselves of what they want b.) that all native Americans who DID go along with it had pure motives and weren’t motivated by greed or racism or that c.) most Americans would be willing to incorporate tribal values into their culture d.) that tribal governments would be fair and not just devolve into granting the small minority of native Americans all the power.
You went beyond saying capitalism has problems as well. So do Gandalf and Stas. They outright say capitalism has NO value and repeatedly ignore all the hardship that occured in communist regimes.
So no. Drop this intellectual air you’re putting on. You’re a pissant child who wants to implement utopian daydreams and when challenged you spout platitudes give plans that ignore human nature or call your opponent stupid
You really aren't very good at understanding what people have said, are you, fuckwit? Or, for that matter, at not constantly resurrecting dead arguments - or even understanding what was going on, since in that thread I consistently addressed points made and simply demanded others do the same. Since you seem to think I'm a black and white dualist who can't debate, let's debate it. We can either debate decolonization or this idea you have that I hate the West, which will be interesting to see you prove since I've probably spent far
more of my life engaging with, critiquing, appreciating, and trying to protect and redeem the panoply of cultures and contexts that 'the West' denote than you have. It is, quite literally, my goddamn job
- and it's a job I love.
And hey, in this debate you can even cite the long history of people being assholes and even make an argument to human nature - but you have to be willing to actually defend those two things
. That's the problem with your appeals to human nature, Yan - you just go 'well, humans are...' but you don't provide the slightest skerrick of evidence, not a single study, not a single philosophical or rational argument to back it beyond 'sometimes people have acted like dickheads'. That's not an asinine condition: That's basic fucking debate, buddy. Likewise, if someone refuses to actually read and answer my posts, why would I be obligated to read and answer theirs? That too is not an asinine condition, but rather a principle of mutuality, which is a basic precondition for a debate to happen.
As for an intellectual air? I don't need to put one on, buddy. If you're getting one off my posts, maybe it's because I'm just plain better read and informed than you.
I'm going to be blunt with you: Either you man up and actually debate me, since you seem to think you're a superior mind, or you shut the fuck up and stop mentioning me, and if you don't, I'll start to consider it harassment and proceed accordingly. If, as you allege, I'm a pissant child who can only spout platitudes and call my opponents stupid, you should be able to handle me, right? You should be able to demonstrate how I hate the West or even that I have an anti-Western bias generally, or that the idea of decolonization via democratic reform and indigenization is utopian nonsense as you keep alleging, right?
Or are you a gutless fucking wonder who tries to drag me when I'm not looking, and can only flail about pathetically shitting yourself while bringing up a dead argument you lost - twice, crybaby pisspants
- and complaining that basic principles of debate like 'actually justify your positions' and 'don't expect answers if you refuse to give any' are unfair and unjust to you and your little baby smoothbrain? Are you going to bring up that time a communist professor gave you a good mark again next?
"You're wonderful, and you're alive, and you deserve every little bit of happiness that the universe has to offer anyone, no matter who or what you like. Never forget that." - Achewood