Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

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Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 10:55am

Something I'm wondering about. Rey is the Last Jedi. However, one Jedi can't be everywhere. The Old Republic relied on a strong Jedi Order to keep the peace, and the New Republic likely failed in part because it did not have one, or anything to replace it. The end of TLJ indicated that Luke's death would inspire others, including other young Force users. So who will train them? Logically, Rey.

Except Rey, while possessing abundant power, lacks experience. Even if we assume that she has overcome her insecurities about her past and lack of belonging, and resisted the lure of the Dark Side, in TLJ, she's still someone who possesses more "street smarts" and very little "book smarts"- she demonstrates a noticeable lack of knowledge of Force lore or galactic history and politics in the films, and she has conspicuously failed pretty much every time she has tried to persuade someone of something important (Finn to stay with her in TFA, Luke to come back in TLJ, Kylo to quit the Dark Side in TLJ).

Now, I don't expect her training an apprentice, or apprentices, to be a main plot in Episode IX. I expect she'll mainly be busy fighting Kylo (and maybe Palpatine :wink: ). But I wonder if there will be at least a nod to her training apprentices at some point in the film. And what sort of teacher Rey would be? She can't follow traditional Jedi doctrine, after all- even more than Luke, she just plain doesn't know it. So she'd kind of have to reinvent it as she goes, following at most loose guidelines.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2019-04-15 11:00am

Maybe it'd be less of a apprenticeship and more of a familial thing, so none of the detached emotionless stuff, more of a surrogate community and we can even have Finn and Poe and Rose and others acting as Cool Uncle/Aunts and such to nurture well-rounded individuals who have the basis, as good people, to properly wield the Force. Rather than detachment and immersion in abstract theology.

The Hey Arnold approach to raising mystical space warriors.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 11:06am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
2019-04-15 11:00am
Maybe it'd be less of a apprenticeship and more of a familial thing, so none of the detached emotionless stuff, more of a surrogate community and we can even have Finn and Poe and Rose and others acting as Cool Uncle/Aunts and such to nurture well-rounded individuals who have the basis, as good people, to properly wield the Force. Rather than detachment and immersion in abstract theology.

The Hey Arnold approach to raising mystical space warriors.
I could go for that.

Rey's main weakness, her main flaw, is her insecurity resulting from her lack of a family and sense of identity, and her resulting eagerness to latch onto anything that can offer her that, which allows her to be tempted by the Dark Side and manipulated by Snoke and Kylo in TLJ.

It would be fitting, then, if the end of her arc was to create her own family, her own sense of identity. To me, that's what IX should be about- if Rey's identity is "No One", then the logical next step in her journey is to become someone, by forging her own identity.

I'm not sure how that squares with the film's title being "The Rise of Skywalker", but even if she was a Skywalker, she'd be the last one once Leia's gone. Or, as some have suggested, she could create a new order and name it after the Skywalkers.

I do agree that the Jedi should not return to the "no attachment" stuff. That, to me, would represent a final betrayal of the thematic progression of the Jedi over the last two trilogies.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-15 11:21am

The heck does she even know to pass on? I don't recall her really learning anything. She's just so blessed and favour by the force that she just does things.

Though she could sort of lead a self-help study group from the Jedi Text she got from Luke, I guess.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-15 11:31am

Crazedwraith wrote:
2019-04-15 11:21am
The heck does she even know to pass on? I don't recall her really learning anything. She's just so blessed and favour by the force that she just does things.
Well, if nothing else, TLJ ought to have taught her that the Dark Side lies by playing on your fears. Which is really probably the single most important thing for a Force user to know. Although notably she learned this lesson after Yoda told Luke that she already knew anything the texts could have taught her. Could it be that Yoda saw how the confrontation with Snoke and Kylo would play out?
Though she could sort of lead a self-help study group from the Jedi Text she got from Luke, I guess.
As well as her personal life experiences.

Again, Rey strikes me as a case of "street smarts vs book smarts". She has virtually no formal training in the Force, little knowledge of the academic theory behind the Jedi teachings or any other theory of the Force- so she'd be forced to rely on personal experience as a teacher. Though as Gandalf would say "The burned hand teaches best."

One thing I wonder is, if Force users can survive as ghosts, why do we not see the dead Force users coming back to teach students?

Pity Ahsoka is... well, we really don't know, at this point. Ahsoka always seemed to have a knack for teaching, when she interacted with younger and less experienced Jedi students in The Clone Wars. My own fan theory is that Ahsoka would have become a teacher if things played out differently.

Honestly, Lando and Palpatine are cool and all, but the cameo I'd most like in IX is probably an old Ahsoka. That or Force ghost Anakin coming back to tell Kylo "You fucked up Grandson."
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by ray245 » 2019-04-16 06:47am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-15 10:55am
Something I'm wondering about. Rey is the Last Jedi. However, one Jedi can't be everywhere. The Old Republic relied on a strong Jedi Order to keep the peace, and the New Republic likely failed in part because it did not have one, or anything to replace it. The end of TLJ indicated that Luke's death would inspire others, including other young Force users. So who will train them? Logically, Rey.

Except Rey, while possessing abundant power, lacks experience. Even if we assume that she has overcome her insecurities about her past and lack of belonging, and resisted the lure of the Dark Side, in TLJ, she's still someone who possesses more "street smarts" and very little "book smarts"- she demonstrates a noticeable lack of knowledge of Force lore or galactic history and politics in the films, and she has conspicuously failed pretty much every time she has tried to persuade someone of something important (Finn to stay with her in TFA, Luke to come back in TLJ, Kylo to quit the Dark Side in TLJ).

Now, I don't expect her training an apprentice, or apprentices, to be a main plot in Episode IX. I expect she'll mainly be busy fighting Kylo (and maybe Palpatine :wink: ). But I wonder if there will be at least a nod to her training apprentices at some point in the film. And what sort of teacher Rey would be? She can't follow traditional Jedi doctrine, after all- even more than Luke, she just plain doesn't know it. So she'd kind of have to reinvent it as she goes, following at most loose guidelines.
Will the writers even allow her to train students? Because the writing team for the ST seems averse to write a setting with a full-fledged Jedi Order, and seems to revert to the OT story-structure.

Let's wait 30 years and see Rey's Jedi Order fall apart once again because we can't have a big Jedi Order.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-16 06:55am

Partly its OT worship, I suppose, and partly its the obsession with the Lone Vigilante Hero trope. They tried to subvert that with Poe and Holdo, and the fandom screamed to high heaven.

The only major franchise I can think that really subverted that successfully was Star Trek on occassion, where sure, you had your "Kirk goes rogue and violates orders to save the day" plots, but the heroes were nonetheless part of a larger organization that was generally depicted as benevolent.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by ray245 » 2019-04-16 07:39am

The OT worship needs to die if the Star Wars franchise can broaden into different types of stories and different perspectives. We could have gotten a Rey-centered story about how she grew from a no-name padawan learner in Luke's academy into a Jedi Master that surpass other Jedi knights that has better/more famous bloodlines.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-16 05:57pm

ray245 wrote:
2019-04-16 07:39am
The OT worship needs to die if the Star Wars franchise can broaden into different types of stories and different perspectives. We could have gotten a Rey-centered story about how she grew from a no-name padawan learner in Luke's academy into a Jedi Master that surpass other Jedi knights that has better/more famous bloodlines.
I still feel there's potential for an interesting story here- Rey No One forging her own identity as she rebuilds the Jedi Order into something new, relying less on its ancient teachings and more on her own experiences and friendships.

I just don't trust JJ Abrams to be the man to effectively tell that story.

Edit: When the ST wraps up, I will probably do an alternate universe fanfic rewriting it- not to bash it, because overall I do like it more than dislike it, and there's nothing I absolutely hate about it. But there are some avenues unexplored that I'd like to go down.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-16 06:26pm

Although it occurs to me that its a bit premature to say that there's nothing I absolutely hate about it. Rey redeeming Kylo, Rey/Kylo shipping, Rose being casually killed off/fridged, or a return of the Jedi can't have attachments crap, are all things IX could pull that would deeply alienate me.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by ray245 » 2019-04-16 07:14pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-16 05:57pm
I still feel there's potential for an interesting story here- Rey No One forging her own identity as she rebuilds the Jedi Order into something new, relying less on its ancient teachings and more on her own experiences and friendships.

I just don't trust JJ Abrams to be the man to effectively tell that story.
The issue is that story can be told even without the destruction of Luke's Jedi Order. It would have been far more interesting if she had to compete with her fellow students rather than be handed the mantle by default of being the sole survivor. And with Luke being dead, there's no one to disagree with her on how she should build the Jedi Order.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-16 07:37pm

ray245 wrote:
2019-04-16 07:14pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-16 05:57pm
I still feel there's potential for an interesting story here- Rey No One forging her own identity as she rebuilds the Jedi Order into something new, relying less on its ancient teachings and more on her own experiences and friendships.

I just don't trust JJ Abrams to be the man to effectively tell that story.
The issue is that story can be told even without the destruction of Luke's Jedi Order. It would have been far more interesting if she had to compete with her fellow students rather than be handed the mantle by default of being the sole survivor. And with Luke being dead, there's no one to disagree with her on how she should build the Jedi Order.
Those would be interesting angles, though we got a bit of the disagreement with Luke in TLJ, and could get more via Force ghost in IX.

I do like the idea of Rey having to compete with other students, deal with different viewpoints on how the Force should work, etc. You could even have Kylo be a more personal rivalry- a fellow student who resents Rey's successes, resents being outdone by a girl (Kylo being basically an Incel in Space), disagrees with her interpretation of the Force, whatever. You could even have the whole Kylo slaughtering the other students plot- except rather than being backstory, it happens at the end of the first film, with Rey rallying the survivors to go find Luke in the second film, and then defeat Kylo and those who joined him in the third (Jedi Civil War, basically).
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-16 08:11pm

Another thing I'll add that I'd like to see in IX- The Knights of Ren. Specifically the idea of at least some of them being students of Lukes' who joined Kylo rather than be massacred by him, and Rey turning at least one of them back to the light. Because it would allow for the theme of redemption without a Rey redeems Kylo plot, and it would mean that something of Luke's order survived- that it wasn't all for nothing.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Knife » 2019-04-16 10:02pm

It's not OT worships to ask what the fuck does Rey have to offer as a teacher beyond scrapping? Hell, I like Rey, I'm a TFA liker. She knows shit. It's like asking if Luke is going to take an apprentice in ESB after Cloud City.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Gandalf » 2019-04-16 10:32pm

I don't see her taking apprentices in the manner we've seen with Jedi in the past. I can however see something of a revolutionary leader type emerging, with a more democratised view of things like the Force.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-17 01:22am

Well, we do have another force sensitive character in the movies that isn't affiliated with the First Order or is dead. The child slave on Canto Bight who has to resume sweeping at the end of the film. Hopefully they'll go somewhere with him plotwise. As opposed to, "Yeah, this kid is still a slave. Sucks, doesn't it?"
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Gandalf » 2019-04-17 01:26am

Like all of the slave kids Anakin knew on Tatooine, or seemingly every droid. Star Wars is just really cool with slavery.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-17 02:16am

Gandalf wrote:
2019-04-16 10:32pm
I don't see her taking apprentices in the manner we've seen with Jedi in the past. I can however see something of a revolutionary leader type emerging, with a more democratised view of things like the Force.
Having a less-centralized Jedi Order could make it less vulnerable, and less alienating to some students (like Anakin). But no government is going to be happy with an order of superpowered people with no centralized authority overseeing them, I'd imagine.
Gandalf wrote:
2019-04-17 01:26am
Like all of the slave kids Anakin knew on Tatooine, or seemingly every droid. Star Wars is just really cool with slavery.
This is a downside of the whole "classic fantasy in space" thing, Star Wars has going.

Sometimes its portrayed negatively, and some attention is drawn to the horrors of it. While we didn't see Anakin getting whipped or chained or anything, his enslavement was certainly portrayed as a wrong, and as part of the reason behind his psychological issues and ultimate fall as an adult.* But other times...

I'm not sure whether AotC/RotS or Solo handled it the worst- the former films basically had slaves without acknowledging it as such. The latter went out of its way to point it out, then treated the character who wanted to liberate the slaves as a joke, before ending the film with the protagonists trading her as property to settle a gambling debt. Nice.

Let's just say I have good reason to hate Solo, and that's the main one.

I suppose there's a certain horrible realism to the casual racism towards droids and clones that we see, with the protagonists participating in slavery without a second thought. Its so ingrained in their society that to them its normal.
FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-04-17 01:22am
Well, we do have another force sensitive character in the movies that isn't affiliated with the First Order or is dead. The child slave on Canto Bight who has to resume sweeping at the end of the film. Hopefully they'll go somewhere with him plotwise. As opposed to, "Yeah, this kid is still a slave. Sucks, doesn't it?"
I think that he is supposed to simply symbolize all of the children around the galaxy who will be inspired to rise up and become more due to Luke's actions.

But I wouldn't mind seeing him again. If nothing else, though, I'm sure we'll get an EU novel laying out his entire life story at some point.
Knife wrote:
2019-04-16 10:02pm
It's not OT worships to ask what the fuck does Rey have to offer as a teacher beyond scrapping?
Never said it was. I was talking about the attachment to "Lone Vigilante Hero" plots which appeal to the American ideals of the heroic outlaw and Rugged Individualism.

But as to what she could teach:

-Salvage, obviously, as noted above. Probably machine maintainance on ships and droids too.
-Hand to hand combat.
-Maybe marksmanship, though she shines less there than in hand-to-hand.
-Desert survival skills.
-Piloting, probably (even if her ability is largely an outgrowth of her ability in the Force, that will be relevant to training Jedi).
-Warning students, based on her own experiences, about the temptations of the Dark Side.
Hell, I like Rey, I'm a TFA liker. She knows shit. It's like asking if Luke is going to take an apprentice in ESB after Cloud City.
I mean, its not like they have to follow the plot outline of the OT every step of the way. They could have the next film start five years later if they wanted to, with a much older and more experienced Rey.



*Put it that way, and Vader starts to sound like a karmic scourge to punish the galaxy for slavery. As Lincoln's Second Inaugural put it:

"Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, this mighty scourge of war will speedily pass away. But if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall have been sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall have been repaid with another drawn by the sword, as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said today: the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
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"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-17 02:37am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-17 02:16am
Gandalf wrote:
2019-04-17 01:26am
Like all of the slave kids Anakin knew on Tatooine, or seemingly every droid. Star Wars is just really cool with slavery.
This is a downside of the whole "classic fantasy in space" thing, Star Wars has going.

Sometimes its portrayed negatively, and some attention is drawn to the horrors of it. While we didn't see Anakin getting whipped or chained or anything, his enslavement was certainly portrayed as a wrong, and as part of the reason behind his psychological issues and ultimate fall as an adult.* But other times...

I'm not sure whether AotC/RotS or Solo handled it the worst- the former films basically had slaves without acknowledging it as such. The latter went out of its way to point it out, then treated the character who wanted to liberate the slaves as a joke, before ending the film with the protagonists trading her as property to settle a gambling debt. Nice.

Let's just say I have good reason to hate Solo, and that's the main one.

I suppose there's a certain horrible realism to the casual racism towards droids and clones that we see, with the protagonists participating in slavery without a second thought. Its so ingrained in their society that to them its normal.
On the plus side, in the old EU, and in Clone Wars, the Clone Troopers were given names, bars, and certain rights by the Jedi, who wanted to treat them like people as much as possible. Even trying to give them a fair shake whenever possible. Note how much this differs from the Kaminoans, who are rather puzzled by it. Though, it might be akin to a horse breeder being rather puzzled that the person who legally 'owns' the horse is talking to them and treating them like a friend as opposed to just a living vehicle.
FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-04-17 01:22am
Well, we do have another force sensitive character in the movies that isn't affiliated with the First Order or is dead. The child slave on Canto Bight who has to resume sweeping at the end of the film. Hopefully they'll go somewhere with him plotwise. As opposed to, "Yeah, this kid is still a slave. Sucks, doesn't it?"
I think that he is supposed to simply symbolize all of the children around the galaxy who will be inspired to rise up and become more due to Luke's actions.

But I wouldn't mind seeing him again. If nothing else, though, I'm sure we'll get an EU novel laying out his entire life story at some point.
Well, I'm not really a fan of a Jedi Children's crusade, as we've discussed before, but we'll have to see where episode IX takes it. I'm in favor of a Temple of Doom freeing all the children scene, myself.

And yeah, it's the EU, they'll cover everybody eventually. I'm waiting on the book that gives us the life story of the alien who treated BB-8 as a slot machine. :wink:
Knife wrote:
2019-04-16 10:02pm
It's not OT worships to ask what the fuck does Rey have to offer as a teacher beyond scrapping?
Never said it was. I was talking about the attachment to "Lone Vigilante Hero" plots which appeal to the American ideals of the heroic outlaw and Rugged Individualism.

But as to what she could teach:

-Salvage, obviously, as noted above. Probably machine maintainance on ships and droids too.
-Hand to hand combat.
-Maybe marksmanship, though she shines less there than in hand-to-hand.
-Desert survival skills.
-Piloting, probably (even if her ability is largely an outgrowth of her ability in the Force, that will be relevant to training Jedi).
-Warning students, based on her own experiences, about the temptations of the Dark Side.
You forgot how to hitch rides from TIE fighters like you're half Marty McFly, half Neo. :D
*Put it that way, and Vader starts to sound like a karmic scourge to punish the galaxy for slavery. As Lincoln's Second Inaugural put it:

"Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, this mighty scourge of war will speedily pass away. But if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall have been sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall have been repaid with another drawn by the sword, as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said today: the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
Star Wars Spartacus still needs to happen, with the Kaminoans getting the same consequences as the Roman slave masters.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-17 02:43am

Well, I'd watch Spartacus in space*, though I don't know if it would fit with the ST at this point. If you wanted a trilogy focus on that, it would have been better to start laying the ground work early. But as a TV multi-parter or standalone film... yeah.


*I'm a big fan of the original Spartacus, both because its a damn fine movie, and because, on a nostalgic note, it was the last film I watched with my dad before he passed away.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-17 02:48am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-17 02:43am
Well, I'd watch Spartacus in space*, though I don't know if it would fit with the ST at this point. If you wanted a trilogy focus on that, it would have been better to start laying the ground work early. But as a TV multi-parter or standalone film... yeah.


*I'm a big fan of the original Spartacus, both because its a damn fine movie, and because, on a nostalgic note, it was the last film I watched with my dad before he passed away.
Sorry about your father. I know what it's like to lose a parent.

I think a Star Wars Spartacus could happen as a stand alone film or as part of the next trilogy, thanks to The Last Jedi going out of it's way to establish that slavery is alive and well in the Star Wars galaxy, even after the New Republic won against the Galactic Empire. But that's dependent on whether or not JJ Abrams has Episode IX deal with the fact that presumably, thousands, if not millions are either literally or figuratively in chains and forced to do their master's bidding, even if they're not droids or clones.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by ray245 » 2019-04-17 04:07am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-16 07:37pm

The issue is that story can be told even without the destruction of Luke's Jedi Order. It would have been far more interesting if she had to compete with her fellow students rather than be handed the mantle by default of being the sole survivor. And with Luke being dead, there's no one to disagree with her on how she should build the Jedi Order.
Those would be interesting angles, though we got a bit of the disagreement with Luke in TLJ, and could get more via Force ghost in IX.

I do like the idea of Rey having to compete with other students, deal with different viewpoints on how the Force should work, etc. You could even have Kylo be a more personal rivalry- a fellow student who resents Rey's successes, resents being outdone by a girl (Kylo being basically an Incel in Space), disagrees with her interpretation of the Force, whatever. You could even have the whole Kylo slaughtering the other students plot- except rather than being backstory, it happens at the end of the first film, with Rey rallying the survivors to go find Luke in the second film, and then defeat Kylo and those who joined him in the third (Jedi Civil War, basically).
[/quote]

I just think this would have made Rey the primary driver of the plot, and making it her story rather than her sort of being dragged along by the ride by others. It would have reduced the amount of people who felt Rey was a bit of a Mary-Sue, because it would have increased her agency as a character.

I waited years to see a return of a new Jedi Order after ROTJ. To see a lack of one, and having our main protagonist effectively being in the same role as Luke was, is rather disappointing to me. I for one would love to see how Rey deals with a Skywalker family from the EU, how she would have dealt with Jaina, Jacen and Anakin Solo, as well as Ben Skywalker. One of them could have been a version of Kylo Ren, jealous that Rey is more powerful than him despite his more famous heritage.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-17 04:13am

Not sure that would have reduced, rather than amplified, the Mary Sue whining, but aside from that...

Well, as interesting as the story might be, if the Skywalker kids had been included, there's no way that they wouldn't have been made the main protagonists. Although really, Kylo is basically an adaptation of Jacen Solo with a different name already, in a lot of respects.

It would have been nice to see more of a full New Jedi Order, yeah. Though that's arguably still not really doing something new, so much as adapting the Legends EU.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by ray245 » 2019-04-17 08:20am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-17 04:13am
Not sure that would have reduced, rather than amplified, the Mary Sue whining, but aside from that...
It would have shown Rey interacting against her fellow peers, and that would have given her more personal challenge beyond finding out who her parents were. While there will be sexists who will whine about her being a Mary sue on the basis of her gender, I think a story with Rey going up against her fellow students would have weakened such voices.
Well, as interesting as the story might be, if the Skywalker kids had been included, there's no way that they wouldn't have been made the main protagonists. Although really, Kylo is basically an adaptation of Jacen Solo with a different name already, in a lot of respects.
It would have made the thematic message that anyone can be a Jedi a much stronger one. The best Jedi of the next generation doesn't have to be an Skywalker or a Solo. Bloodlines doesn't automatically make you a top Jedi. Talent and effort should count, and it would have been a good contrast if we have good/light side Skywalkers/Solo that aren't better than Rey.

The problem with Kylo is that he has already fallen to the Dark side before Rey is introduced. The opportunity to explore their relationship as fellow students is gone.

It would have been nice to see more of a full New Jedi Order, yeah. Though that's arguably still not really doing something new, so much as adapting the Legends EU.
I would rather they adapt the Legends EU than remake the set up of the OT. I am sick and tired of the "last of the Jedi" storyline after years of stories about Luke being the last Jedi. If we want a movie series with a lone Jedi saving the Galaxy, we can always rewatch the OT. I wanted and hoped for a ST to take up the challenge of exploring how the New Jedi Order would have been better or different from the old Jedi Order.

Instead we have to wait yet another 30 years ( real life years) before the New Jedi Order grew to a size comparable to what we saw in the PT. I'm not even sure if I will be alive in 30 years to watch a new Jedi Order on the big screen. I just think JJ Abrams and Disney wasted many people's time with the set-up they've given us.

I just cannot respect the creative vision set up by the writers and directors of the ST. They have wasted Carrie Fisher in a story that doesn't offer much. But I am getting off-topic now.
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Re: Will Rey take apprentices in Episode IX?

Post by Gandalf » 2019-04-17 05:13pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-04-17 02:37am
On the plus side, in the old EU, and in Clone Wars, the Clone Troopers were given names, bars, and certain rights by the Jedi, who wanted to treat them like people as much as possible. Even trying to give them a fair shake whenever possible. Note how much this differs from the Kaminoans, who are rather puzzled by it. Though, it might be akin to a horse breeder being rather puzzled that the person who legally 'owns' the horse is talking to them and treating them like a friend as opposed to just a living vehicle.
Did they have the right to leave their positions as Clonetroopers?
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