Trump wants to buy Greenland.

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Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-15 07:25pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... -greenland
Trump has asked aides about possibility of US acquiring Greenland: report
BY CHRIS MILLS RODRIGO - 08/15/19 05:50 PM EDT 750

President Trump has privately asked aides about the possibility of purchasing Greenland, an autonomous Danish territory, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

Two advisers told the Journal that Trump asked them and other advisers at dinners and in passing conversations whether such a move would be possible, listening intently when they talked about its resources and geopolitical importance.

He also reportedly asked his White House counsel to look into the idea.

Some of his advisers were supportive of the move, the two sources told the Journal, saying it could be a good economic play. Others dismissed it as just a fascination.

As the Journal noted, it is unclear how the U.S. would go about purchasing Greenland, the largest island in the world.

Roughly 56,000 people live on the mostly self-governing island. Foreign and security policy is handled by Copenhagen.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the Journal's report.
So Trump does have ambitions of expanding the US territorial, to a substantial degree.

Oh well, I doubt Demark is looking to sell (nor do I expect the Greenlanders would welcome it). So unless Trump goes full Nazi and decides America needs its Lebensraum, I doubt much will come of it.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-08-15 07:31pm

Well, that would get his name in the history books.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-15 07:40pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-08-15 07:31pm
Well, that would get his name in the history books.
Why do you think he wants to do it? :wink: Pretty much everything Donald does is about his ego, sooner or later.

I mean, there's a certain strategic sense to it, from America's perspective: gaining greater control of the Arctic, which is becoming more open to shipping and resource exploitation due to climate change. And also as a potential move to head off Russian control of the Arctic, though Trump would be more likely to hand the Arctic over to Putin on a silver platter if his history is any indication.

But unless Denmark wants to sell, its a moot point, short of America going full-Reich. That said, its worth noting that this does confirm that Trump has territorial ambitions to expand America's borders. This feels like a very 19th Century ambition for a 21st. Century President to have.

Edit: A similarly impactful action that would put his name in the history books (in a good way), and be a far more fitting ambition for a 21st Century President, would be to throw himself behind statehood and full voting rights for the territories. It would also potentially earn the Republican Party the lasting loyalty of the electorates of the new states, and go a long way to countering the party's reputation for racism. But that would require Trump not being a white supremacist, so he won't do it.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Zaune » 2019-08-15 08:48pm

If he could stick to absurd, grandiose but ultimately harmless ideas like this instead of egging on the trigger-happy wehraboos for a day or two, that would honestly be a wonderful change of pace.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Solauren » 2019-08-15 08:54pm

Given ...
The natural resources found in Alaska and other Northern parts of North America
The size of the land
The possibility of long term colonization (i.e people moving from the Southern United States to cooler climes)

Attempting to purchase Greenland actually makes sense; Strip it for resources, and then build apartments on it.

Sounds like a Trump move.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-15 09:29pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-08-15 08:54pm
Given ...
The natural resources found in Alaska and other Northern parts of North America
The size of the land
The possibility of long term colonization (i.e people moving from the Southern United States to cooler climes)

Attempting to purchase Greenland actually makes sense; Strip it for resources, and then build apartments on it.

Sounds like a Trump move.
Worthwhile compared to the domestic issues that could be addressed for the same money, though? I'm honestly not sure what the value of Greenland would be, but in practical terms, probably "Whatever Denmark wanted to charge and the US was willing to pay".

And again, being openly expansionist tends to be bad optics in the 21st. Century, even if its done peacefully. And this wouldn't just be some little island, or a slight adjustment to a long-disputed border, or a merging of two or more countries into a single union (which I would likely be more supportive of). This would be a MAJOR territorial acquisition by the United States. I'm not 100% certain, but some cursory research on Wikipedia suggests that in the highly unlikely event that it went through, this would be the largest territorial acquisition by the United States since the conclusion of the Mexican-American War in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in February of 1848 (unless you count the forcible readmission of the Confederate states during the Civil War).

Its not a completely idiot move, no. There is a certain strategic logic to it, from the perspective of enhancing America's wealth and power. But I also doubt that the (mostly self-governing, currently) Greenland populace will be eager to trade rule by Denmark for rule by Trump, or that Denmark will be eager to sell the majority of their territory to the United States, which are the factors that matter the most here.

Edit: In fact, since I haven't found specific numbers yet for the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo or the acquisition of the Oregon Territory or Texas, and I'm just eyeballing here, I can't 100% rule out that it would be the largest acquisition by the US (other than the Civil War) since the Louisiana Purchase.

No wonder Mr. "I have the biggest of everything" wants to do it.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-15 09:40pm

Zaune wrote:
2019-08-15 08:48pm
If he could stick to absurd, grandiose but ultimately harmless ideas like this instead of egging on the trigger-happy wehraboos for a day or two, that would honestly be a wonderful change of pace.
Can't argue with that. If he were that kind of man, he'd probably be seen as just a lovable goof who gives fodder to the late night shows, rather than a malicious tumor threatening the world.

Hell, if he was that kind of man, it would probably mean some more money for the space program.

Unfortunately, he's a vindictive, bigoted malignant narcissist who wants to be Dictator of America.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Malagar » 2019-08-16 04:37am

Well the response from various Danish MPs is quite predictable for anyone with common sense.

One of our Greenlandic MPs says that Greenland is not a commodity to be traded and the response from a bunch of other MPs can be summed up as no way in hell. (links unfortunately in Danish)

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-16 04:39am

Malagar wrote:
2019-08-16 04:37am
Well the response from various Danish MPs is quite predictable for anyone with common sense.

One of our Greenlandic MPs says that Greenland is not a commodity to be traded and the response from a bunch of other MPs can be summed up as no way in hell. (links unfortunately in Danish)
There's also the whole thing where Greenland is mostly self-governing.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-16 09:41pm

Denmark and Greenland both laid into Trump over this:

https://theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/ ... purchasing
Donald Trump may have expressed an interest in acquiring Greenland for the US, but Denmark thinks the idea is frankly insane and Greenlanders have pointed out their home is not actually for sale.

According to the Wall Street Journal, the US president has asked his aides and the White House counsel to look into the possibility of buying the world’s largest island, a largely autonomous country of the kingdom of Denmark.

The Greenland government was diplomatic, saying it had a good working relationship with the US and saw the inquiry as “an expression of general greater interest in investing in our country and its opportunities”. But it added firmly: “Greenland is obviously not for sale.”

In comments echoed in somewhat stronger terms by other politicians in both Greenland and Denmark, Ane Lone Bagger, Greenland’s foreign minister, confirmed the country was “open for business, but not for sale”.

Greenland MFA 🇬🇱
(@GreenlandMFA)
#Greenland is rich in valuable resources such as minerals, the purest water and ice, fish stocks, seafood, renewable energy and is a new frontier for adventure tourism. We're open for business, not for sale❄️🗻🐳🦐🇬🇱 learn more about Greenland on: https://t.co/WulOi3beIC

August 16, 2019
Aaja Chemnitz Larsen, an MP from the Inuit Ataqatigiit party, Greenland’s second largest, said the response was “a ‘no thanks’ from here”. The island was not “a commodity that could be sold”, she said, and it was “tremendously uncomfortable to hear it discussed in such terms”.

Larsen told the Berlingske newspaper it would be better all round for Greenland to stay with Denmark and eventually be granted full independence. “If we were bought by the US, our welfare system would be dismantled and fundamental changes would be made to Greenlandic society,” she said. “We’d be crushed.”

Aaja Chemnitz Larsen
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Aaja Chemnitz Larsen: ‘It’s a a “no thanks” from here’.
There is a large majority of support for independence in Greenland, although little certainty about how the country would survive without funding from Denmark.

Larsen said a majority of Greenlanders “clearly think it is better to have a relationship to Denmark than the US in the long term.” Trump’s reported interest in the country was not flattering, she said, because it was “Greenland’s geostrategic location that he’s interested in. Not the country itself, or Greenlanders.”

Eighty per cent of Greenland’s 836,000 sq miles (2.16m sq km ) are covered in ice, and its 56,000 inhabitants are concentrated mainly around the coastlines and in the capital, Nuuk. The island has home rule from Denmark in most domestic matters but Copenhagen is in charge of defence and foreign affairs.

Greenland is also home to the Thule air base, the US military’s northernmost outpost, built in 1951. About 750 miles inside the Arctic Circle, the radar and listening station employs 600 personnel and is an important part of America’s global defence system.

Ordinary Greenlanders were outraged. “They tried to buy us in the past, back in the 19th century, and again after the second world war,” one resident, Bent Abeelsen, said. “Now they are trying again. But it’s not going to happen”.

Else Mathiesen told local media Trump’s plans betrayed “an age-old mindset ... You can’t just buy an island or a people. This sounds like something from the era of slavery and colonial power, when you could just take over a country.”

The Ilulissat icefjord near Ilulissat, Greenland. Most of the country is covered in ice. Photograph: Sean Gallup/Getty Images
For Indalik Høegh, the president’s plan was “just inside his head”. The island’s economy was “really not so good – it’s not surprising many Greenlanders move to Denmark. But really, it’s impossible to see Greenland becoming American.”

Danish politicians, for their part, reacted with astonishment. “It must be an April Fools’ Day joke … but totally out of season,” tweeted the former prime minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen, who heads the centre-right opposition.

Søren Espersen, of the nationalist Danish People’s party, said that if the story was true, “it is definitive proof that [Trump] has gone crazy. I have to say it as it is: the idea that Denmark would sell 50,000 citizens to the US is completely insane.”

Martin Lidegaard, of the Social Liberal party, described Trump’s reported remarks as “hopefully a joke, but otherwise a terrible idea”, while Uffe Elbæk, the leader of the progressive Alternative party, said it made Trump’s upcoming official visit to Copenhagen “the most absurd in living memory”.

Trump plans to make his first formal visit to Denmark on 2 September, meeting the country’s new Socialist prime minister, Mette Frederiksen – who herself will make her first official visit to Greenland next week – and attending a state banquet with Queen Margrethe II.

Pernille Skipper, of the Red-Green Alliance, said it “says a lot about Trump that he actually thinks you can buy a whole country and a whole people. Greenland is the Greenlanders, and this is not the 19th century. Not for sale.”

Danes were not the only non-Greenlanders to express dismay. “Oh dear lord. As someone who loves Greenland, has been there nine times to every corner and loves the people, this is a complete and total catastrophe,” tweeted Rufus Gifford, a former US ambassador to Denmark.

Denmark has, though, sold territories in the past. With the blessing of their inhabitants, it ceded the then Danish West Indies – now the US Virgin Islands – to the US in 1917 for $25m. The US also weighed buying Greenland in 1946 for $100m, after flirting with the idea of swapping land in Alaska for strategic parts of the island.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-08-17 12:56am

Pity Trump didn't get to name a price before being told to fuck off. I'd have liked to see just how bad his offer was.

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-17 12:59am

And here's the response of the foreign affairs spokesperson for the Danish People's Party, as quoted from Robert Reich's Facebook page:
If Trump is truly contemplating this, then this is final proof, that he has gone mad...The thought of Denmark selling 50,000 citizens to the U.S. is completely ridiculous.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Raw Shark » 2019-08-17 05:05pm

Not the craziest shit to come out of his mouth by miles. If nothing else, he could truly and officially replace his, "You're Fired!" stock phrase with the arguably more stylish and Gen-X friendly, "Do you want me to send you back to where you were? Unemployed in Greenland!?"

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-18 11:14pm

He's not letting this go:

https://cbc.ca/news/world/white-house-a ... -1.5251488
White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow is confirming that U.S. President Donald Trump "wants to take a look at" buying Greenland, although the semi-autonomous territory of Denmark has said it's not for sale.

Kudlow told Fox News Sunday that he won't predict what might happen, but he calls Greenland — which is situated between the Atlantic and Arctic oceans — "a strategic place" with "a lot of valuable minerals."


The U.S. military has operated for decades from Thule Air Base in Greenland. The northernmost U.S. base is part of the military's global network of radars and other sensors to provide ballistic missile warning and space surveillance.

Trump is scheduled to visit Denmark in September as part of a previously announced Europe trip.


A still Google map shows the location of North America, Greenland and Denmark. (Google Earth)
After the idea of him buying Greeland emerged on Friday, some advisers dismissed it as a joke.

"If he is truly contemplating this, then this is final proof, that he has gone mad," Soren Espersen, the foreign affairs spokesperson for the Danish People's Party, told broadcaster DR.

"The thought of Denmark selling 50,000 citizens to the United States is completely ridiculous," he said.
https://ctvnews.ca/world/trump-says-buy ... -1.4554928
WASHINGTON -- U.S. President Donald Trump said Sunday the idea of buying Greenland from Denmark has been discussed within his administration because of the strategic benefits for the U.S. and suggested that the semi-autonomous territory is a financial burden to Denmark.

Surprise and confusion greeted a Wall Street Journal report last Thursday that Trump has been raising the subject of buying Greenland in recent weeks. Officials in Greenland have said it's not for sale and Trump allowed Sunday that it's not a priority of his administration.

"It's just something we've talked about," Trump told reporters when asked about the idea. "Denmark essentially owns it. We're very good allies with Denmark. We've protected Denmark like we protect large portions of the world, so the concept came up."

The U.S. military has operated for decades from Thule Air Base in Greenland, which is situated between the Atlantic and Arctic oceans. The northern-most U.S. base is part of the military's global network of radars and other sensors to provide ballistic missile warning and space surveillance.

"Strategically it's interesting and we'd be interested, but we'll talk to them a little bit. It's not No. 1 on the burner, I can tell you that," the president said.

Trump, who made a fortune in the New York real estate market and owns or licenses properties around the world, appeared to cast the idea from the perspective of a developer.

"Essentially, it's a large real estate deal. A lot of things can be done. It's hurting Denmark very badly, because they're losing almost $700 million a year carrying it. So they carry it at a great loss," he said.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow, appearing on "Fox News Sunday," said Greenland is "a strategic place" with "a lot of valuable minerals."

Trump is expected to visit Denmark in September as part of a trip to Europe.
"Essentially, its a large real estate deal. A lot of things can be done. It's hurting Denmark very badly, because they're losing almost $700 million a year carrying it."

:banghead:

Clearly, the notion that Denmark might value Greenland for reasons other than purely financial ones, or that a semi-autonomous region of 50,000 people can't simply be bought and sold, is beyond his ability to fathom.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-08-19 12:56am

So we might still get to hear Trump make his offer and people questioning where he thinks he could get the money from.

How long before we start hearing about Trumps plans to invade Greenland ?

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-19 01:03am

bilateralrope wrote:
2019-08-19 12:56am
So we might still get to hear Trump make his offer and people questioning where he thinks he could get the money from.
No doubt from something that actually helps people. Or maybe he expects Denmark to pay for it?
How long before we start hearing about Trumps plans to invade Greenland ?
Note that, as Denmark is a NATO member, and Article V stipulates that an attack on one member is an attack on all members, an invasion of Denmark would basically amount to the US declaring war on itself.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-08-19 01:12am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-08-19 01:03am
Note that, as Denmark is a NATO member, and Article V stipulates that an attack on one member is an attack on all members, an invasion of Denmark would basically amount to the US declaring war on itself.
I wonder what Putin would think of that :)

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-19 01:24am

bilateralrope wrote:
2019-08-19 01:12am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-08-19 01:03am
Note that, as Denmark is a NATO member, and Article V stipulates that an attack on one member is an attack on all members, an invasion of Denmark would basically amount to the US declaring war on itself.
I wonder what Putin would think of that :)
I can't really imagine Putin dancing a jig in sheer joy, but I wouldn't rule it out.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Straha » 2019-08-19 11:25am

Funnily enough, this isn't the first time this has been brought up by a presidential hopeful. This was a plank in Pat Buchanan's 2000 electoral platform.
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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by Raw Shark » 2019-08-19 06:23pm

The New Yorker wrote: Denmark Offers to Buy U.S.

By Andy Borowitz

August 16, 2019
Fedor Selivanov / Alamy Stock Photo

COPENHAGEN (The Borowitz Report)—After rebuffing Donald J. Trump’s hypothetical proposal to purchase Greenland, the government of Denmark has announced that it would be interested in buying the United States instead.

“As we have stated, Greenland is not for sale,” a spokesperson for the Danish government said on Friday. “We have noted, however, that during the Trump regime pretty much everything in the United States, including its government, has most definitely been for sale.”

“Denmark would be interested in purchasing the United States in its entirety, with the exception of its government,” the spokesperson added.

A key provision of the purchase offer, the spokesperson said, would be the relocation of Donald Trump to another country “to be determined,” with Russia and North Korea cited as possible destinations.

If Denmark’s bid for the United States is accepted, the Scandinavian nation has ambitious plans for its new acquisition. “We believe that, by giving the U.S. an educational system and national health care, it could be transformed from a vast land mass into a great nation,” the spokesperson said.
I, for one, welcome our new viking overlords.

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Re: Trump wants to buy Greenland.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-08-19 06:36pm

We could do a lot worse, honestly.
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