Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

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Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Bedlam » 2018-06-10 11:11am

I just got back from watching the film and I suppose it's not that bad of an action / adventure / thriller story as these things go but most off what happens just seems so stupid!

As usually shown in film lava has no effect on you unless you directly touch it, in fact large drops fall onto a dino and it apparenyly doesn't even burn it, it's just a momentary distraction.

Two people are locked in a room trying to get out and don't notice there is a ladder leading into the roof until they're being threatened by a dino.

I may misunderstand the argument but it seems to be put forwards that there is some law requirement engagered species to be saved if they're threatened by a natural disaster. I'm certain this is not the case.

The cover story about trying to stop the dino's going extinct, by saving species with only one member. They're already functionally extinct unless someone makes more.

Blue is no apparently some uniquely empathic dino with no explanation as to why she's different from any other raptor.

From the signage on the tanks apparently helium is a flammable gas.

I've never understood why a dinosaur is suposed to be such an amazing weapon. What can they do that any other method can't? The only thing I can think of is track by scent. They have a dino trained to kill someone who you shine a laser pointer on and make a noise, if you can shine a laser pointer on them then you can just shoot them!

The dino's being released into the wild is treated as a huge event when most of them are going to be dead soon from not being in any way adapted to their enviroment and in several cases being the only member of their species.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Tribble » 2018-06-10 03:55pm

Wait... there never was a viable population to begin with, right? Since they were all grown in a lab? These aren't real dinosaurs, they're just genetic experiments gone awry. They were never going to survive long term even if their island didn't blow up. In fact, their island probably wouldn't be to support a dino population that size for long unless it was getting food imports (which was mentioned in the novels). So, what's the point of saving them? If they still want dinos for reasons, why not just grow them somewhere else? Is Site B still around?

Is Murdersaurus-Rex of whatever that mashed-up hybrid is called in this movie? I kinda liked it, it had spunk. :P
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Q99 » 2018-06-10 04:03pm

Bedlam wrote: The cover story about trying to stop the dino's going extinct, by saving species with only one member. They're already functionally extinct unless someone makes more.
Also? Dino cloning technology exists and samples of everything is already out there! That's why we have dinosaurs!
Tribble wrote:Wait... there never was a viable population to begin with, right?
Right, they were supposed to not-breed and rely entirely on artificially born populations to begin with.

Them breeding did happen anyway in the first-second-third movie, but, like the entire point is 'all dinos are ones we make so we have a controlled pop.'

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Tribble » 2018-06-10 04:07pm

And originally they had the lysine deficiency which would eventually kill them all, but I guess that plot point was dropped.

What about the Fiendish Doctor Wu, whom we last saw escaping with a bunch of DNA samples?
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Bedlam » 2018-06-10 05:22pm

There are signs they can breed, there appears to be a Stegosaurs calf in some of the scenes hanging out with it's mother. Given this is three years after the original film and the island has been abandoned since unless they grow slowly it has to have been born since the first film.

The Doctor does make an appearance although it's not a big role, he argues against selling the new prototype murdersaurus gets knocked out by one of our protagonists and dragged off by some of the guard / mercenaries so he'll probably turn up again in the next film.

The latest incarnation of the Murdersaurus is a hybrid of the original and raptors so it's smaller and smart enough to play possum.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by tezunegari » 2018-06-11 01:58am

Tribble wrote:
2018-06-10 04:07pm
And originally they had the lysine deficiency which would eventually kill them all, but I guess that plot point was dropped.

What about the Fiendish Doctor Wu, whom we last saw escaping with a bunch of DNA samples?
The Telltale Game explained how the lysine deficiency stopped Working in the Original island. One of the researchers behind the project undid the modification because she had grown emotionally attached to the creatures to the point of endandering the other characters in the Story. She was eaten by a mosasaur or something similar.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-06-12 12:42am

Tribble wrote:
2018-06-10 03:55pm
Wait... there never was a viable population to begin with, right? Since they were all grown in a lab? These aren't real dinosaurs, they're just genetic experiments gone awry. They were never going to survive long term even if their island didn't blow up.
Their not being "real" dinosaurs doesn't preclude them being able to breed and feed themselves. In fact, we have confirmation in the older films that the raptors, at least, can breed (the raptor eggs from Jurassic Park III).
In fact, their island probably wouldn't be to support a dino population that size for long unless it was getting food imports (which was mentioned in the novels). So, what's the point of saving them?
Ecology/scientific research, I presume.
If they still want dinos for reasons, why not just grow them somewhere else? Is Site B still around?
That would be an option, yes, though there may not be anyone willing to invest sufficient capital to breed more of them, after the last cluster fucks? At least that's my thinking.
Is Murdersaurus-Rex of whatever that mashed-up hybrid is called in this movie? I kinda liked it, it had spunk. :P
I didn't. I mean, it was a formidable antagonist, so in that sense I guess it worked, but there are enough awesome real dinosaurs they haven't used without adding more blatantly mutant frankendinosaurs.
Bedlam wrote:
2018-06-10 05:22pm
The Doctor does make an appearance
When I read this, for a moment, I thought you were talking about a really awesome crossover. :D
The latest incarnation of the Murdersaurus is a hybrid of the original and raptors so it's smaller and smart enough to play possum.
Does it still have the cloaking device feature? And the last one was already part-raptor IIRC, and smart enough to fake a cage break-out to lure people in/get the gates open.

I guess smaller makes sense if they want to weaponize it in large numbers. Probably more mobile, and costs less to feed/less space to maintain. That said, still stupid. Building monsters is a waste of time in light of what modern weapons can do, and they aren't as easily-controlled as modern weapons either.

My guess is that this was something pushed by lobbyists, or by some Congressmembers in districts where genetic engineering employs a lot of people. There isn't a pragmatic defense argument for it.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-13 11:36am

There's only one thing I want to know: Does the Rex die?
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Khaat » 2018-06-13 12:21pm

tezunegari wrote:
2018-06-11 01:58am
Tribble wrote:
2018-06-10 04:07pm
And originally they had the lysine deficiency which would eventually kill them all, but I guess that plot point was dropped.

What about the Fiendish Doctor Wu, whom we last saw escaping with a bunch of DNA samples?
The Telltale Game explained how the lysine deficiency stopped Working in the Original island. One of the researchers behind the project undid the modification because she had grown emotionally attached to the creatures to the point of endandering the other characters in the Story. She was eaten by a mosasaur or something similar.
By contrast, JPII had Dr. Harding explain it that the herbivores were eating lysine-rich foods "and carnivores, well, they eat the herbivores..."
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Bedlam » 2018-06-13 01:38pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2018-06-13 11:36am
There's only one thing I want to know: Does the Rex die?
Rexie is still going strong, although she doesn't get that big of a role this time.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-13 04:12pm

Khaat wrote:
2018-06-13 12:21pm
By contrast, JPII had Dr. Harding explain it that the herbivores were eating lysine-rich foods "and carnivores, well, they eat the herbivores..."
Honestly, I think the JP films have as much overall continuity now as the classic Universal Monster Movies.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Anacronian » 2018-06-15 03:47am

So is the Deus Rex Machina a thing in this one as well?
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Bedlam » 2018-06-15 01:38pm

Anacronian wrote:
2018-06-15 03:47am
So is the Deus Rex Machina a thing in this one as well?
Yes an no, Rexy does save the party from another carnivore half way though and pops up at the end to kill of the human villain but in the second case he wasn't actually a threat to anyone at the time.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Solauren » 2018-06-15 09:10pm

I think the JW Dinos are implied to be a new generation (for the most part) and may not be Lysine deficient. They had the remote kill tech in them as an option, after all.

In theory, it should be easy to roundup the dinos implanted before the park fell.

The issue will be the ones that were NOT implanted. (i.e Born after the park fell)
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-15 11:48pm

Solauren wrote:
2018-06-15 09:10pm
I think the JW Dinos are implied to be a new generation (for the most part) and may not be Lysine deficient. They had the remote kill tech in them as an option, after all.

In theory, it should be easy to roundup the dinos implanted before the park fell.

The issue will be the ones that were NOT implanted. (i.e Born after the park fell)
The Rex, at least, is the original from the first park. They even gave her scars from her raptor fight at the end of the movie.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-06-16 08:06pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2018-06-15 11:48pm
Solauren wrote:
2018-06-15 09:10pm
I think the JW Dinos are implied to be a new generation (for the most part) and may not be Lysine deficient. They had the remote kill tech in them as an option, after all.

In theory, it should be easy to roundup the dinos implanted before the park fell.

The issue will be the ones that were NOT implanted. (i.e Born after the park fell)
The Rex, at least, is the original from the first park. They even gave her scars from her raptor fight at the end of the movie.
I have wondered if Rexy is the baby from JPII, due to the timeline.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-22 10:54pm

Just got back from seeing it and, yeah, it's dumb fun.

A decent actioner with B-Movie aspirations. Some evocative moments, but a major plot point is based on a continuity hiccup (there are two islands!). The characters work but are simple. To the point where for the first time in the franchise history the main antagonists are on the level of Captain Planet villains.

But I still had a good time. It kept my attention, flowed well, and made the dinosaurs the main stars. I mean, one even gets main character status as far as the narrative is concerned.

And what I really like is the neat worldbuilding they did, playing out the implications of the technology and living up to its new title.

Those things:

One of Hammond's old business partners used the technology to bring back his dead daughter. Given her age, the timeline for it is a little wonky, but the idea of it is perfectly done otherwise.

The dinosaurs are off the island an in the world, not just as gene samples sold to the highest bitter, but out in the wild of California of all places. And I mean quite a lot of them. They aimed for 11, but at least a few more by my count.

From what I remember, they released/saved:
1. The Mosasaur (by accident) - gets a good showing in the opening, and later on.
2. Pteranodons - a cameo overall.
3. Velociraptor (Blue) - She's now a main character
4. Tyrannosaurus (Rexy) - Everyone loves Rexy
5. Carnotaurus - Glad to see the Abelisaurid. I think they even got the arms right this time. Also, the Rex bullies them.
6. Allosaurus - I like to think they were blue as an homage to Gwangi.
7. Compsognathus - Always popping up.
8. Galimumus - They really got to show off how big they were.
9. Apatosaurus - Glad to see some survived the Indominus.
10. Sinoceratops - A weird one to include, but gets a nice fight scene with a Carnotaurus.
11. Triceratops - A mother and baby are kept together in a cage for maximum tearjerking.
12. Ankylosaurus - Background, mostly.
13. Stegosaurus - totally background.
14. Parasaurolophus - totally background.
15. Stygymoloch - GREAT showing for this animal.

They may have saved some Brachiosaurs, but I didn't catch 'em. Though one being enveloped by pyroclastic flow was an honest to goodness tearjerker from me.

There was less outward misogyny than the last time, thankfully, so it's definitely an improvement over the first.

But the characters are simple, some flat and cartoonish, so that does bring it down.

My only other complaint would be "Not enough rich people were eaten."

Also, I suspect that if there is a sequel, the Rex and Blue may have nests via Parthenogenesis. Because why not?

But now that these animals are in the world, what's going to happen? I can imagine most heading south rather quickly to deal with winters (even mild California ones).

Though they could change their scales back to feathers and survive winters that way.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by ray245 » 2018-06-22 11:15pm

I'm a little uncomfortable with the glee the movie has when it comes to killing people.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-22 11:51pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-06-22 11:15pm
I'm a little uncomfortable with the glee the movie has when it comes to killing people.
Most of them were designated asshole victims (IE: people interested in weaponizing dinosaurs, using them as source beds for pharmacology research, hunt for sport, or god knows what else) or mercenaries. In PG-13 films, killing them is as morally free as killing robot minions.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by ray245 » 2018-06-22 11:58pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2018-06-22 11:51pm
Most of them were designated asshole victims (IE: people interested in weaponizing dinosaurs, using them as source beds for pharmacology research, hunt for sport, or god knows what else) or mercenaries. In PG-13 films, killing them is as morally free as killing robot minions.
It's the killing them with the sense of glee that makes it a little cartoonish for me. I've never liked movies that trivialise deaths in general, regardless of whether the characters are "good" or "bad" people.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-23 12:40am

ray245 wrote:
2018-06-22 11:58pm
It's the killing them with the sense of glee that makes it a little cartoonish for me. I've never liked movies that trivialise deaths in general, regardless of whether the characters are "good" or "bad" people.
I think the big game hunter pulling out teeth from all the dinosaurs he caught for a necklace was a big tip that things were getting cartoonish.

Like I said, that guy is straight out of a Captain Planet episode.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Tribble » 2018-06-23 09:36am

So I guess the dilophosaurus didn't make it?

When was the last time we saw one? When the young one was munching on Nedry in the Jeep?
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Solauren » 2018-06-23 06:01pm

Dealing with the dinosaurs shouldn't be to difficult on land. After all, a helicopter gunship nearly took down the I.Rex (stupid aviary!)

The larger one would be easy to track via satelite. If they can't be captured and relocated to a Sanctuary (i.e Site B), worse case is radio detonated claymores under them as they walk.

The smaller ones, however, could be a problem to track and deal with. Compy's might replace Racoons as the annoying urban pest.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-06-23 11:13pm

Solauren wrote:
2018-06-23 06:01pm
The smaller ones, however, could be a problem to track and deal with. Compy's might replace Racoons as the annoying urban pest.
A pest which will attack and kill the young and the elderly.

In the original Novel, they got on the mainland and attacked sleeping babies.
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Re: Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (spoilers)

Post by Rhadamantus » 2018-06-23 11:56pm

Enjoyable enough movie, but some pretty gaping plot holes.

1: Why did they take all of those massive animals off the island when they had DNA samples? There's no way it was cheap to do that, and it seems pointless.

2: How the hell can the Indoraptor do a pullup? The thing should not have that much upper body strength.

3: The whole releasing the Dinos in the wild was actively nonsensical. They're all individual animals of their species, so it's functionally extinct already. They play no role in the ecosystem, and most of them are active threats to human life. Any sane government is going to recapture them or kill them, and even if they were left in nature they couldn't survive or reproduce. Meanwhile, they still should have all of the DNA, so the individual animals dying in captivity is better than letting them loose to run around killing people.
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