New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

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tezunegari
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by tezunegari » 2018-06-27 05:33pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2018-06-27 12:51am
Discovery is easy to deal with. It's a prequel, but has never been mentioned in any episode set after its time period. Which means there is some reason why nobody talks about it. As for why, that's up to the writers of the prequel to figure out. So just avoid any situation where the spore drive might be useful and put the rest of the responsibility for continuity on the Discovery writers.
The problem is that the Spore Drive is effectively God tech that solves nearly every problem related to travel.
It allows a ship to travel 90 Lightyears in 1.3 seconds.

There are no situations where it wouldn't be useful.
And the problem is not that it doesn't work... they made it work in Discovery.

The problem is that the two possible solutions they had at the time, either enslaving a sentient lifeform or genetically augmenting a human without knowing the longterm consequences are both illegal.
Hell, they even give a possible, but at the time unfeasible solution: an emulated tardigrade brain.
And I think that only failed because they do not understand how the tardigrade navigates the Spore network and/or the computer technology is not powerful enough yet to do the emulating.

It's possible that the writers could just declare the Spore Drive Project was classified on the same level as Omega considering that misuse could lead to the annihilation of all life in the galaxy if Spore-Culber is to be believed.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-06-28 12:56am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-06-27 05:00pm
Again, I feel that there's potential to adopt some stuff from Star Trek Online here. And incidentally, make the Romulan Republic canon. :D
I can see the Federation helping the Romulans form a stable government, and "Romulan Republic" is a good a name as any. Then the Federation would try to convince the Romulans to join up, just like their plan for Bajor. Chances are, the Romulans have made a lot of enemies. Enough that they might need the protection that comes with being Federation members.

Plus it brings reunification between Vulcans and Romulans closer.
tezunegari wrote:
2018-06-27 05:33pm
The problem is that the Spore Drive is effectively God tech that solves nearly every problem related to travel.
It allows a ship to travel 90 Lightyears in 1.3 seconds.

There are no situations where it wouldn't be useful.
And the problem is not that it doesn't work... they made it work in Discovery.
Good point. So lean heavily on putting the responsibility of explaining any conflicts STD causes on the writers who made them in the first place. Just make sure you don't create any conflicts between STD and this new show that aren't also conflicts between STD and a previous Trek series.
It's possible that the writers could just declare the Spore Drive Project was classified on the same level as Omega considering that misuse could lead to the annihilation of all life in the galaxy if Spore-Culber is to be believed.
Lets just classify a project and claim that the Klingons will keep it secret :roll:

I could see the STD writers trying that if they ever get convinced to care about continuity.

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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-06-28 12:44pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2018-06-28 12:56am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-06-27 05:00pm
Again, I feel that there's potential to adopt some stuff from Star Trek Online here. And incidentally, make the Romulan Republic canon. :D
I can see the Federation helping the Romulans form a stable government, and "Romulan Republic" is a good a name as any. Then the Federation would try to convince the Romulans to join up, just like their plan for Bajor. Chances are, the Romulans have made a lot of enemies. Enough that they might need the protection that comes with being Federation members.

Plus it brings reunification between Vulcans and Romulans closer.
The Federation trying to rebuild/integrate Romulan society would create a lot of potential for DS9-style spy plot-lines, difficult moral dilemmas, and commentary on current issues surrounding nation-building and immigrants/refugees. It could go very well, or very badly, depending on whether they have good writers who understand Trek's ideals and how to convey them without being ham-fisted about it, or clumsy hacks/grimdark fanboys.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Q99 » 2018-06-28 01:40pm

tezunegari wrote:
2018-06-27 05:33pm
bilateralrope wrote:
2018-06-27 12:51am
Discovery is easy to deal with. It's a prequel, but has never been mentioned in any episode set after its time period. Which means there is some reason why nobody talks about it. As for why, that's up to the writers of the prequel to figure out. So just avoid any situation where the spore drive might be useful and put the rest of the responsibility for continuity on the Discovery writers.
The problem is that the Spore Drive is effectively God tech that solves nearly every problem related to travel.
It allows a ship to travel 90 Lightyears in 1.3 seconds.

There are no situations where it wouldn't be useful.
And the problem is not that it doesn't work... they made it work in Discovery.

The problem is that the two possible solutions they had at the time, either enslaving a sentient lifeform or genetically augmenting a human without knowing the longterm consequences are both illegal.
Hell, they even give a possible, but at the time unfeasible solution: an emulated tardigrade brain.
And I think that only failed because they do not understand how the tardigrade navigates the Spore network and/or the computer technology is not powerful enough yet to do the emulating.

It's possible that the writers could just declare the Spore Drive Project was classified on the same level as Omega considering that misuse could lead to the annihilation of all life in the galaxy if Spore-Culber is to be believed.
Frankly, discontinuity it. The Klingon culture doesn't fit either, and the Spore-Drive fits in with the movie timeline's super-long-range-transporter in "techs that break the setting."

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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by DesertFly » 2018-06-28 02:35pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:One benefit of alien characters, the ones that used heavy makeup anyway, is that it's easy enough to hide aging. Michael Dorn still looks pretty good, and there's so much rubber on a Ferengi that you probably wouldn't see much change on Armin Shimerman, for example. Human-norm characters would be much harder to pull that off though. Like Data... I'd love to see Data, but Brent Spiner doesn't look much like he used to. Worse actually than Robert Picardo (in terms of general wear and tear, not 'man he looks terrible').

The Doctor is an easy enough explanation though-- 'oh I'm trying out this human thing of aging, I look dignified don't I? Is twenty-some years about right?" Insert gag of him aging/de-aging excessively.
Most characters, you can just say they've aged if you set it late enough after Nemesis/Voyager. Data is trickiest, yes.
Here is where I have to come in with my useless knowledge of Trek minutiae. In an episode of TNG (I had to look it up, but I believe it's "Inheritance", where he meets his mother), it's explained that Soong put an aging program into Data so that he would look older as time went on. Clearly that was written in specifically so the people making the show could explain away the fact that Brent Spiner ages. Of course, the original Data body is gone, so who knows if those "features" were included in B-4 (ugh).
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-06-28 04:33pm

DesertFly wrote:
2018-06-28 02:35pm
Here is where I have to come in with my useless knowledge of Trek minutiae. In an episode of TNG (I had to look it up, but I believe it's "Inheritance", where he meets his mother), it's explained that Soong put an aging program into Data so that he would look older as time went on. Clearly that was written in specifically so the people making the show could explain away the fact that Brent Spiner ages. Of course, the original Data body is gone, so who knows if those "features" were included in B-4 (ugh).
While convenient:

All Good Things is in 2395. TNG ended in 2370. 25 years down the road, Data looks identical to how he did on the Enterprise-D, silly skunk-stripe in his hair notwithstanding? (unless you want to play with the notion that Q foresaw him replacing his body with B-4's... which isn't impossible... but unlikely)

While an aging program could be played with, and I have no doubt that they could do great things with makeup to Brent Spiner, I'm just not sure the audience would necessarily buy it. Plus, makeup or no, Spiner is noticeably heavier; this was evident even in Insurrection and Nemesis, and it's like... sixteen? years later now. Do androids gain weight? Is he the sort of actor to go on a kale-juice-and-Ironman-jogs regimen for a few episodes of television?
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Batman » 2018-06-28 05:28pm

Also, the silly skunk stripes were something Data did on purpose, not the result of his aging program. His housemaid asked Picard to tell him to undo it because it looked silly.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-06-28 05:51pm

Batman wrote:
2018-06-28 05:28pm
Also, the silly skunk stripes were something Data did on purpose, not the result of his aging program. His housemaid asked Picard to tell him to undo it because it looked silly.
Data certainly seems capable of altering his appearance to a fair extent; he sprang a beard literally overnight in one episode IIRC (it looked pretty stupid). I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into an aging program, unless it's hard-encoded into his systems.

Image

Image

That's from TNG to Nemesis. While some parts of his appearance look pretty much the same (the skin and hair) there are noticeable changes.

Image

Yeah... I'm not sure how successful that could be.

Now if they wanted to spend the money? I'm certain they could probably pull it off with some sort of digital replacement a la Tarkin/Leia from Rogue One, with Spiner providing the voice.

Picardo on the other hand... doesn't look THAT different.

Image

Image

For added yuks, here's Picardo in his youth:

Image
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-06-28 05:56pm

Thinking about it: All Good Things, while plausible at the time, was a fantasy by Q, who was-- contrary to claims-- not omniscient. He may well not have known about Data's aging program.

So it may be that an external change in appearance *is* the aging program in action, and Data simply ages a little differently to Noonien Soong, who leaned towards 'puckish' more than 'put on weight'.

That said, I still don't know how well it could go over, but honestly, it's one of the least things to worry about here.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-06-28 06:01pm

I mean the simplest thing would be not to bring back data or the EMH, that sucks in the sense they are popular characters but again new shows should be built on new characters not dragging back old ones.

Edit: Even easier since Data is dead whatever STO or the Pocket Books say.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-06-28 06:14pm

The main thing about bringing back characters from the previous shows is mostly that with a return of Picard, people would want to see everybody else that they knew and loved. Some are obviously not an option-- Lwaxana Troi for example-- but most of the actors are still around. Hell, even Walter Koenig is still alive IIRC if you really want to throw him into the suggested series about Khan, call back good ol' Wrath of Khan.

In general I do agree that they should build new shows on new characters, that goes without saying, but being able to publicize "in this episode see [Beloved Character] from Star Trek [Show]!" would be cheap but effective advertising and would potentially draw in viewers who might otherwise not care particularly after Discovery screwed the pooch.
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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-07-01 04:15am

As far as I'm concerned, Data is dead and thus should not be bought back. Even if Brent Spiner could pull if off.

For the Doctor, there were episodes involving replacing the EMH with a hologram designed to run permanently. Though he's easier to make work: Upgrade the Doctor into an amorphous CGI thing that makes full use of the flexibility that a hologram allows, instead of being stuck in a human form. Then they only need Picardo to be a voice actor.

In general, I'd say that it's probably better to write a story and then realize that they can use a previous Trek character in place of the one they wrote for the story than to write the story with a specific character in mind. That way they still have a script they can use if the actor becomes unavailable for whatever reason.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-06-28 12:44pm
The Federation trying to rebuild/integrate Romulan society would create a lot of potential for DS9-style spy plot-lines, difficult moral dilemmas, and commentary on current issues surrounding nation-building and immigrants/refugees. It could go very well, or very badly, depending on whether they have good writers who understand Trek's ideals and how to convey them without being ham-fisted about it, or clumsy hacks/grimdark fanboys.
I hadn't even thought about it being an analogy to current issues. Though that would make the story even more fitting for a Trek story, if it's down well.

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Re: New CBS deal, Multiple Trek Show Rumors

Post by Q99 » 2018-07-01 05:36am

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-06-28 05:56pm
Thinking about it: All Good Things, while plausible at the time, was a fantasy by Q, who was-- contrary to claims-- not omniscient. He may well not have known about Data's aging program.

So it may be that an external change in appearance *is* the aging program in action, and Data simply ages a little differently to Noonien Soong, who leaned towards 'puckish' more than 'put on weight'.

That said, I still don't know how well it could go over, but honestly, it's one of the least things to worry about here.
AGT wasn't a Q-constructed world, but rather an alt timeline made due to Q meddling. That said, Data could've simply decided to roll back his looks or such.

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