Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

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Raj Ahten
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Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by Raj Ahten » 2018-10-13 05:38pm

And then they cut up his body and shipped it back to the Kingdom, if Turkish sources are correct. This whole affair is a new low and really quite despicable in its barbarism. Apparently the crown prince wants his critics heads on pikes, quite literally it would seem. The moral bankruptcy of the current US administration is also on full display. Trump wants to pretend that nothing happened so he can still keep selling weapons. (Which will be used to bomb Yemen, another clusterfuck.) It's open season on dissidents now. Article on the matter.

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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-13 07:21pm

Trump is probably glad the Saudis murdered a Washington Post journalist, and is wondering if he can get away with doing the same.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by aerius » 2018-10-13 07:50pm

Nothing new. Welcome to US-Saudi relations for the last 60+ years.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-13 08:37pm

Yeah, but I'm also pretty sure you would say "nothing new" even if Trump rolled tanks down the National Mall and pulled a Tiananmen Square. At some point, its pretty obviously just an excuse not to care about atrocities, and to sneer at anyone who does.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by aerius » 2018-10-13 08:56pm

You obviously have no fucking clue on the history of US-Saudi relations (I'm not surprised, you're fucking clueless on damn near everything). Newsflash, the US has been happily selling them weapons for the last 60 years so that they can oppress their own people and wage proxy wars on all their neighbours. Not to mention funding radical fundamentalist terrorist groups. Saudis beheading foreign journalists is about as routine as people being killed by drunk drivers. The US government turning a blind eye to Saudi atrocities while selling them weapons and giving them oil money has been standard operating procedure since before I was born.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-10-13 09:36pm

Really the only thing you can hope for is that since Trump is already so anti-press this might actually get some traction. But I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-10-13 11:42pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-13 08:37pm
Yeah, but I'm also pretty sure you would say "nothing new" even if Trump rolled tanks down the National Mall and pulled a Tiananmen Square. At some point, its pretty obviously just an excuse not to care about atrocities, and to sneer at anyone who does.
For Trump, that would be nothing new, but that doesn't mean anyone here has become desensitized to the atrocities being carried out in the name of US foreign policy, especially when it comes to aiding and abetting a terrorist enabling state who just happened to find an excuse to invade territory they have always considered rightfully theirs.

It's good to be concerned about this latest outrage, but it is equally good to put this in the proper context.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-14 05:04pm

aerius wrote:
2018-10-13 08:56pm
You obviously have no fucking clue on the history of US-Saudi relations (I'm not surprised, you're fucking clueless on damn near everything). Newsflash, the US has been happily selling them weapons for the last 60 years so that they can oppress their own people and wage proxy wars on all their neighbours. Not to mention funding radical fundamentalist terrorist groups. Saudis beheading foreign journalists is about as routine as people being killed by drunk drivers. The US government turning a blind eye to Saudi atrocities while selling them weapons and giving them oil money has been standard operating procedure since before I was born.
I am well aware of that history, and you (and others) should not presume my ignorance simply because I do not list every Saudi and American atrocity in my most recent post. But that history does not change my view that "this is nothing new" is a piss poor response to atrocities, that at some point it simply becomes an excuse for the apathetic or self-indulgently cynical not to give a shit, and that it is one which you tend to fall back on.

Seriously, what is your point: "The US and the Saudis did shitty things before, so only an ignorant fool would care this time?" How does that even follow? And if that is your position, why don't you do us all a favour and not care enough to stop posting?

Yeah, shit like this has gone on before- but seldom with this much publicity. Is this case more deserving of that publicity than every other shitty thing involving the Saudis? Probably not. But this is the way people are- its impossible, no matter how well-informed or committed to an issue you are, to be aware of or acknowledge every horrible thing that happens in the world, so people tend to focus on specific, dramatic cases that then become in some way emblematic of the larger issues (which then unfortunately allows those who wish to silence such criticism to play the Whataboutism card and call them hypocrites for not also talking about (insert issue here)). Criticism of the Saudis, and America's relationship with them, has been around for a long time, and building recently due to the war in Yemen. This case, I think, has simply become symbolic of a much larger issue.

Its also getting more attention now because while other American governments have made dubious arms deals with the Saudis, with Trump there's the added issue of his close personal business ties, his conflicts of interest, his complete disregard for the emoluments clause... so there's an added issue of whether Trump is acting out of what he sees (rightly or wrongly) as the national interest, or whether he is acting purely for personal profit.

Donald being Donald, my money is firmly on the latter.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by Ziggy Stardust » 2018-10-14 10:19pm

aerius wrote:
2018-10-13 08:56pm
Saudis beheading foreign journalists is about as routine as people being killed by drunk drivers.
Um, would you care to actually point to some examples?

The online archives of the Committee to Protect Journalists only has a single killing of a foreign journalist in Saudi Arabia since 1992, who was gunned down by Al-Qaeda operatives, not beheaded by the state. UNESCO also keeps a database of killed journalists, which lists only the same case for Saudi Arabia. I cannot find any evidence that Saudi Arabia has any established history of regularly murdering foreign journalists as you claim.

Saudi Arabia has done enough horrible things that you shouldn't be having to make stuff up.

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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by aerius » 2018-10-14 10:56pm

It's Saudi Arabia. After the first 500 decapitations it's kinda hard to remember who's losing their heads.
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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by Aleister Crowley » 2018-10-14 11:00pm

aerius wrote:
2018-10-14 10:56pm
It's Saudi Arabia. After the first 500 decapitations it's kinda hard to remember who's losing their heads.
Why isn't the American government demanding answers from the Saudis? This is exactly what the terrorists do. If they're the allies of America then surely they should have to answer for their actions. I mean, if any other country did it that's how it would be. Great Britain doesn't get a pass. None of the European Union would. If Japan even made the slightest noise of chopping anyone's head off, they would be hit so hard. Why does Saudi Arabia get to be the exception? Those are rhetorical questions of course, but I'd love to hear your opinion on this. I might give mine after. I'll just hold out for now.

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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by Raj Ahten » 2018-10-15 12:02am

aerius wrote:
2018-10-13 08:56pm
You obviously have no fucking clue on the history of US-Saudi relations (I'm not surprised, you're fucking clueless on damn near everything). Newsflash, the US has been happily selling them weapons for the last 60 years so that they can oppress their own people and wage proxy wars on all their neighbours. Not to mention funding radical fundamentalist terrorist groups. Saudis beheading foreign journalists is about as routine as people being killed by drunk drivers. The US government turning a blind eye to Saudi atrocities while selling them weapons and giving them oil money has been standard operating procedure since before I was born.
Deciding to kill dissidents abroad under the cover of diplomatic offices is pretty brazen by any standard. It doesn't exactly happen every day. The only people I can really think of who do it on a semi regular basis are North Korea and Russia and those operations were hardly no cost.


Given how this case is going I expect we'll see far more of this type of thing in the future if the response is basically a shrug from official quarters. I will say Trump is good for one thing here though: showcasing US hypocrisy in mideast affairs, which, as you note, is nothing new.

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Re: Saudis Kill Journalist in Instanbul Consulate

Post by Tribble » 2018-10-15 12:13am

What is Saudi Arabia's relationship with Turkey? And Edrogan's relationship with the USA? Edrogan is not exactly a shining example of honesty and benevolence, and I take anything he and the Turkish government / media says with a huge grain of salt as well.

Hell I can think of reasons why Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Trump would want this guy dead (not to mention other countries possibly standing to benefit from the controversy), so it might be more along the lines of "who beat the others to the punch?"

Saudi Arabia is naturally prime suspect; however I'm not entirely sure they are the only suspect, at least at the moment.

Not to dismiss all of the atrocities they have committed and the US indulgence in it of course.
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